Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:54 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: cautious than we need to be. Why do we consider what's written on a street sign to be a fact, but the same words written on a map to be copyrightable? And many similar examples. A map is a collection of facts, which may or may not be copyrightable depending on the jurisdiction, but a single fact most likely can't be protected by copyright, although the sign itself might be due to artistic flare of the designer etc etc etc. I said what's written. Obviously an artistic picture on a sign would be copyrightable, just as it would be copyrightable anywhere else. ffs. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:54 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: cautious than we need to be. Why do we consider what's written on a street sign to be a fact, but the same words written on a map to be copyrightable? And many similar examples. A map is a collection of facts, which may or may not be copyrightable depending on the jurisdiction, but a single fact most likely can't be protected by copyright, although the sign itself might be due to artistic flare of the designer etc etc etc. Even if the collection is copyrighted, that does not make its elements copyrighted. What is copyrighted in the case of such a collection, is the (result of) the selection process that decides which facts are and are not included. -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On 5/17/10 5:38 AM, Andre Engels wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:54 AM, John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: cautious than we need to be. Why do we consider what's written on a street sign to be a fact, but the same words written on a map to be copyrightable? And many similar examples. A map is a collection of facts, which may or may not be copyrightable depending on the jurisdiction, but a single fact most likely can't be protected by copyright, although the sign itself might be due to artistic flare of the designer etc etc etc. Even if the collection is copyrighted, that does not make its elements copyrighted. What is copyrighted in the case of such a collection, is the (result of) the selection process that decides which facts are and are not included. the other issue, of course, is when the map contains mistakes, which may be intentional on the part of the map maker. in this latter case, they are likely there to create the copyright claim. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On 17 May 2010 21:00, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: the other issue, of course, is when the map contains mistakes, which may be intentional on the part of the map maker. in this latter case, they are likely there to create the copyright claim. Again, it depends on the jurisdiction, from memory mistakes, intentional or otherwise aren't copyrightable in the US. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: the other issue, of course, is when the map contains mistakes, which may be intentional on the part of the map maker. And then what about when the map mistakes become the commonly accepted name of the road, and then wind up going on the signs? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On 17 May 2010 01:59, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote: Then again, the boards usually also come from local government. Most signs are contracted out to sign companies, the local governments here don't do them directly. That doesn't matter for OSM. All things are copyrighted, you said it yourself. Whether it's fact or knowledge doesn't matter. I think you are confusing me with someone else. As for if it matters about facts and knowledge, if you know a street is called by a certain name you aren't copying from anything, so the question is, at what point does a fact become knowledge. Also individual facts in most countries can't be copyrighted, only compilations of facts are generally covered by copyright if sweat of the brow is considered copyrightable. Sweat of the brow isn't what copyright was originally intended for, which was protecting artistic compilations, and most courts are coming to this conclusion as well. It's only when there has also been some artistic interpretation of the facts that it can be copyrighted, but even then it's uncertain if the fact itself is protected, this is why the database directive and other similar laws have been enacted to protect sweat of the brow efforts. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
2010/5/16 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: That doesn't matter for OSM. All things are copyrighted, you said it yourself. Whether it's fact or knowledge doesn't matter. no, you can't put copyright on facts. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote: That doesn't matter for OSM. All things are copyrighted, you said it yourself. Whether it's fact or knowledge doesn't matter. Copyright protects the expression of ideas - not knowledge, or facts. I'll stop there and repeat a previous request for an actual copyright lawyer to provide us some advice on where the line is. IMHO we're more cautious than we need to be. Why do we consider what's written on a street sign to be a fact, but the same words written on a map to be copyrightable? And many similar examples. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On 17 May 2010 15:02, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I'll stop there and repeat a previous request for an actual copyright lawyer to provide us some advice on where the line is. IMHO we're more For which jurisdiction, copyright law has been shaped not only by laws in various jurisdictions but also by precedents that apply in those jurisdictions. cautious than we need to be. Why do we consider what's written on a street sign to be a fact, but the same words written on a map to be copyrightable? And many similar examples. A map is a collection of facts, which may or may not be copyrightable depending on the jurisdiction, but a single fact most likely can't be protected by copyright, although the sign itself might be due to artistic flare of the designer etc etc etc. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Roadside maps
Is it OK to use information you find on map-signs next to streets or suburban areas? Usually they show the houses and street names in a certain area (residential or commercial most often). None I have found have ever had any sort of copyright text on them. -- Sasq ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
2010/5/15 Jonas Minnberg sas...@gmail.com: Is it OK to use information you find on map-signs next to streets or suburban areas? Usually they show the houses and street names in a certain area (residential or commercial most often). None I have found have ever had any sort of copyright text on them. If you don't copy them systematically ;-) Facts are free, collected facts are not in Europe (database directive). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
2010/5/15 Jonas Minnberg sas...@gmail.com: Is it OK to use information you find on map-signs next to streets or suburban areas? I think it depends. IMO you should check FOP in your country (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Freedom_of_panorama). 2010/5/15 Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net: Why not walk / cycle / drive around and actually find out for yourself? You will gain so much more info that way and be much more likely to gather the real picture. +1, accuracy is really low in most of cases. Regards, Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Roadside maps
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: AFAIK everything that is written down is copyright. that is a peculiarity of (relatively) recent 'reforms' in the US Code (which made registration and even proper marking optional), it is not universal. IANAL -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
