Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-07-04 2:38 GMT+02:00 John Willis :

> This particular question (how to add cycle rental to a tourist information
> office) is a symptom of a larger tagging issue in OSM - you can’t add
> multiple amenities/services that are not mappable features to most mappable
> places.



because an amenity=* is usually read as feature that is characterized / of
category *

For services offered, you need a property-like tagging scheme.

For rental this was already discussed in the past. There's also
documentation:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:service:bicycle:rental

No idea why there's a "service" prefixed, but that's the way the tag is
documented and used.



> we can map the services as stand-alonse shops,



actually with amenity=* we don't map a service, we map a feature. Provided
"services" should be mapped as properties.


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[John Willis]

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 7:13 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> We do have tourism information centres, where they hold stocks of brochures 
> etc telling tourists what attractions there are in the area,

Our local tourism office operates out of the train station,
http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_10203ga3552079801/kuchikomi/ 
 

 it sells a lot of food and souvenirs of local goods, and has brochures, sells 
local goods, offers hiking maps from the station, and offers cycle rentals to 
tourism visitors. 

if I were to tag it (I should go do that), it would be as shop=gifts and 
tourism=information. I don’t know how I would put cycle rental in there. 

http://www.kiryu-walker.net/bicycle.html 
 

wouldn’t the "cycle rental shop" then be operator=[tourist shop], or would we 
treat it as an amenity offered, like a gym or sauna at a hotel? if it is 
amenity, how do you add all the other amenities at a big place with a single 
name and single landuse? 

This particular question (how to add cycle rental to a tourist information 
office) is a symptom of a larger tagging issue in OSM - you can’t add multiple 
amenities/services that are not mappable features to most mappable places. we 
can map the services as stand-alonse shops, and we can add unmappable 
information about the thing (like times, addresses, access, etc), but we can’t 
link a service or (unmampable location inside a single building) as an 
“amenity” offered by the larger mappable location easily. If there is such a 
way, It is not obvious. 

as an example: 
Most large hot spring resorts (onsens) have cafes or shops or massage parlors 
or a gym or a restaurant inside - how do you say “this resort has a cafe 
inside” and "this one has a massage service” - putting shop +operator tags all 
over a building seems weird and we can’t list out multiple amenities either. 
people have to assume services offered, which is really problematic - as 
smaller onsens out in the countryside have little-to-no additional services. I 
don’t want the cafe to come up when I search for cafes, and I want to see that 
the the cafe is available when I look for information about the onsen. 

there should be an easy way to say  “this shop=* is an amenity offered by a 
facility, and not a stand-alone shop” without resorting to amenity tags. 

perhaps shop:amenity=* on a pin &  the operator=the name of the enclosing 
business, or a relation (which I don’t know how they work at all). this would 
let the pin hold all the information about the service (operating times, phone 
numbers, access) and link it back to the operating business AND take it out of 
the shop=* space, so it doesn’t show up when searching. 

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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-06-30 10:14 GMT+02:00 Javier Sánchez Portero :

> The services offered are very similar to a travel agency, but for local
> services instead of remote ones. Maybe shop=tourism_agency?



+1, sounds like a proposal that might work (around here, most of these
could also be seen as bikerentals with additional services). Also
tourism=information might be OK, although it is in some places seen as an
"official" service (by the municipality or similar).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Javier Sánchez Portero]

The services offered are very similar to a travel agency, but for local
services instead of remote ones. Maybe shop=tourism_agency?

2017-06-29 23:13 GMT+01:00 Graeme Fitzpatrick :

> I won't disagree with you about shop=tourism as no, I've never heard of a
> tourism shop either (& we live in a tourist-oriented area)!
>
> Maybe it's another term that doesn't translate internationally, but here
> in Australia at least, "travel agencies" don't handle day-to-day tourist
> matters like boat rides, walking tours etc either. Travel agencies are
> where you sit down with a travel agent a few months prior to leaving on
> your trip, to plan your itinerary, work out which flights you need to catch
> & book them, book your cabin on a cruise ship etc.
>
> We do have tourism information centres, where they hold stocks of
> brochures etc telling tourists what attractions there are in the area, what
> the opening hours of the local museum are & so on, but, once again, they
> don't usually book ferry rides, tours & so on - that's left up to the
> tourist to do either online or by phone?
>
> I don't know what you would call the type of "shop" that Volker originally
> described, but maybe tourism=information woud cover it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On 30 June 2017 at 01:09, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> On 28. Jun 2017, at 23:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>> There is a tag for bicycle rental: http://wiki.openstreet
>> map.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_rental.
>>
>>
>>
>> +1, although this will probably not lead to a compatibile tagging scheme,
>> because I'd expect many of the things in the amenity key .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe just shop=tourism together with that?
>>
>>
>>
>> don't like this tag, IMHO too generic, not well distinguishable from
>> travel agencies, no clear meaning (ever heard someone saying: I'm going to
>> the tourist shop? What would you think if you heard this? I would likely
>> ask 'where?'). It isn't really a category (of what they sell) rather than a
>> category for whom it is (i.e. it can be used to disqualify a shop as
>> "mostly for tourists " (locals who know the situation won't go there), but
>> not to qualify the kind of things they offer).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

I won't disagree with you about shop=tourism as no, I've never heard of a
tourism shop either (& we live in a tourist-oriented area)!

Maybe it's another term that doesn't translate internationally, but here in
Australia at least, "travel agencies" don't handle day-to-day tourist
matters like boat rides, walking tours etc either. Travel agencies are
where you sit down with a travel agent a few months prior to leaving on
your trip, to plan your itinerary, work out which flights you need to catch
& book them, book your cabin on a cruise ship etc.

We do have tourism information centres, where they hold stocks of brochures
etc telling tourists what attractions there are in the area, what the
opening hours of the local museum are & so on, but, once again, they don't
usually book ferry rides, tours & so on - that's left up to the tourist to
do either online or by phone?

I don't know what you would call the type of "shop" that Volker originally
described, but maybe tourism=information woud cover it?

Thanks

Graeme


On 30 June 2017 at 01:09, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 28. Jun 2017, at 23:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
> There is a tag for bicycle rental: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:
> amenity%3Dbicycle_rental.
>
>
>
> +1, although this will probably not lead to a compatibile tagging scheme,
> because I'd expect many of the things in the amenity key .
>
>
>
>
> Maybe just shop=tourism together with that?
>
>
>
> don't like this tag, IMHO too generic, not well distinguishable from
> travel agencies, no clear meaning (ever heard someone saying: I'm going to
> the tourist shop? What would you think if you heard this? I would likely
> ask 'where?'). It isn't really a category (of what they sell) rather than a
> category for whom it is (i.e. it can be used to disqualify a shop as
> "mostly for tourists " (locals who know the situation won't go there), but
> not to qualify the kind of things they offer).
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 28. Jun 2017, at 23:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> There is a tag for bicycle rental: 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_rental.


+1, although this will probably not lead to a compatibile tagging scheme, 
because I'd expect many of the things in the amenity key .



> 
> Maybe just shop=tourism together with that?


don't like this tag, IMHO too generic, not well distinguishable from travel 
agencies, no clear meaning (ever heard someone saying: I'm going to the tourist 
shop? What would you think if you heard this? I would likely ask 'where?'). It 
isn't really a category (of what they sell) rather than a category for whom it 
is (i.e. it can be used to disqualify a shop as "mostly for tourists " (locals 
who know the situation won't go there), but not to qualify the kind of things 
they offer).

Cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

There is a tag for bicycle rental:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_rental.

Maybe just shop=tourism together with that?

Thanks

Graeme


On 28 June 2017 at 23:03, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> I think you are right on the man tag.
> :-)
> This leaves me still with the tagging of the services offered.
> :-(
>
>
>
>
> On 28 June 2017 at 14:32, Philip Barnes  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 28 June 2017 13:07:49 BST, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>> >I am trying to figure out how to tag the services proved by a (small)
>> >travel agency.
>> >
>> >Example:
>> >https://www.mapillary.com/app/index/voschix?feedItem=user-
>> >qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-activity-user-qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-
>> >publishing_done-image%3A1498267281166&pKey=ihU7yrLTHbgWAVyF
>> TlIpvg&lat=45.
>> >26902948529647&lng=12.30011757853265&z=17&focus=photo&menu=false
>> >
>> >This is a small agency hat offers
>> >
>> >   - rental bikes
>> >   - accommodation on the Island (hotels and b&b)
>> >   - boat excursions
>> >   - walking/bicycle excursions with guide
>> >   - general assistance to walk-n customers like ferry time tables
>> >
>> >I don't think they sell products of the big tour operators
>> >
>> I'm not sure I would call this a travel agent, maybe shop=tourism.
>>
>> Locally we have both, travel agents who sell holidays to local people and
>> tourism places which sell services, such as boat trips to visiting tourists.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Volker Schmidt]

I think you are right on the man tag.
:-)
This leaves me still with the tagging of the services offered.
:-(




On 28 June 2017 at 14:32, Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
>
> On 28 June 2017 13:07:49 BST, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> >I am trying to figure out how to tag the services proved by a (small)
> >travel agency.
> >
> >Example:
> >https://www.mapillary.com/app/index/voschix?feedItem=user-
> >qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-activity-user-qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-
> >publishing_done-image%3A1498267281166&pKey=ihU7yrLTHbgWAVyFTlIpvg&lat=45.
> >26902948529647&lng=12.30011757853265&z=17&focus=photo&menu=false
> >
> >This is a small agency hat offers
> >
> >   - rental bikes
> >   - accommodation on the Island (hotels and b&b)
> >   - boat excursions
> >   - walking/bicycle excursions with guide
> >   - general assistance to walk-n customers like ferry time tables
> >
> >I don't think they sell products of the big tour operators
> >
> I'm not sure I would call this a travel agent, maybe shop=tourism.
>
> Locally we have both, travel agents who sell holidays to local people and
> tourism places which sell services, such as boat trips to visiting tourists.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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Re: [Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Philip Barnes]

On 28 June 2017 13:07:49 BST, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>I am trying to figure out how to tag the services proved by a (small)
>travel agency.
>
>Example:
>https://www.mapillary.com/app/index/voschix?feedItem=user-
>qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-activity-user-qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-
>publishing_done-image%3A1498267281166&pKey=ihU7yrLTHbgWAVyFTlIpvg&lat=45.
>26902948529647&lng=12.30011757853265&z=17&focus=photo&menu=false
>
>This is a small agency hat offers
>
>   - rental bikes
>   - accommodation on the Island (hotels and b&b)
>   - boat excursions
>   - walking/bicycle excursions with guide
>   - general assistance to walk-n customers like ferry time tables
>
>I don't think they sell products of the big tour operators
>
I'm not sure I would call this a travel agent, maybe shop=tourism. 

Locally we have both, travel agents who sell holidays to local people and 
tourism places which sell services, such as boat trips to visiting tourists.

Phil (trigpoint) 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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[Tagging] Services provided by a travel agency

[Volker Schmidt]

I am trying to figure out how to tag the services proved by a (small)
travel agency.

Example:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/index/voschix?feedItem=user-
qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-activity-user-qwbAz1RxsvEw5qGBCZsyAQ-
publishing_done-image%3A1498267281166&pKey=ihU7yrLTHbgWAVyFTlIpvg&lat=45.
26902948529647&lng=12.30011757853265&z=17&focus=photo&menu=false

This is a small agency hat offers

   - rental bikes
   - accommodation on the Island (hotels and b&b)
   - boat excursions
   - walking/bicycle excursions with guide
   - general assistance to walk-n customers like ferry time tables

I don't think they sell products of the big tour operators

Volker
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