Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
Why is it important? The main thing that matters is than only one definition exists for an item, irrespective of how often it is used. A few months ago I looked a TagInfo for tags that people are using but have no Wiki entry. Once you get closer to like 100 uses and below you find a lot of tags that probably only have one definition, but aren't really that great. Like wrong key, bad/not english, used by just a few mappers, maybe local etc. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
On 18.04.2015 09:31, Friedrich Volkmann wrote: So far we have 3 parameters: number of OSM objects, number of real-word objects, number of users. Let's put them into a formula in order to enable objective decisions and avoid edit wars. I don't think it's as easy as that. Other things to consider: - If there is an alternative tagging concept around, then the numbers need to be a lot higher. On the other hand, if a tag is universally considered a good idea, usage numbers don't matter as much. - A tag that is only used in a certain country or region is probably not a defacto standard yet (except for things that exist nowhere else). - Application and/or editor support is important, no tag can be considered fully established without it imo. To be honest, I doubt it's possible to put it into a formula. My personal interpretation of defacto is a tag that is used by a lot of mappers and applications throughout the world, and you can print it on a mug without having to worry that it might be outdated anytime soon. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
Why is it important? The main thing that matters is than only one definition exists for an item, irrespective of how often it is used. On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 5:46 PM Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: On 18.04.2015 09:31, Friedrich Volkmann wrote: So far we have 3 parameters: number of OSM objects, number of real-word objects, number of users. Let's put them into a formula in order to enable objective decisions and avoid edit wars. I don't think it's as easy as that. Other things to consider: - If there is an alternative tagging concept around, then the numbers need to be a lot higher. On the other hand, if a tag is universally considered a good idea, usage numbers don't matter as much. - A tag that is only used in a certain country or region is probably not a defacto standard yet (except for things that exist nowhere else). - Application and/or editor support is important, no tag can be considered fully established without it imo. To be honest, I doubt it's possible to put it into a formula. My personal interpretation of defacto is a tag that is used by a lot of mappers and applications throughout the world, and you can print it on a mug without having to worry that it might be outdated anytime soon. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: I recently came across a never proposed tag with some 600 uses marked de-facto. If that's the way to bypass the proposal process, I will never care about proposals any more. How do you know there was any intent to bypass the proposal process ? Tags can reach widespread use without ever having been discussed or documented. There were no 600 uses when the page was created. Somebody documenting this in a de-facto proposal after the fact is a good thing. Not when I had just started a topic called Status on the discussion page. The user who changed the status to de-facto did not even reply to that topic. And do you think that 600 is de-facto? I will set all the tags I invented to inuse as soon as I used them once, and to defacto as soon as I used them twice, because 2 uses are widespread compared to 1. There's obviously some threshold where it's reasonable. Don't mock using an extreme value, it just devaluates your good argument. As a software developer, I use to consider extreme values. And being somewhat into mathematics, I use to choose the easiest solution for given parameters. So you find the 1 / 2 thresholds too low? That's something to start with. So far we have 3 parameters: number of OSM objects, number of real-word objects, number of users. Let's put them into a formula in order to enable objective decisions and avoid edit wars. -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
On 17/04/2015 14:38, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: A more useful metric is how many different contributors used the tag. Is anyone aware of any analysis of who (or how many users) first used particular tags, or who (or how many users) accepted a tag by making a subsequent change to an object? I've not done any (other than per-tag one-offs) but I'm sure someone somewhere must have done something... Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] inuse, defacto
It will be hard to come up with a number to distinguish between the two. As others have pointed out on this mailing list before, the actual number of items that can be tagged with a certain tag matters. So in case there are only 600 items in the whole world of that thing, it is de-facto. If there are e.g. 1.000.000 such things, it's more inuse than de-facto regards m On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: As you all know, Template:Proposal_Page (used in proposals) has another set of statuses than Template:ValueDescription (used in feature pages). The latter defines: inuse: the feature is in use defacto: the tag is in widespread use, but no formal proposal process has taken place Now that's quite a fuzzy definition. Xxzme already asked for clarification at Template_talk:ValueDescription, but nobody cared to anwer. Please can we define some objective criteria for inuse and defacto? I recently came across a never proposed tag with some 600 uses marked de-facto. If that's the way to bypass the proposal process, I will never care about proposals any more. I will set all the tags I invented to inuse as soon as I used them once, and to defacto as soon as I used them twice, because 2 uses are widespread compared to 1. -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
