Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 23:48, marc marc  wrote:
>
> instead of creating a main tag value for each variety,
> I am as often in favor of dividing things into categories.
> if you are in front of a tank, man_made=tank
> after, you can add (sub)tags describing :
> - if a cover/roof exist or not
> - if its use is storage or an industrial process (e.g. sewage treatment
> plant basin)
> - if the content is clean water, dirty, fuel, corn...
> - if its underground, on the ground or half-half
> - whether it is inside a building or outside
> ...
>

That seems like a good idea to me.

Regards

Markus

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 23:28, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/02/19 07:31, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> > I would have imagined a man_made=storage_tank to be a closed container, and 
> > would rather invent tags for open containers like man_made=slurry_pit,
>
> Too specific. [...]

I agree. Besides, i'd expect a slurry pit to be a hollow like [^1] or
[^2], not an open tank built on the surface like [^3].

[^1]: 
[^2]: 

[^3]: 

Regards

Markus

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[marc marc]

Le 11.02.19 à 00:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick a écrit :
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 08:48, marc marc wrote:
>>  if you are in front of a tank, man_made=tank
> man_made=storage

what value will you use when the tank is made for an industrial
process (e. g. oxygenation in a wastewater treatment plant,
the reactor of a chemical reaction, ...) and not as storage ?
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 08:48, marc marc  wrote:

> if you are in front of a tank, man_made=tank
>

I'd suggest possibly man_made=storage
"type"=tank / silo / bin
 then

> after, you can add (sub)tags describing :
> - if a cover/roof exist or not
> - if its use is storage or an industrial process (e.g. sewage treatment
> plant basin)
> - if the content is clean water, dirty, fuel, corn...
> - if its underground, on the ground or half-half
> - whether it is inside a building or outside
>

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[marc marc]

Le 10.02.19 à 23:27, Warin a écrit :
> On 11/02/19 07:31, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>> On 10. Feb 2019, at 09:45, Markus  wrote:
>>>
>>> According to the wiki, covered=no would signify that the storage tank
>>> isn't covered by something else, not that it isn't closed. Therefore
>>> my suggestion with open_top=yes (or maybe just open=yes).
>>
>> I would have imagined a man_made=storage_tank to be a closed 
>> container, and would rather invent tags for open containers like 
>> man_made=slurry_pit,
> 
> Too specific. What about other open tanks. Perhaps 
> man_made=open_storage_tank?

instead of creating a main tag value for each variety,
I am as often in favor of dividing things into categories.
if you are in front of a tank, man_made=tank
after, you can add (sub)tags describing :
- if a cover/roof exist or not
- if its use is storage or an industrial process (e.g. sewage treatment 
plant basin)
- if the content is clean water, dirty, fuel, corn...
- if its underground, on the ground or half-half
- whether it is inside a building or outside
...

but not a man_made= value for every combinaison of all above.
not a 
man_made=a-blue-semi-underground-concrett-tank-without-roof-but-inside-a-building-used-as
 
an-oxygenation-tank-in-a wastewater-treatment-plant :-)
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Warin]

On 11/02/19 07:31, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone


On 10. Feb 2019, at 09:45, Markus  wrote:

According to the wiki, covered=no would signify that the storage tank
isn't covered by something else, not that it isn't closed. Therefore
my suggestion with open_top=yes (or maybe just open=yes).


I would have imagined a man_made=storage_tank to be a closed container, and 
would rather invent tags for open containers like man_made=slurry_pit,


Too specific. What about other open tanks. Perhaps man_made=open_storage_tank?


or whatever you need, plus in case of water there are already tags for basins 
and reservoirs.


An open water tank is no a basin nor a reservoir.


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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 10. Feb 2019, at 09:45, Markus  wrote:
> 
> According to the wiki, covered=no would signify that the storage tank
> isn't covered by something else, not that it isn't closed. Therefore
> my suggestion with open_top=yes (or maybe just open=yes).


I would have imagined a man_made=storage_tank to be a closed container, and 
would rather invent tags for open containers like man_made=slurry_pit, or 
whatever you need, plus in case of water there are already tags for basins and 
reservoirs.

Cheers, Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 at 23:44, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps use the tag covered=no to signify an uncovered storage tank?

According to the wiki, covered=no would signify that the storage tank
isn't covered by something else, not that it isn't closed. Therefore
my suggestion with open_top=yes (or maybe just open=yes).

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Warin]

On 09/02/19 10:19, Clifford Snow wrote:
I did create new thread about including other features in wastewater 
treatment facilities. Unfortunately I have been side track on other 
issues, not necessarily OSM issue, but life in general.


I do plan to continue exploring how to tag the various features in 
wastewater treatment facilities in the near future.


To the question of "Are storage tanks covered" It might depend on what 
they are used for. I assumed most were covered.


Perhaps use the tag covered=no to signify an uncovered storage tank?


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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

Thanks for your messages and the hint to The Mail Archive!

On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 at 02:05, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
>
> Are you storing solids or liquids?
>
> For solids, bunker_silo (which I have never before heard them referred to 
> as!) may work? 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aman_made%3Dbunker_silo

Liquid manure ... so man_made=bunker_silo doesn't work.

Afaik, liquid manure is either stored in

1. open basins/pits/lagoons
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FYGKGG/slurry-pit-on-cheshire-farm-FYGKGG.jpg)
2. partially or fully covered pits
(http://croomconcrete.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/buildundergroundtab/building-a-large-underground-slurry-tank.jpg)
3. open containers above ground
(http://img.agriexpo.online/images_ag/photo-g/170326-11371047.jpg)
4. closed containers/tanks above ground
(https://www.swarmhub.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Slurry-Storage-option-1-e1540222548914-1024x489.jpg)

For 4., man_made=storage_tank + content=manure seems fine, but there
appears to be no standard tag combination for the other three.

3. looks very similar to 4., therefore man_made=storage_tank +
content=manure + open_top=yes or similar doesn't seem to be
far-fetched. But i were also fine with a new tag, e.g.
man_made=open_container (which possibly could also be used at
wastewater treatment plants).

For 1. and 2. i was thinking of using man_made=basin + content=manure
(+ underground=yes). Or do you have any other ideas?

Btw, i've found building=slurry_tank with 11,250 uses:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dslurry_tank

I've randomly looked at 30 building=slurry_tank objects on aerial
imagery: only 3 were closed containers, the rest were open. I expect
something to have at least walls and a roof to be called a building
(what building=* is used for). If we find a tag for open containers, i
suggest to replace/deprecate building=slurry_tank.

Regards

Markus

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 at 05:07, Markus  wrote:

> If man_made=storage_tank has been used for closed containers, it might be
> better to find another
> tag to not loose that tag's meaning.
>

Are you storing solids or liquids?

For solids, bunker_silo (which I have never before heard them referred to
as!) may work?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aman_made%3Dbunker_silo

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

In my dialect of American English, a tank would normally be fully enclosed,
while an open container for liquids would be a pool or basin or pond?

I’d like to keep “tank” for covered features.
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 8:21 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> I did create new thread about including other features in wastewater
> treatment facilities. Unfortunately I have been side track on other issues,
> not necessarily OSM issue, but life in general.
>
> I do plan to continue exploring how to tag the various features in
> wastewater treatment facilities in the near future.
>
> To the question of "Are storage tanks covered" It might depend on what
> they are used for. I assumed most were covered.
>
> My post was on Wastewater Plants looking to add two features, Clarifiers
> and Digesters. Clarifiers look like a storage tank but may not be covered.
> See https://www.dropbox.com/s/k87y9sf144xxylv/clarifier.png?dl=0. I
> believe clarification can also be done in basins.
>
> Digesters on the other hand appear to be covered.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8jxmgvs8heb314/digester.png?dl=0
>
> For wastewater plants, I'd like to explore how to best tag these features.
> Is it man_made=storage_tank+storage_tank=digester? At this point, I'm not
> sure, first I don't know if it's British English, and second, I don't know
> it digester is a universal term or if there is a better one.
>
> Clarifiers because they can either be in a tank or a basin, how should
> they be tagged? man_made=storage_tank+storage_tank=clarifier or
> basin=clarifier.
>
> The OP asked about slurry storage. I believe they belong in the
> storage_tank category. Which would imply that storage tanks don't need to
> be covered. (But if they aren't, I bet it stinks)
>
> Best,
> Clifford
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 12:33 PM Andrew Davidson 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/2/19 6:05 am, Markus wrote:
>> > On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 18:19, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>> >
>> > However, the question has remained unanswered.
>> >
>> >>   [Talk-de] Klärbecken... (in German :-(  )
>> >
>> > Sorry, but i'm unable to find that thread. Strangely enough, Google
>> > doesn't seem to index everything on lists.openstreetmap.org ...
>>
>>
>> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de=EN=https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg94716.html
>>
>> I find that the search on The Mail Archive works better than Google.
>>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Clifford Snow]

I did create new thread about including other features in wastewater
treatment facilities. Unfortunately I have been side track on other issues,
not necessarily OSM issue, but life in general.

I do plan to continue exploring how to tag the various features in
wastewater treatment facilities in the near future.

To the question of "Are storage tanks covered" It might depend on what they
are used for. I assumed most were covered.

My post was on Wastewater Plants looking to add two features, Clarifiers
and Digesters. Clarifiers look like a storage tank but may not be covered.
See https://www.dropbox.com/s/k87y9sf144xxylv/clarifier.png?dl=0. I believe
clarification can also be done in basins.

Digesters on the other hand appear to be covered.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8jxmgvs8heb314/digester.png?dl=0

For wastewater plants, I'd like to explore how to best tag these features.
Is it man_made=storage_tank+storage_tank=digester? At this point, I'm not
sure, first I don't know if it's British English, and second, I don't know
it digester is a universal term or if there is a better one.

Clarifiers because they can either be in a tank or a basin, how should they
be tagged? man_made=storage_tank+storage_tank=clarifier or basin=clarifier.

The OP asked about slurry storage. I believe they belong in the
storage_tank category. Which would imply that storage tanks don't need to
be covered. (But if they aren't, I bet it stinks)

Best,
Clifford



On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 12:33 PM Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> On 9/2/19 6:05 am, Markus wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 18:19, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> >
> > However, the question has remained unanswered.
> >
> >>   [Talk-de] Klärbecken... (in German :-(  )
> >
> > Sorry, but i'm unable to find that thread. Strangely enough, Google
> > doesn't seem to index everything on lists.openstreetmap.org ...
>
>
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de=EN=https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg94716.html
>
> I find that the search on The Mail Archive works better than Google.
>
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Andrew Davidson]

On 9/2/19 6:05 am, Markus wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 18:19, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

However, the question has remained unanswered.


  [Talk-de] Klärbecken... (in German :-(  )


Sorry, but i'm unable to find that thread. Strangely enough, Google
doesn't seem to index everything on lists.openstreetmap.org ...


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de=EN=https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg94716.html

I find that the search on The Mail Archive works better than Google.

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 18:27, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
> Not sure.  Depends what you mean by "tank." However, there's a problem with 
> the rendering
> of man_made=storage_tank whether or not you consider it must be closed: it 
> renders with the
> symbol for a silo.  Which is very wrong.  Yeah, I know, take it up with 
> carto.  But that problem will
> have some bearing on what we do with the tagging.

It wasn't me who has invented man_made=storage_tank, so my
interpretation doesn't count. :-) And i try to ignore Carto's
interpretation, as it might be wrong too. If man_made=storage_tank has
been used for closed containers, it might be better to find another
tag to not loose that tag's meaning.

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 18:19, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>
>  have the feeling that we have discussed this before. On the fly I find these 
> two hreads:
>
> [Tagging] Wastewater Plants

(After a long search in the archive ...) Apparently it was even me
asking the same question – shame on me!

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-October/040421.html
Full discussion:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-October/thread.html#40340

However, the question has remained unanswered.

>  [Talk-de] Klärbecken... (in German :-(  )

Sorry, but i'm unable to find that thread. Strangely enough, Google
doesn't seem to index everything on lists.openstreetmap.org ...

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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 16:43, Markus  wrote:

Does a man_made=storage_tank need to be closed? Or do we have (or
> require) a tag for open containers, for example open slurry storage
> containers [^1]?
>

Not sure.  Depends what you mean by "tank."  However, there's a problem
with the rendering
of man_made=storage_tank whether or not you consider it must be closed: it
renders with the
symbol for a silo.  Which is very wrong.  Yeah, I know, take it up with
carto.  But that problem will
have some bearing on what we do with the tagging.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Volker Schmidt]

 have the feeling that we have discussed this before. On the fly I find
these two hreads:
[Tagging] Wastewater Plants
 [Talk-de] Klärbecken... (in German :-(  )
Volker



On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 17:43, Markus  wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> Does a man_made=storage_tank need to be closed? Or do we have (or
> require) a tag for open containers, for example open slurry storage
> containers [^1]?
>
> [^1]: <
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Don%27t_jump;_Haddon_House_Farm,_Bakewell_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1264500.jpg
> >
>
> Thanks
>
> Markus
>
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[Tagging] man_made=storage_tank for open containers?

[Markus]

Hi list,

Does a man_made=storage_tank need to be closed? Or do we have (or
require) a tag for open containers, for example open slurry storage
containers [^1]?

[^1]: 


Thanks

Markus

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