Re: [Tagging] traffic_signs: human readable values vs. ISO and law codes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 15. Apr. 2024 um 12:33 Uhr schrieb Greg Troxel :

>
> It seems really obvious that normalized osm words and CC:codepoint are
> different things and belong in different keys.
>


they are both ways to refer to a traffic sign, you do not have to know they
are "CC:codepoint" values, you can just treat them as opaque strings (and
synonyms for normalized osm words where it is the case). If a country
specific maxspeed sign has a specific meaning in this country, the
"normalized osm words" would have to deal with the same issue (there would
have to be a specific normalized osm word for this case).



>
> Part of the point is that renderers (including routing engines) and
> humans want to see a value that can be interpreted regardless of country
> and without having to know that country's laws.
>


traffic signs do not make sense if you do not know the law, they are all
about law. This said, all you need is equivalence lists, this may be
onerous, but it is no different if the CC:codepoint value is tagged with a
specific key like traffic_sign:id or if it is tagged with "traffic_sign".
Either you know what the code stands for, or you cannot use the
information.
Maybe the desire is that people would add both tags, a specific "encoded"
and a generic "human readable" one, but it doesn't seem likely this will
happen, also because we already tag the meaning of the sign with different
tags (not as a sign, but as properties on the road), so the whole point of
tagging signs is not changing the way the data is interpreted, it is a
source why something was mapped as it was mapped, and it is an inventory
where which traffic sign is located.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] traffic_signs: human readable values vs. ISO and law codes

[Greg Troxel]

yo paseopor  writes:

> Well, let's start. As you know there are values in traffic sign key that
> are human readable and others that are the ISO code of the country plus the
> code inside the traffic law of every country (from South Africa to USA). It
> is not a big problem...except they are using the same key.

So it is a big problem!

> Probably human readable values are the future of OSM, because you don't
> know very specific knowledge about that. So a newbey mapper can use iD
> Editor and put a maxspeed traffic sign, or can use hazard from a proposal
> from the wiki.
> But in the other hand major use in traffic_sign key are the legal and
> specific values for each traffic sign (or a combination of that). You can
> use the traffic laws of each country or specific presets, plugins and
> styles to edit them without big difficulty, too.
> What can we do? What value has to prevail in OSM: the specific or the
> verbose? What can we do if we want to maintain both of them?
> What do you think about that? With which tags would you separate that
> values?

It seems really obvious that normalized osm words and CC:codepoint are
different things and belong in different keys.

Part of the point is that renderers (including routing engines) and
humans want to see a value that can be interpreted regardless of country
and without having to know that country's laws.

I consider putting codepoints into traffic_sign abuse, and while the
name doesn't matter, traffic_sign_codepoint= seems reasonable, to make
the point that it is the other kind.

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Re: [Tagging] traffic_signs: human readable values vs. ISO and law codes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 15 Apr 2024, at 07:37, yo paseopor  wrote:
> 
> It is not a big problem...except they are using the same key.


it is not a problem, as long as the values describe a traffic sign. It means 
parsing doesn’t become even slightly more laborious, as a datauser you have to 
parse the values all in one key and not in 2, as you propose, but ultimately 
it’s about the same work, and the same information is given.
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[Tagging] traffic_signs: human readable values vs. ISO and law codes

[yo paseopor]

Well, let's start. As you know there are values in traffic sign key that
are human readable and others that are the ISO code of the country plus the
code inside the traffic law of every country (from South Africa to USA). It
is not a big problem...except they are using the same key.
Probably human readable values are the future of OSM, because you don't
know very specific knowledge about that. So a newbey mapper can use iD
Editor and put a maxspeed traffic sign, or can use hazard from a proposal
from the wiki.
But in the other hand major use in traffic_sign key are the legal and
specific values for each traffic sign (or a combination of that). You can
use the traffic laws of each country or specific presets, plugins and
styles to edit them without big difficulty, too.
What can we do? What value has to prevail in OSM: the specific or the
verbose? What can we do if we want to maintain both of them?
What do you think about that? With which tags would you separate that
values?

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor

PD: same thread here, you can answer wherever you want
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/traffic-signs-human-readable-values-vs-iso-and-law-codes/111821


Libre
de virus.www.avast.com

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