Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 02:43:57PM +0100, althio wrote:
> Richard  wrote:
> > many parking places are fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped 
> > users.
> > How can this be mapped?
> 
> As documented on the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee you
> can use the conditional structure:
> > For example one may use fee:conditional=no @ customers or 
> > fee:conditional=yes @ (08:00-19:00).
> 
> So you can have:
> fee=yes
> fee:conditional=no @ disabled
> 
> and you can find some instances in the database like:
> fee:conditional=yes @ (Mo-Fr 08:00-13:00, 14:30-19:30; PH off); no @ 
> (disabled)
> fee:conditional=no @ Su,PH; no @ disabled; no @ motorcycle; no @ stay<1h

even better solution.. though the other one has been documented in the wiki 
since
a long time. Will document that in addition to the old one - how is the tool 
support
for this kind of conditional expressions?

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[althio]

Richard  wrote:
> many parking places are fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped 
> users.
> How can this be mapped?

As documented on the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee you
can use the conditional structure:
> For example one may use fee:conditional=no @ customers or fee:conditional=yes 
> @ (08:00-19:00).

So you can have:
fee=yes
fee:conditional=no @ disabled

and you can find some instances in the database like:
fee:conditional=yes @ (Mo-Fr 08:00-13:00, 14:30-19:30; PH off); no @ (disabled)
fee:conditional=no @ Su,PH; no @ disabled; no @ motorcycle; no @ stay<1h

-- althio

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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 09:01:02AM +1100, Warin wrote:

> >access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.
> To me that just says disabled have access, nothing about the fee.
> 
> fee:disabled=no might be better???
>  See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:fee#New_values

indeed, that looks like a good solution and I have just documented it 
somewhere:)

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Warin]

On 12/01/19 08:28, Xavier wrote:

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 09:41:13PM +0100, Richard wrote:

looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
How can this be mapped?


If you look into the proposal page from the parking space page on the 
wiki:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space
->
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/parking

It is suggested to use access:disabled=* as a more detailed tag.

So it would seem that one could do:

fee=yes - to cover everyone

and

access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.

To me that just says disabled have access, nothing about the fee.

fee:disabled=no might be better???
 See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:fee#New_values



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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Xavier]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 09:41:13PM +0100, Richard wrote:

looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
How can this be mapped?


If you look into the proposal page from the parking space page on the 
wiki:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space
->
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/parking

It is suggested to use access:disabled=* as a more detailed tag.

So it would seem that one could do:

fee=yes - to cover everyone

and

access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.

might be one way to go.


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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
How can this be mapped?

Richard


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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[PanierAvide]

Le 10/01/2019 à 00:19, Warin a écrit :


No - that is a terrible page.


and the work in progress at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel


Much better .. but unordered.


Hopefully we are using a wiki, this could be improved by anyone for sure ;-)

Regards,

Adrien.


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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Warin]

On 09/01/19 21:06, althio wrote:


On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 at 00:31, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled features,
how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant for 
disabled persons"

Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"?

The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used as 
a good start?

For format and content, as already indicated earlier in this thread, a
good start might be:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Disabilities


No - that is a terrible page.


and the work in progress at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel


Much better .. but unordered.


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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[althio]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 at 00:31, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled 
> features,
> how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant 
> for disabled persons"
>
> Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"?
>
> The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used 
> as a good start?

For format and content, as already indicated earlier in this thread, a
good start might be:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Disabilities
and the work in progress at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel

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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Warin]

On 06/01/19 09:29, Richard wrote:

On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +, Paul Allen wrote:

noticed that there is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disabilities

This could be improved to add more details but I wonder if it would not
become too big? It looks overloaded already now.


Agreed it is overloaded ... and much of it is links to outside of OSMwiki. Not 
much use to an OSM mapper.

The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled features,
how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant for 
disabled persons"

Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"?
And it could start with something like "This page is_only_  to document OSM tags of 
use to map features that provide accessibility for disabled people."

The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used as 
a good start?



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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +, Paul Allen wrote:

noticed that there is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disabilities

This could be improved to add more details but I wonder if it would not 
become too big? It looks overloaded already now.

Richard


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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +, Paul Allen wrote:

> You should bear in mind that requiring a wheelchair is just ONE form of
> disability that merits the
> use of special parking or other facilities.  Which is why many people would
> search for "disabled"
> rather than "wheelchair."  And why parking spaces, at least in the UK, are
> signed as "disabled
> parking" (or "anabl" in Welsh).

yes, a list of synonyms like handicapped and redirects would make things easier 
to find.
Or maybe a handicapped/disabled portal page.

I think many people start searching at the wheelchair page because it is
mentioned in many other wiki pages.

Richard



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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 at 20:42, Richard  wrote:

>
> because "disabled" was not mentioned very prominently in key:wheelchair
> before
> I edited it. Even though I knew "disabled" it is just one of the many
> things
> to try to search for and it simply didn't cross my mind. Btw for a computer
> scientist "disabled" rings the wrong bells.
>

You should bear in mind that requiring a wheelchair is just ONE form of
disability that merits the
use of special parking or other facilities.  Which is why many people would
search for "disabled"
rather than "wheelchair."  And why parking spaces, at least in the UK, are
signed as "disabled
parking" (or "anabl" in Welsh).

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 01:51:51PM +0100, Georg Feddern wrote:
> Am 04.01.2019 um 23:22 schrieb Warin:
> >Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features
> >tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.
> >
> >On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
> >>On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard  >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
> >>for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
> >>
> >>
> 
> Having a main page - and actualize it - is a really kind service.
> BTW: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wheelchair _is_ such a main
> page.

yes and I have added your valuable input there.

> But I do not understand, why people who look-and-not-found something in the
> wiki do not _search_ it.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+disabled=Special:Search=default=1=43w1ocpu8z9o2545k2x9jn3vd
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+wheelchair=Special:Search=default=1=bquqcdlt1bi3tzdtjohslf972

because "disabled" was not mentioned very prominently in key:wheelchair before 
I edited it. Even though I knew "disabled" it is just one of the many things 
to try to search for and it simply didn't cross my mind. Btw for a computer
scientist "disabled" rings the wrong bells.

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Georg Feddern]

Am 04.01.2019 um 23:22 schrieb Warin:
Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features 
tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.


On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard > wrote:


looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?




Having a main page - and actualize it - is a really kind service.
BTW: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wheelchair _is_ such a main 
page.


But I do not understand, why people who look-and-not-found something in 
the wiki do not _search_ it.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+disabled=Special:Search=default=1=43w1ocpu8z9o2545k2x9jn3vd
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+wheelchair=Special:Search=default=1=bquqcdlt1bi3tzdtjohslf972

Regards
Georg
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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[PanierAvide]

Hello,

The french community has started months ago creating this page in order 
to list tags around disabilities, and how to practically map associated 
features (and referencing "concurrent" tags when multiple schemes exists) :


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel

This is still a work in progress, but can give some ideas for creating 
such an entry page in english.


Regards,

Adrien.


Le 04/01/2019 à 23:22, Warin a écrit :
Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features 
tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.


On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard > wrote:


looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=parking or 
capacity:disabled.  Note
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of 
spaces INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays 
but not discern

which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote 
the car park as a whole,
see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space 
and associated

proposal.

--
Paul



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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Warin]

Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features 
tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.


On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard > wrote:


looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=parking or 
capacity:disabled.  Note
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of spaces 
INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays 
but not discern

which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote 
the car park as a whole,
see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space 
and associated

proposal.

--
Paul



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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard  wrote:

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
> for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
>

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=parking or
capacity:disabled.  Note
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of spaces
INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays but not
discern
which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote the car
park as a whole,
see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space and
associated
proposal.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2019-01-04 at 21:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated 
> for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

It is mentioned in the wiki under parking space

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space#Disabled_parking_and_other_access_restrictions

Phil (trigpoint)


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[Tagging] wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

[Richard]

Hi,

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated 
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

Richard

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