Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Well... Private messages tell me that boules might be popular outside of France, so here is a translation for a more international debate... According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dboules a petanque pitch (leisure=pitch) is: sport=boules boules=petanque (375 nodes, 75 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3op) But according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:sport it is: sport=boules type=petanque (607 nodes, 111 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oo) Any opinions on a future harmonization of the tagging of boules game types ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 10:00 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: Well... Private messages tell me that boules might be popular outside of France, so here is a translation for a more international debate... According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dboules a petanque pitch (leisure=pitch) is: sport=boules boules=petanque (375 nodes, 75 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3op) But according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:sport it is: sport=boules type=petanque (607 nodes, 111 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oo) Any opinions on a future harmonization of the tagging of boules game types ? type is far too vague - it doesn't namespace at all, so it doesn't make it definite if it's a type of boules, a type of pitch, etc. The english wiki says, and I concur, Key:type should be avoided: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:type Much better to standardise on the chaining approach i.e. boules=* (or boules:type=* would have been another possibility in a parallel universe). Luckily, the number of petanque objects is small enough that it's possible to harmonise, so long as the nations can agree :) Just my 2p Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 11:07 GMT+02:00 Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com: Much better to standardise on the chaining approach i.e. boules=* this was also discussed on talk-it (and I think talk-de) in the past: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2013-October/038240.html the wiki advocates for boules=* on the tag page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dboules to which I'm inclined to agree. Current usage is not very intense (80 times), and the top-level approach sport=bocce for the Italian variant is higher still: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sport%3Dbocc* cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: type is far too vague - it doesn't namespace at all, so it doesn't make it definite if it's a type of boules, a type of pitch, etc. The english wiki says, and I concur, Key:type should be avoided: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:type Much better to standardise on the chaining approach i.e. boules=* (or boules:type=* would have been another possibility in a parallel universe). Luckily, the number of petanque objects is small enough that it's possible to harmonise, so long as the nations can agree :) +1 I don't like the key location=* for the same reasons. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Much better to standardise on the chaining approach i.e. boules=* this was also discussed on talk-it (and I think talk-de) in the past: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2013-October/038240.html the wiki advocates for boules=* on the tag page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dboules to which I'm inclined to agree. +1 Current usage is not very intense (80 times), and the top-level approach sport=bocce for the Italian variant is higher still: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sport%3Dbocc* Not sure to understand you. (there are 30 sport=bocce vs 3871 sport=boules) I would definitely like all types of pentanque/boccia and whatever being tagged the same way, independent of the country. So this would be: leisure=pitch sport=boules boules=pentanque or boules=boccia Or did I get you wrong? nounours ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 13:43 GMT+02:00 nounours77 kuessemondtaegl...@gmail.com: Current usage is not very intense (80 times), and the top-level approach sport=bocce for the Italian variant is higher still: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sport%3Dbocc* Not sure to understand you. (there are 30 sport=bocce vs 3871 sport=boules) what I meant was that there are only 3 boules=bocce but 30 sport=bocce (given the small total this is not necessarily significant), I'd still advocate for sport=boules together with boules=bocce. I would definitely like all types of pentanque/boccia and whatever being tagged the same way, independent of the country. the thing is to determine whether a sport is a kind of boules or is a sport of its own. There is a list here for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boules#Games but I wouldn't necessarily include this one as subtype of boules (on the list it is) when using a tag in osm to specify a pitch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowls but maybe rather use a dedicated main type (sport=bowls). Indeed this is what you can also find reflected in the current usage: 6 291 *sport* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/sport *bowls* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/sport=bowls boules=bowls - 0 cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 11:00 +0200, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: Well... Private messages tell me that boules might be popular outside of France, so here is a translation for a more international debate... According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dboules a petanque pitch (leisure=pitch) is: sport=boules boules=petanque (375 nodes, 75 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3op) But according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:sport it is: sport=boules type=petanque (607 nodes, 111 ways - http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oo) Any opinions on a future harmonization of the tagging of boules game types ? In the UK some pubs have boules pitches, I think it is known petanque here, but boules makes more sense to me. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Am 15.05.2014 um 14:00 schrieb tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org: Indeed this is what you can also find reflected in the current usage: 6 291 *sport* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/sport *bowls* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/sport=bowls boules=bowls - 0 So should we then go with leisure=pitch sport=bowls bowls=bowls | pentanque | boccia | whatever nounours___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
On 15/05/2014 14:43, nounours77 wrote: bowls=bowls | petanque | bocce | whatever One could argue that locale=c would lead us toward using 'bowls' but on the other hand even the English-language Wikipedia article for bocce mentions that it is a ball sport belonging to the boules sport family thus hinting that 'boules' is the correct term for the main sport=* tag. The international spread of sport=boules validates that: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oy So I would lean toward: leisure=pitch sport=boules boules=petanque|whatever ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Am 15.05.2014 15:01, schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: On 15/05/2014 14:43, nounours77 wrote: bowls=bowls | petanque | bocce | whatever One could argue that locale=c would lead us toward using 'bowls' but on the other hand even the English-language Wikipedia article for bocce mentions that it is a ball sport belonging to the boules sport family thus hinting that 'boules' is the correct term for the main sport=* tag. The international spread of sport=boules validates that: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oy So I would lean toward: leisure=pitch sport=boules boules=petanque|whatever +1 boules=bocce;bocce_volo;boccia;bowls;petanque;* fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 14:43 GMT+02:00 nounours77 kuessemondtaegl...@gmail.com: Indeed this is what you can also find reflected in the current usage: 6 291 *sport* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/sport *bowls* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/sport=bowls boules=bowls - 0 So should we then go with leisure=pitch sport=bowls bowls=bowls | pentanque | boccia | whatever -1 what I meant to say was: sport=boules boules=petanque | bocce | boules | etc. is fine for me, but I wouldn't add boules=bowls to this list because it seems quite different (e.g. the pitch is grass and not sand or gravel). Instead sport=bowls is perfectly valid and used twice as much as all kinds of boules together. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Am 15.05.2014 18:14, schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: On 15/05/2014 17:17, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: but I wouldn't add boules=bowls to this list because it seems quite different (e.g. the pitch is grass and not sand or gravel). Instead sport=bowls is perfectly valid and used twice as much as all kinds of boules together. Sound reasonable to me - I'll leave sport=bowls alone. Pretty much everyone has agreed that the type=* is being abused and that chaining sport=boules;boules=petanque is cleaner so I'm going to correct the 718 occurrences of sport=boules;type=petanque into sport=boules;boules=petanque. This would be an automatic edit and at least should be open for discussion for more than some days. I might also do it for sport=boules;type=bocce which would become sport=boules;boules=bocce. There are 1093 occurrences of sport=boules;type=* : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oF Well then why not use boules:type ? fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 18:14 GMT+02:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: I might also do it for sport=boules;type=bocce which would become sport=boules;boules=bocce. +1, there is also 1 type=boccia which might be normalized to bocce. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
On 15/05/2014 18:22, fly wrote: Pretty much everyone has agreed that the type=* is being abused and that chaining sport=boules;boules=petanque is cleaner so I'm going to correct the 718 occurrences of sport=boules;type=petanque into sport=boules;boules=petanque. This would be an automatic edit and at least should be open for discussion for more than some days. Yes - I'll let it cool down for a while. I might also do it for sport=boules;type=bocce which would become sport=boules;boules=bocce. There are 1093 occurrences of sport=boules;type=* : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/3oF Well then why not use boules:type ? From messages here, on talk and on talk-fr, there seem to be a consensus about namespace chaining such as sport=boules;boules=bocce. No one has offered sport=boules;boules:type=bocce - maybe because the boules namespace most probably won't expand into complexity that justifies subkeys. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
Am 15.05.2014 18:24, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2014-05-15 18:14 GMT+02:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org mailto:j...@liotier.org: I might also do it for sport=boules;type=bocce which would become sport=boules;boules=bocce. +1, there is also 1 type=boccia which might be normalized to bocce. Wikipedia makes a difference between boccia and bocce, even if it is just the italian name. fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
2014-05-15 18:30 GMT+02:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Wikipedia makes a difference between boccia and bocce, even if it is just the italian name. the Italian wikipedia states that Boccia is Bocce for disabled people, the english WP says it is something very similar. I am no expert in this field but had always assumed that both are the same (bocce is the Italian plural of boccia). In doubt, leave it as it is. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] boules=petanque vs. type=petanque
On 05/15/2014 06:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-05-15 18:30 GMT+02:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com mailto:lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Wikipedia makes a difference between boccia and bocce, even if it is just the italian name. the Italian wikipedia states that Boccia is Bocce for disabled people, the english WP says it is something very similar. I am no expert in this field but had always assumed that both are the same (bocce is the Italian plural of boccia). In doubt, leave it as it is. I certainly don't intend to touch the values - just the tagging scheme... I'll leave the boccia vs. bocce debate to talk-it ! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
