Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
Bryce Nesbitt bryce2@... writes: The http://www.mrlc.gov/ Is a partnership of: federal and state partner agencies interested in assisting in either the population of the Landsat database or collaboration in developing the Land Cover database. Which have all agreed on common landcover descriptions, including a code feature for stony ground. A interesting line-up one must say. Here is the latest (2001) definition of the different classes: http://www.epa.gov/mrlc/definitions.html#2001 They have shown a distinct movement from land use-like classes to more physical definitions. The old Bare_Rock/Sand/Clay have been replaced by the simpler barren_land. !!This could be an alternative approach to the tag-name. Use vegetated or barren as tags. Maybe I was to specific when looking/and failing to find a tag for all land of bare rock (stony ground). The vegetated/barren couple could be better. Anyone got any objections on barren, do it have other meanings? /Johan Jönsson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
2011/9/5 Johan Jönsson joha...@goteborg.cc: They have shown a distinct movement from land use-like classes to more physical definitions. The old Bare_Rock/Sand/Clay have been replaced by the simpler barren_land. !!This could be an alternative approach to the tag-name. Use vegetated or barren as tags. Maybe I was to specific when looking/and failing to find a tag for all land of bare rock (stony ground). The vegetated/barren couple could be better. But you have to see how they define it. The US use barren for Generally, vegetation accounts for less than 15% of total cover. as opposed to the FAO that sets 4% as the limit for vegetated. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
It might not be a good idea to try to find one tag all areas of rock (that then could be refined). Probably it would be better to find a general tag for areas of solid rock and another general tag for areas of fragmented rock. I am looking for a general term as there seem to be so many specialized terms, it would be troublesome to get a whole covering set of specialized tags. ---Areas of solid unbroken rock-- # bare_rock Could that be understood as an uncovered surface of rock, bedrock? # bedrockIf there is rock showing I guess it is the bedrock. --Areas of fragmented rock-- # stony_ground Might seem to exclude the really big stones, boulders and such. # fragmented_rock Is fragmented understandable? Or is it futile to find something to encompass everything from fields of large boulders to gravel? /Johan Jönsson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
Thehttp://www.mrlc.gov/ Is a partnership of: * Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) * National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) * United States Forest Service (USFS) * United States Geological Survey (USGS) * LANDFIRE * Bureau of Land Management (BLM) * Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) * National Park Service (NPS) * National Aeronautics and Space Administration NASA * U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) * Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement (OSM) Agencies interested in becoming an MRLC consortium agency can contact the USGS/EROS Data Center MRLC Coordinator (ho...@usgs.gov mailto:ho...@usgs.gov). The consortium welcomes additional federal and state partner agencies interested in assisting in either the population of the Landsat database or collaboration in developing the Land Cover database. Which have all agreed on common landcover descriptions, including a code feature for stony ground. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist@... writes: 2011/9/1 Johan Jönsson johan.j at goteborg.cc: I have also looked at the UN-organization FAO that reasons about a scheme for tagging land cover... http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/X0596E/x0596e01f.htm It's indeed interesting how they do landcover, they work in 2 phases. In the first phase they use 3 simple steps to differentiate. 1. Primarily vegetated=yes/no and a criterion for vegetated with at least 4% vegetation cover for at least 2 months of the year. this results in 2 classes, each of which is analyzed in a second step: 2. Edaphic Condition=terrestrial/aquatic or regularly flooded aquatic includes marshes, swamps, bogs and all areas where water is present for a substantial period regularly every year. the 4 resulting classes are then divided by their 3. artificiality of cover in Artificial/managed and in (Semi-)natural Those classes are then further refined in the second phase, when more detailed landcover and environmental attributes like climate, erosion, landform are added. A scheme is here: http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/X0596E/X0596e10.gif cheers, Martin It is an ambitious project and it would be nice if we could try to do something similar. By there scheme bare_rock goes like this: Vegetation=no Wetland=no man_made_cover=no Further differentiating could be done based on the surface structure, something in the line of fragmented=yes/no /Johan Jönsson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
2011/9/1 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 8/31/2011 1:50 PM, Johan Jönsson wrote: A name to use for tagging stony ground. I am looking for a denomination to use for an area that have little or no vegetation so that the stony ground shows. Could there be a tag describing everything from coarse gravel, boulders, scree to exposed bedrock. We have a tag for scree: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dscree Yes, but reading the definition scree seems to be about loose rock/stones. The OP seemed to be interested in a generic tag also for bare upperlying rock. The possible use of scree seems to be reduced to mountainous regions. Given my personal interpretation of natural that those describe topographic features I'd interpret the tag natural=scree as a field of scree. When tagging a landcover I would make a distinction between coarse gravel and solid rock. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
Bryce Nesbitt bryce2@... writes: On 08/31/2011 10:50 AM, Johan Jönsson wrote: A name to use for tagging stony ground. I am looking for a denomination to use for an area that have little or no vegetation so that the stony ground shows. Could there be a tag describing everything from coarse gravel, boulders, scree to exposed bedrock. There are well established land cover types used by various government data sources: I suggest OSM adopt one. I agree, let us use terms from people who already have thought about this. (Many of the land cover-definition is made for interpreting remote sensing dat though) I have looked at a european remote sensing land cover defintion by European Topic Centre on Land Use and Spatial Information used in CORINNE, they use bare_rock foreverything that behaves like that when rmeote sensing, including all kinds of rocks even scree only discouraging fine white sand. http://sia.eionet.europa.eu/CLC2000/classes/Pictures?CLCcategory=3/3.3/3.3.2CLCtitle=Bare%2520rocks I have also looked at the UN-organization FAO that reasons about a scheme for tagging land cover, they write that bare areas should be tagged specific and more detailed mapping should use the nature of the surface, if it is consilidated or not. I guess they suggest differentiating between areas of loose rocks and those of firm rock. Somewhere I have seen that they call unfragmented rocks: bare rock and the fragmented rock: Gravel/Stones/Boulders http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/X0596E/x0596e01f.htm Another source I looked at is the Orienteering association, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IOFmapping#Rock_and_boulders, they use bare_rock for the solid surface and boulder_field/stony_ground for the fragmented surfaces. According to the thesis http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd68/Fisher%20P.%20%28Ed%29%20Re-presenting%20GIS%20%282005%29%28en%29%28296s%29.pdf USGS only make a difference between Sandy areas other than beaches and bare exposed rock. I guess that stony ground is included in bare exposed rock. hmm, but on the web http://landcover.usgs.gov/classes.php#barren I see that among the barren areas they have a general term for Bare Rock/Sand/Clay To conclude, if there is a general term for both solid and fragmented areas of rock I think it is bare_rock but it do seem easy to interpret it as only defining solid rock. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
On 08/31/2011 10:50 AM, Johan Jönsson wrote: A name to use for tagging stony ground. I am looking for a denomination to use for an area that have little or no vegetation so that the stony ground shows. Could there be a tag describing everything from coarse gravel, boulders, scree to exposed bedrock. There are well established land cover types used by various government data sources: I suggest OSM adopt one. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?
On 8/31/2011 1:50 PM, Johan Jönsson wrote: A name to use for tagging stony ground. I am looking for a denomination to use for an area that have little or no vegetation so that the stony ground shows. Could there be a tag describing everything from coarse gravel, boulders, scree to exposed bedrock. We have a tag for scree: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dscree ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
