Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
Sounds like an area encompassing all involving landuse=highway couldn't hurt, either. On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
How is this, in any way, incorrect rendering, particularly at higher zoom levels? On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: Road itself is not oneway as it has two one-way carriageways in opposite directions. Carriageways are mapped in OSM as separate one-way ways. 2014-07-10 21:32 GMT+02:00 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: I am confused. You state that the road is divided into two carriageways, that neither carriageway is one-way, and also that each carriageway is one-way. How can a given carriageway be both one-way and not one-way at the same time? On July 10, 2014 5:20:16 AM CDT, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
I did manage to do it (reasonably accurately) by algorithm for the UK, but it was a bit of a pain. Adding dual_carriageway=yes tags, particularly in urban areas, wouldn't hurt. Richard On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
I did manage to do it (reasonably accurately) by algorithm for the UK, but it was a bit of a pain. Can you share it? Currently I have absolutely no idea how to solve case of link type roads that are not really links ( cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
I think I just ignored very short links, so I don't think it would help in that case. Very roughly, I calculated the bearing of each way, and matched up ones that were within a few metres laterally and a few degrees of 180deg of each other. Richard On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I did manage to do it (reasonably accurately) by algorithm for the UK, but it was a bit of a pain. Can you share it? Currently I have absolutely no idea how to solve case of link type roads that are not really links ( cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
2014-07-10 12:20 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. you could also use the area-relation for this (and make this routable for pedestrians without explicit connections, define implicitly the barrier between the 2 carriageways, etc.): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
I am confused. You state that the road is divided into two carriageways, that neither carriageway is one-way, and also that each carriageway is one-way. How can a given carriageway be both one-way and not one-way at the same time? On July 10, 2014 5:20:16 AM CDT, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
Road itself is not oneway as it has two one-way carriageways in opposite directions. Carriageways are mapped in OSM as separate one-way ways. 2014-07-10 21:32 GMT+02:00 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: I am confused. You state that the road is divided into two carriageways, that neither carriageway is one-way, and also that each carriageway is one-way. How can a given carriageway be both one-way and not one-way at the same time? On July 10, 2014 5:20:16 AM CDT, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
An example situation is visible here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/34.05688/-106.89005 Both California St and the nearby I-25 are two-way streets made up of two parallel one-way streets. This has the advantage of thorough data, but it introduces two issues that I see: 1) Information on crossover points is usually insufficient for surface streets of this type, at least in the US. It is possible to make U-turns and left turns from California St in many more places than the map shows, but considering that these places are just small cuts in the divider it seems excessive to make a small road object for each one. 2) When you zoom out, the two sides are still rendered separately but the lines begin to overlap. It begins to look strange, e.g. two California St labels on slightly different baselines will appear right next to eachother, with one representing each side. A reference tying the two ways together might provide map renderers information that they could use to prevent this situation. Jesse B. Crawford Student, Information Technology New Mexico Inst. of Mining Tech jcrawf...@cs.nmt.edu | je...@jbcrawford.us http://cs.nmt.edu/~jcrawford | http://jbcrawford.us On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: Road itself is not oneway as it has two one-way carriageways in opposite directions. Carriageways are mapped in OSM as separate one-way ways. 2014-07-10 21:32 GMT+02:00 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: I am confused. You state that the road is divided into two carriageways, that neither carriageway is one-way, and also that each carriageway is one-way. How can a given carriageway be both one-way and not one-way at the same time? On July 10, 2014 5:20:16 AM CDT, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking about marking tagging roads with separate carriageways. I want to create map with oneway roads, but in OSM data roads with separate carriageways that are not oneway are frequently represented as separate ways, both tagged as oneway. Adding tag that that would describe way as part of dual carriageway, with twin road leading in opposite direction would allow to solve this problem. I am currently thinking about good name for this tag and whatever there is possibly to achieve this result solely by processing OSM data (processing is probably necessary anyway to catch cases like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/182138211 ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Marking dual carriageways
On Jul 10, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Jesse Crawford wrote: An example situation is visible here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/34.05688/-106.89005 Both California St and the nearby I-25 are two-way streets made up of two parallel one-way streets. This has the advantage of thorough data, but it introduces two issues that I see: 1) Information on crossover points is usually insufficient for surface streets of this type, at least in the US. It is possible to make U-turns and left turns from California St in many more places than the map shows, but considering that these places are just small cuts in the divider it seems excessive to make a small road object for each one. 2) When you zoom out, the two sides are still rendered separately but the lines begin to overlap. It begins to look strange, e.g. two California St labels on slightly different baselines will appear right next to eachother, with one representing each side. A reference tying the two ways together might provide map renderers information that they could use to prevent this situation. Looking at your example my first impression is that the big problems in this area are off the topic of this thread: 1. The area is still a Tiger Desert where nearly every road still has a tiger:reviewed=no tag. 2. It is not obvious, due to lack of GPX tracks, how well the satellite imagery is aligned so accurate arm chair mapping is problematical. 3. Tags that would really assist some data consumers that focus on routing and driving directions are missing (e.g maxspeed=*, locations of stop signs, etc.). 4. And, like much of the U.S., addr:street=* and addr:housenumber=* information is missing too. You can't route to it if you can't find it. :( But getting back to your two points: 1. Most of the crossings I see in the Bing imagery in your example area are at cross roads and entrances to parking areas. They exist that way in real life and can be mapped that way in OSM, so it does not seem excessive to me to add the occasional small connectors needed in areas where there is no cross street, etc. 2. There is already the concept of route relations where segments of a through way, even with dual one-way carriageways, can be shown to be related. I haven't seen it done for things like your California Street in Socorro example, but look at how this county route in California has both the north and south bound carriage ways all shown to be related: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1205049 I don't know of a renderer that uses this to decide that only one set of label text and/or highway shields is needed, but the data is there for them to use if they want. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
