Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:31 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps there's a call for a building name tag which may or may not be the addr:housename tag? I think that's called name=* Paul, if you'd read the actual instances of addr:housename that I provided earlier on this thread, then you'd have seen that the name field is already being used for the POI itself (as it should be). What we have in the United States are examples where people will put in the name of the structure, such as the mall that a store is in as the addr:housename. - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Paul, if you'd read the actual instances of addr:housename that I provided earlier on this thread, then you'd have seen that the name field is already being used for the POI itself (as it should be). But this is a mistake. addr:housename has not been created to replace name, operator, brand or addr:housenumber. As the wiki says, it has been created for houses without numbers and designated by a name. If you build an address for a POI, you need all tags addr:* plus the POI name. We don't have to duplicate the POI name into addr:housename. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
2014-06-19 10:14 GMT+02:00 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com: Paul, if you'd read the actual instances of addr:housename that I provided earlier on this thread, then you'd have seen that the name field is already being used for the POI itself (as it should be). -1, the name is the name of the tagged feature, if there is a building with a POI in it and you want to do it cleanly, you should seperate the two into different objects (a building and a POI in it) so you can give each of them their name unambigously. If you have a building without a name you can also lazily mix them up, but I'd always see this as an interim solution, because there will probably be more properties which will (when more detail is tagged) have to be associated just to one of the two, e.g. start_date, wikipedia, operator, ... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
Am Sonntag, den 15.06.2014, 16:02 +0200 schrieb fly: Please, be careful. Not all of the numeric housenames are errors. You have to check them individually or maybe better contact the user and ask for clarification. I've added a feature request for keepright: https://github.com/keepright/keepright/issues/37 Regards Werner ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
Reading from the wiki: This is sometimes used in some countries like England instead of [1] (or in addition to [2]) a house number. From that, I originally understood that one would use housename: [1] when a house number does not apply (when houses are identified by names/non-numeric codes, not by pure numbers) [2] as a generic field for additional addressing information (mostly as a substitute to addr:door and addr:unit, which never really took off despite being approved for 3 years now; this interpretation may be incorrect though) However, if you have a building (even building=house) with a name, you would have building=*+name=[building name], right? In Brazil some people have suggested that one would use addr:housename for a building's name when the element which is a building is also an amenity (e.g. building=yes+amenity=police), in which case the name tag would refer to the amenity, not to the building. I don't think this is the intended usage of name and addr:housename, but let me know if I'm wrong. On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental; there were some bug reports[3][4] against iD, which used to have a housename box at the beginning of every point for entering addresses, pointing out doubtful use by new mappers. The top 100 values of the tag tell their own story. -- Andrew [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr%3Ahousename#values [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr [3] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/1525 [4] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2124 Bloc 1 265 (empty string) 531 1 472 bloc 385 2 379 3 373 4 335 5 293 6 279 7 269 9 263 8 258 10 240 12 224 11 211 edificio 209 Mairie 206 16 202 15 192 14 189 18 189 s/n184 Edificio 179 Heidehaus 168 San Antonio II 164 17 164 Taman Cantek 159 Rathaus159 20 155 19 152 13 146 casă 146 22 143 21 139 Berg Studentby 138 25 136 26 135 23 132 Rose Cottage 130 24 129 A 124 28 122 Taman Ridgeview Phase 12 121 The Cottage121 27 118 The Lodge 116 B 111 31 103 29 100 32 99 30 98 C 98 Pfarrhaus 96 Garages95 Arcaden94 Haus 1 94 33 91 Nöhren Hof 89 The Bungalow 88 36 88 Edificio␣ 88 Haus 2 88 Vestergård 87 Casă 86 Lidl 84 34 84 35 84 D 84 Østergård 83 40 80 38 77 Ældrecentret Kærgården 77 Магазин76 C.C. Condado Shopping 75 37 74 CSI Warehouse 73 Bahnhof73 42 71 44 71 Березники 71 39 70 45 70 The Coach House70 41 69 Stevnshøj 69 Gemeindehaus 68 E 68 McDonald's 68 Golden Haven Memorial Park 66 Gemeindeamt65 Unit 1 65 43 64 Højgård64 The Vicarage 63 Makado 63 46 62 Top Center 62 Netto 62 Møllebækkollegiet 61 Garage 61 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
I think there's an excellent point which is being danced around, which is that there's a conflation between a building's name and the addr:housename. Perhaps there's a call for a building name tag which may or may not be the addr:housename tag? - Serge On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com wrote: Reading from the wiki: This is sometimes used in some countries like England instead of [1] (or in addition to [2]) a house number. From that, I originally understood that one would use housename: [1] when a house number does not apply (when houses are identified by names/non-numeric codes, not by pure numbers) [2] as a generic field for additional addressing information (mostly as a substitute to addr:door and addr:unit, which never really took off despite being approved for 3 years now; this interpretation may be incorrect though) However, if you have a building (even building=house) with a name, you would have building=*+name=[building name], right? In Brazil some people have suggested that one would use addr:housename for a building's name when the element which is a building is also an amenity (e.g. building=yes+amenity=police), in which case the name tag would refer to the amenity, not to the building. I don't think this is the intended usage of name and addr:housename, but let me know if I'm wrong. On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental; there were some bug reports[3][4] against iD, which used to have a housename box at the beginning of every point for entering addresses, pointing out doubtful use by new mappers. The top 100 values of the tag tell their own story. -- Andrew [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr%3Ahousename#values [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr [3] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/1525 [4] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2124 Bloc 1 265 (empty string) 531 1 472 bloc 385 2 379 3 373 4 335 5 293 6 279 7 269 9 263 8 258 10 240 12 224 11 211 edificio 209 Mairie 206 16 202 15 192 14 189 18 189 s/n184 Edificio 179 Heidehaus 168 San Antonio II 164 17 164 Taman Cantek 159 Rathaus159 20 155 19 152 13 146 casă 146 22 143 21 139 Berg Studentby 138 25 136 26 135 23 132 Rose Cottage 130 24 129 A 124 28 122 Taman Ridgeview Phase 12 121 The Cottage121 27 118 The Lodge 116 B 111 31 103 29 100 32 99 30 98 C 98 Pfarrhaus 96 Garages95 Arcaden94 Haus 1 94 33 91 Nöhren Hof 89 The Bungalow 88 36 88 Edificio␣ 88 Haus 2 88 Vestergård 87 Casă 86 Lidl 84 34 84 35 84 D 84 Østergård 83 40 80 38 77 Ældrecentret Kærgården 77 Магазин76 C.C. Condado Shopping 75 37 74 CSI Warehouse 73 Bahnhof73 42 71 44 71 Березники 71 39 70 45 70 The Coach House70 41 69 Stevnshøj 69 Gemeindehaus 68 E 68 McDonald's 68 Golden Haven Memorial Park 66 Gemeindeamt65 Unit 1 65 43 64 Højgård
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
We have house names in Oklahoma, too, especially for buildings that predate statehood, government buildings (especially tribal landmarks), and just small towns in general (For example, the school in many of these small towns is often addressable as Anytown School, Whatever Street, Anytown, OK, which drives my dispatchers nuts to no end, since they're very housenumber oriented folks and think there's a part of the address missing; then again, same people will give me a dispatch in Sapulpa with the city being listed as Tulsa, the state as Arizona and the zipcode for Red Fork, OK expecting me to figure *that *one out...) On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 14 Jun 2014 18:25, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental I also think addr:housename should only be used in countries where the housename is part of the address. The only European country where I know that is the case is England (maybe Ireland too?). I think the use of addr:housename in other European countries is wrong, as the house name is not used in addressing. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
Please, be careful. Not all of the numeric housenames are errors. You have to check them individually or maybe better contact the user and ask for clarification. Cheers fly Am 14.06.2014 19:24, schrieb Andrew Hain: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental; there were some bug reports[3][4] against iD, which used to have a housename box at the beginning of every point for entering addresses, pointing out doubtful use by new mappers. The top 100 values of the tag tell their own story. -- Andrew [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr%3Ahousename#values [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr [3] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/1525 [4] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2124 Bloc 1 265 (empty string) 531 1 472 bloc 385 2 379 3 373 4 335 5 293 6 279 7 269 9 263 8 258 10 240 12 224 11 211 edificio 209 Mairie 206 16 202 15 192 14 189 18 189 s/n184 Edificio 179 Heidehaus 168 San Antonio II 164 17 164 Taman Cantek 159 Rathaus159 20 155 19 152 13 146 casă 146 22 143 21 139 Berg Studentby 138 25 136 26 135 23 132 Rose Cottage 130 24 129 A 124 28 122 Taman Ridgeview Phase 12 121 The Cottage121 27 118 The Lodge 116 B 111 31 103 29 100 32 99 30 98 C 98 Pfarrhaus 96 Garages95 Arcaden94 Haus 1 94 33 91 Nöhren Hof 89 The Bungalow 88 36 88 Edificio␣ 88 Haus 2 88 Vestergård 87 Casă 86 Lidl 84 34 84 35 84 D 84 Østergård 83 40 80 38 77 Ældrecentret Kærgården 77 Магазин76 C.C. Condado Shopping 75 37 74 CSI Warehouse 73 Bahnhof73 42 71 44 71 Березники 71 39 70 45 70 The Coach House70 41 69 Stevnshøj 69 Gemeindehaus 68 E 68 McDonald's 68 Golden Haven Memorial Park 66 Gemeindeamt65 Unit 1 65 43 64 Højgård64 The Vicarage 63 Makado 63 46 62 Top Center 62 Netto 62 Møllebækkollegiet 61 Garage 61 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On 14 Jun 2014 18:25, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental I also think addr:housename should only be used in countries where the housename is part of the address. The only European country where I know that is the case is England (maybe Ireland too?). I think the use of addr:housename in other European countries is wrong, as the house name is not used in addressing. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: I also think addr:housename should only be used in countries where the housename is part of the address. The only European country where I know that is the case is England (maybe Ireland too?). I think the use of addr:housename in other European countries is wrong, as the house name is not used in addressing. So it's also wrong to use addr:housename as the building name? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
What is the address in your opinion? - If it is what the post office uses - then in Germany the city name is not a required part of the address as far as I know as it's included in the postcode. - If you refer to what the government requires to be part of an address, the zip code is not part of the address. - If you refer to what people use to address an establishement, then the housename in fact is part of the address. For an example look at most of the German islands at the north sea coast and the places along the continental coast of the north sea. It's germany, so of course there are housenumbers, but if you talk to the locals you more often get references by housename than by housenumber. regards Peter Am 15.06.2014 16:34, schrieb Matthijs Melissen: On 14 Jun 2014 18:25, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental I also think addr:housename should only be used in countries where the housename is part of the address. The only European country where I know that is the case is England (maybe Ireland too?). I think the use of addr:housename in other European countries is wrong, as the house name is not used in addressing. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On 15 June 2014 19:22, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: What is the address in your opinion? That is of course not black and white. But I do think house names have a different status in the UK than they have in Germany. In Germany, you would normally not include the house name when writing a letter. In the UK, that is common practice: Electronic systems usually only ask for postal code and house number, and then expand this to the full address, including house name. - If it is what the post office uses - then in Germany the city name is not a required part of the address as far as I know as it's included in the postcode. The German post office recommends including the city name: see https://www.deutschepost.de/de/b/briefumschlag-richtig-beschriften.html . -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
In the UK, some house names are added for vanity and these names are not recognised for addressing purposes; the house has a number, and this is what is in the official address. Other houses however (often old properties along country lanes) actually have a house name instead of a number. These names are registered with the local authority and the postal authorities, and changing them is an official process. Hence electronic systems handling UK addresses have to allow for house names as well as numbers. Colin On 2014-06-15 21:19, Matthijs Melissen wrote: On 15 June 2014 19:22, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: What is the address in your opinion? That is of course not black and white. But I do think house names have a different status in the UK than they have in Germany. In Germany, you would normally not include the house name when writing a letter. In the UK, that is common practice: Electronic systems usually only ask for postal code and house number, and then expand this to the full address, including house name. - If it is what the post office uses - then in Germany the city name is not a required part of the address as far as I know as it's included in the postcode. The German post office recommends including the city name: see https://www.deutschepost.de/de/b/briefumschlag-richtig-beschriften.html [1] . -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] Links: -- [1] https://www.deutschepost.de/de/b/briefumschlag-richtig-beschriften.html [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Reviewing the use of addr:housename
On 2014-06-15 16:34, Matthijs Melissen wrote : On 14 Jun 2014 18:25, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: The uses of the tag addr:housename in the database[1] does not match documentation[2] well. A high prroportion of uses are accidental I also think addr:housename should only be used in countries where the housename is part of the address. The only European country where I know that is the case is England (maybe Ireland too?). I think the use of addr:housename in other European countries is wrong, as the house name is not used in addressing. What is the difference between housename= and name= actually? In Belgium in 1831, there were 2739 houses called Maison Communale http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=maison+communale, a name that you certainly would use on an envelope (but Administration ... is more common). Only 589 since 1975, but there are many other maisons http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=maison, even simply called La maison http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=la+maison, even in USA http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=la+maison+USA (of course) and other words like hotel. You can even send a letter to Church XXX, sit behind a bush and watch the postman's doings. But you should complain that most mappers omit to tag postal addresses of churches although they exist, here at least, and they are the best way to invite people to the right church and make conversions ;-) I wrote to the bishop's service that they forgot to mention church street addresses in their database ;-) May the Lord be with you and with OSM. André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
