Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.comwrote: Here in Thailand we're having an extended discussion about towers that are associated with temples. I would suggest using man_made=tower in conjunction with tower:type=bell_tower for your situation. Our discussion is stuck on whether such structures are really towers and not monuments but in recent times we have used tower:type=stupa to describe the particular man_made towers that are associated with Buddhist temples or wats. It would be nice to gain some consistency in the description of these common structures. This seems to be the best direction, I want to hear more. I know the lure of finding proper name for everything instead of being general, but remember we use highway to name roads. I've tagged man_made=campaniles, and did so after deciding that there was no real difference between a klockstapel and a campanile. Things are so different between cultures and languages so unless you have someone with a good theory on how to calssify these towers I would say that the more general the better. See discussion about man_made=pier For me man_made=campanile is a free standing tower adjacent to a building that might be religous, and probably contains a clock. Does that cover all use cases? /Erik ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
For me those are rather synonym (but different regions/cultures obviously build them much different). In German the word Glockenstapel doesn't exist (at least in our latitude, 48°). The Nordic Klockstapel as well as the Italian Campanile translate to Glockenturm (which means bell tower) in German. As those are all towers, I'd prefer man_made=tower for all of them. And then I'd detail tower:type=belfry for those Nordic belfries tower:type=campanile for those stand-alone Italien Campaniles tower:type=bell_tower for any ordinary bell tower Or even more extreme man_made=tower tower:type=bell_tower (as we probably agree those all are bell towers) and optionally tower:subtype=belfry tower:subtype=campanile /al ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
+1 Il Venerdì 7 Febbraio 2014 13:11, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: The tag man_made=campanile documented in the wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcampanile) seems to be wrong as it refers to the swedish Klockstapel (https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klockstapel), which is completely different from a campanile (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_tower; https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanile) As it's use is very limited (less than 150) it could still be corrected. The closest concept in English that I can think of is belfry, so I would suggest man_made=belfry to replace man_made=campanile in the wiki for the Scandinavian Klockstapel, Klokkestabel, Kellotapuli, Klokkestøpul, for the German Glockenstapel, and the Hungarian Harangláb. The normal tagging for an English Belltower, Italian campanile, or German Glockenturm should remain man_made=tower + tower:type= bell_tower (it's used more then 5000 times). Volker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
Strictly speaking belfry can mean either the whole tower or more specifically the space where the bells are hung - usually near the top of a tower. However I would suggest that in common English usage the word is more closely associated with the space than with the building. I would prefer to see building/tower/man_made refer to the building as a whole, perhaps labelled as a bell tower, with belfry referring to the presence of a peal of bells. Perhaps belfry=yes/no, as many (former) bell towers no longer have functional bells? (Is a belfry with no bells still a belfry?) Or perhaps belfry:bells=8 to indicate the number of bells in the peal, or belfry:tenor=1000 for the weight of the largest bell in kg (typical UK)? The bells may also be a carillon, so belfry:carillon=yes? All this is of course about the bells which are installed in the belfry which is part of the bell tower. Colin On 2014-02-07 14:28, alessandro zardo wrote: +1 Il Venerdì 7 Febbraio 2014 13:11, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: The tag man_made=campanile documented in the wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcampanile [2]) seems to be wrong as it refers to the swedish Klockstapel (https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klockstapel [3]), which is completely different from a campanile (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_tower [4]; https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanile [5]) As it's use is very limited (less than 150) it could still be corrected. The closest concept in English that I can think of is belfry, so I would suggest man_made=belfry to replace man_made=campanile in the wiki for the Scandinavian Klockstapel, Klokkestabel, Kellotapuli, Klokkestøpul, for the German Glockenstapel, and the Hungarian Harangláb. The normal tagging for an English Belltower, Italian campanile, or German Glockenturm should remain man_made=tower + tower:type= bell_tower (it's used more then 5000 times). Volker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcampanile [3] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klockstapel [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_tower [5] https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanile ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
Here in Thailand we're having an extended discussion about towers that are associated with temples. I would suggest using man_made=tower in conjunction with tower:type=bell_tower for your situation. Our discussion is stuck on whether such structures are really towers and not monuments but in recent times we have used tower:type=stupa to describe the particular man_made towers that are associated with Buddhist temples or wats. It would be nice to gain some consistency in the description of these common structures. Cheers, Dave On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: Strictly speaking belfry can mean either the whole tower or more specifically the space where the bells are hung - usually near the top of a tower. However I would suggest that in common English usage the word is more closely associated with the space than with the building. I would prefer to see building/tower/man_made refer to the building as a whole, perhaps labelled as a bell tower, with belfry referring to the presence of a peal of bells. Perhaps belfry=yes/no, as many (former) bell towers no longer have functional bells? (Is a belfry with no bells still a belfry?) Or perhaps belfry:bells=8 to indicate the number of bells in the peal, or belfry:tenor=1000 for the weight of the largest bell in kg (typical UK)? The bells may also be a carillon, so belfry:carillon=yes? All this is of course about the bells which are installed in the belfry which is part of the bell tower. Colin On 2014-02-07 14:28, alessandro zardo wrote: +1 Il Venerdì 7 Febbraio 2014 13:11, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: The tag man_made=campanile documented in the wiki ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcampanile) seems to be wrong as it refers to the swedish Klockstapel ( https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klockstapel), which is completely different from a campanile (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_tower; https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanile) As it's use is very limited (less than 150) it could still be corrected. The closest concept in English that I can think of is belfry, so I would suggest man_made=belfry to replace man_made=campanile in the wiki for the Scandinavian Klockstapel, Klokkestabel, Kellotapuli, Klokkestøpul, for the German Glockenstapel, and the Hungarian Harangláb. The normal tagging for an English Belltower, Italian campanile, or German Glockenturm should remain man_made=tower + tower:type= bell_tower (it's used more then 5000 times). Volker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
On 2/7/14, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: Or perhaps belfry:bells=8 to indicate the number of bells in the peal, or belfry:tenor=1000 for the weight of the largest bell in kg (typical UK)? The weight of the tenor is significant to ringers (I'm a lapsed ringer myself) but giving it kg would be very alien to (British) ringers; the convention is to give it as hundredweight, quarters and pounds. That being said, I see that Dove's Guide (the publication listing change-ringing towers) now gives kg as well; for example, http://dove.cccbr.org.uk/dove.php?searchString=Cambridge%2C+OLEMSubmit=+Go+ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
St Niklaas wrote: Volker and Dave, There some in Holland as well, about 230 in totall. http://nl.ask.com/wiki/Lijst_van_klokkenstoelen_in_Nederland?qsrc=3044lang=nl Many of these without a surrounding tower structure are tagged as man_made=bell_cage. There's a page for this proposed feature on the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Bell_cage And the overpass-turbo is here: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/2rk (Same post, but this time in the thread; sorry about that; Just replied to St Niklaas without looking where it went.) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag man_made=campanile to be replaced with man_made=belfry?
Thanks Frank for pointing this out. Indeed bell_cage could be a better tag than belfry. Volker On 7 February 2014 23:49, Frank Little frank...@xs4all.nl wrote: St Niklaas wrote: Volker and Dave, There some in Holland as well, about 230 in totall. http://nl.ask.com/wiki/Lijst_van_klokkenstoelen_in_ Nederland?qsrc=3044lang=nl Many of these without a surrounding tower structure are tagged as man_made=bell_cage. There's a page for this proposed feature on the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Bell_cage And the overpass-turbo is here: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/2rk (Same post, but this time in the thread; sorry about that; Just replied to St Niklaas without looking where it went.) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
