Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - parking=storage: additional values for key parking
You never can do it fully correct: - The breakfast restaurant in a two-star hotel just for residents is an amenity - A restaurant in a five-star hotel has to be present to qualify the for five stars, just like a gym, so it is an amenity, although you have to pay separately for the service - Gyms and restaurants are also standalone businesses, in that case shop would be more logical - What about the five-star hotel also serving non-residents? In the case of vehicle parking it is a standalone business and not something you expect to be part of a larger business, so shop is most appropriate On Sun Feb 22 2015 at 12:27:19 PM Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: shop=storage to me means a shop that sells bags, boxes .. stuff to store things in ... not the space to store stuff in. so shop=vehicle_storage would be better if it is to be shop=. http://www.garagen-klaus.de/files/garagegreif1_2.jpg __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Practice pitch?
Here is the location of the batting cage business I started mapping (they have a small cafe inside of the main building) Across the big street is a driving range. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.35556/139.04995 Baseball=? brought up the batting cages tag in iD, so I used that. But is that really a pitch? Javbw On Feb 22, 2015, at 9:12 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: I’m trying to tag businesses in Japan, and 2 common sports businesses I have seen are Golf Driving Ranges - giant netted monstrosities that are everywhere all over Japan. I mean everywhere - there are tons of them. They are not part of a golf course, just a stand-alone business on a hill, in a field, or occasionally on top of buildings in big towns. They are often the tallest structure in a rural town. The next is batting cages - small areas with enclosed pitching machines, arranged linearly like a driving range, but with pitching machines and a much smaller enclosed area. there are several just in my little town. I saw there is a golf=driving_range - so I was tagging the driving range itself as a pitch and then the (sometimes 2-3 story) building that you drive from, and then finally on the commercial landuse sports=golf + golf=driving_range. (this is where the fence=net came up). There are also a lot of batting practice places - the national sport of Japan is baseball, and a common High school sport, so there are a lot of commercial (and occasionally some private) batting cages. They are not part of a greater sports complex, but a business you go just to practice batting. There are usually pitching practice cages at baseball fields as well. I was trying to figure out how to tag a batting cage business today. I found an old proposal for “practice pitch” http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Practice_pitch which might be good to revisit and approve, as these facilities are clearly not for the playing, but rather the practice of a specific aspect of the sport. I feel kinda guilty tagging a drivng range or a batting practice netted area as a “pitch” because only the ball collection machines go there - but it is also clearly where the practice is happening. If this approach isn’t correct, please let me know how to tag a baseball batting practice business. Otherwise I will try to clean up this proposal for RFC and voting. javbw. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Practice pitch?
Personally I'd probably include leisure=pitch. Maybe for some people, the batting cage is the game? :) I think baseball=batting_cage makes sense (like golf's driving range). The golf example doesn't make clear whether it'd be best to include the sport tag too. I'm inclined to include sport=baseball too, then one query could get baseball diamonds as well as batting cages. Cheers, Brad On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 7:24 AM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: Here is the location of the batting cage business I started mapping (they have a small cafe inside of the main building) Across the big street is a driving range. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.35556/139.04995 Baseball=? brought up the batting cages tag in iD, so I used that. But is that really a pitch? Javbw On Feb 22, 2015, at 9:12 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: I’m trying to tag businesses in Japan, and 2 common sports businesses I have seen are Golf Driving Ranges - giant netted monstrosities that are everywhere all over Japan. I mean everywhere - there are tons of them. They are not part of a golf course, just a stand-alone business on a hill, in a field, or occasionally on top of buildings in big towns. They are often the tallest structure in a rural town. The next is batting cages - small areas with enclosed pitching machines, arranged linearly like a driving range, but with pitching machines and a much smaller enclosed area. there are several just in my little town. I saw there is a golf=driving_range - so I was tagging the driving range itself as a pitch and then the (sometimes 2-3 story) building that you drive from, and then finally on the commercial landuse sports=golf + golf=driving_range. (this is where the fence=net came up). There are also a lot of batting practice places - the national sport of Japan is baseball, and a common High school sport, so there are a lot of commercial (and occasionally some private) batting cages. They are not part of a greater sports complex, but a business you go just to practice batting. There are usually pitching practice cages at baseball fields as well. I was trying to figure out how to tag a batting cage business today. I found an old proposal for “practice pitch” http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Practice_pitch which might be good to revisit and approve, as these facilities are clearly not for the playing, but rather the practice of a specific aspect of the sport. I feel kinda guilty tagging a drivng range or a batting practice netted area as a “pitch” because only the ball collection machines go there - but it is also clearly where the practice is happening. If this approach isn’t correct, please let me know how to tag a baseball batting practice business. Otherwise I will try to clean up this proposal for RFC and voting. javbw. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
How about adding the side ? portage=left/right/both portage:left=* Are there any major differences in construction/use ? I know wooden portages but there might be other material. Any thoughts how to deal with mircromapping, e.g. adding the portage as own object next to a path. What tags should remain on the highway ? Cheers fly Am 22.02.2015 um 15:25 schrieb Brad Neuhauser: Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - parking=storage: additional values for key parking
shop=storage to me means a shop that sells bags, boxes .. stuff to store things in ... not the space to store stuff in. so shop=vehicle_storage would be better if it is to be shop=. http://www.garagen-klaus.de/files/garagegreif1_2.jpg __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Practice pitch?
I’m trying to tag businesses in Japan, and 2 common sports businesses I have seen are Golf Driving Ranges - giant netted monstrosities that are everywhere all over Japan. I mean everywhere - there are tons of them. They are not part of a golf course, just a stand-alone business on a hill, in a field, or occasionally on top of buildings in big towns. They are often the tallest structure in a rural town. The next is batting cages - small areas with enclosed pitching machines, arranged linearly like a driving range, but with pitching machines and a much smaller enclosed area. there are several just in my little town. I saw there is a golf=driving_range - so I was tagging the driving range itself as a pitch and then the (sometimes 2-3 story) building that you drive from, and then finally on the commercial landuse sports=golf + golf=driving_range. (this is where the fence=net came up). There are also a lot of batting practice places - the national sport of Japan is baseball, and a common High school sport, so there are a lot of commercial (and occasionally some private) batting cages. They are not part of a greater sports complex, but a business you go just to practice batting. There are usually pitching practice cages at baseball fields as well. I was trying to figure out how to tag a batting cage business today. I found an old proposal for “practice pitch” http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Practice_pitch http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Practice_pitch which might be good to revisit and approve, as these facilities are clearly not for the playing, but rather the practice of a specific aspect of the sport. I feel kinda guilty tagging a drivng range or a batting practice netted area as a “pitch” because only the ball collection machines go there - but it is also clearly where the practice is happening. If this approach isn’t correct, please let me know how to tag a baseball batting practice business. Otherwise I will try to clean up this proposal for RFC and voting. javbw. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 6:25 AM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. And this will bring up the issue of retagging eventually. Re-tagging is, as someone here recently said, often seen as akin to defecation. However two other tags seem to have a quite specific meaning here, and folding everything into one tag can help to build router and app support. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
The portages I'm talking about, people carry their canoe as they walk along the trail, so those things aren't relevant. You seem to be talking about something different--can you expand on what you mean? On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 8:45 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: How about adding the side ? portage=left/right/both portage:left=* Are there any major differences in construction/use ? I know wooden portages but there might be other material. Any thoughts how to deal with mircromapping, e.g. adding the portage as own object next to a path. What tags should remain on the highway ? Cheers fly Am 22.02.2015 um 15:25 schrieb Brad Neuhauser: Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
I think the wooden portages he refers to are a series of wooden rollers one would roll the canoe along, to avoid having to carry the full weight. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On February 22, 2015 1:58:34 PM Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Most portages don't follow the river/creek so stating a side is not usefull - they need a separate way. On 23/02/2015 5:23 AM, Brad Neuhauser wrote: The portages I'm talking about, people carry their canoe as they walk along the trail, so those things aren't relevant. You seem to be talking about something different--can you expand on what you mean? On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 8:45 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com mailto:lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: How about adding the side ? portage=left/right/both portage:left=* Are there any major differences in construction/use ? I know wooden portages but there might be other material. Any thoughts how to deal with mircromapping, e.g. adding the portage as own object next to a path. What tags should remain on the highway ? Cheers fly Am 22.02.2015 um 15:25 schrieb Brad Neuhauser: Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com mailto:bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tag for portages?
Most portages don't follow the river/creek so stating a side is not usefull - they need a separate way. On 23/02/2015 5:23 AM, Brad Neuhauser wrote: The portages I'm talking about, people carry their canoe as they walk along the trail, so those things aren't relevant. You seem to be talking about something different--can you expand on what you mean? On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 8:45 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com mailto:lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: How about adding the side ? portage=left/right/both portage:left=* Are there any major differences in construction/use ? I know wooden portages but there might be other material. Any thoughts how to deal with mircromapping, e.g. adding the portage as own object next to a path. What tags should remain on the highway ? Cheers fly Am 22.02.2015 um 15:25 schrieb Brad Neuhauser: Thanks for the feedback! portage=* was my initial instinct, but I was starting to second guess after finding the other tags. Cheers, Brad On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com mailto:bry...@obviously.com wrote: This seems like a good place for highway=path + portage=yes Because these are definitely still paths (and sometimes coincident with a land based path). whitewater=portage_way seems overly specific, as does canoe=portage. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki edits on junction=roundabout
The background is an osm2pgsql issue, the wiki edit itself is IMHO mistaken see: https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/issues/304 Am 23.02.2015 um 08:43 schrieb Martin Vonwald: Hi! Can someone please explain these edits to me: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Ajunction%3Droundaboutdiff=1142769oldid=1107975 A little overkill - isn't it? And since when is area=no needed? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Wiki edits on junction=roundabout
Hi! Can someone please explain these edits to me: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Ajunction%3Droundaboutdiff=1142769oldid=1107975 A little overkill - isn't it? And since when is area=no needed? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - parking=storage: additional values for key parking
On Feb 22, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com wrote: You never can do it fully correct: The breakfast restaurant in a two-star hotel just for residents is an amenity A restaurant in a five-star hotel has to be present to qualify the for five stars, just like a gym, so it is an amenity, although you have to pay separately for the service Gyms and restaurants are also standalone businesses, in that case shop would be more logical What about the five-star hotel also serving non-residents? This is a good case question - but the overwhelming majority of restaurants in the world - probably 99.9 percent of restaurants are shops - not some amenity for a hotel - so it feels really weird having it in the amenity space. I think the hotel restaurant is the exception that proves the rule: All true restaurants accept money for food, so they are all shops - they just have access restrictions. if it is a place you sit down and they give you food in exchange for money, it is a restaurant. The amenity for the hotel is room service. If it is a room where you eat your lunch, it is a break room. I don’t think it matters if it is part of the hotel or not, as long as it is named and it is accessible to the public or customers. the operator is the hotel, but the sign on the street level says “restaurant and people would tag a point in that section of the hotel building area to indicate the presence of a restaurant. if the restaurant at the 2 star is named, and there is a sign out front, then it is a shop. if it is a breakfast nook next to the front desk with a box of corn flakes and a danish, it might be something else. (Amenity=meal_corner?) Maybe there should be a “hospitality=*” top level key so we could set some basic amenities of the hotel or same that way - and leave restaurants to actual shops who offer food for money - even if it is private (an army base with a mcdonlads, a private dining club, a guests only restaurant in a hotel, etc). hospitality:breakfast=7:00 to 9:00 (whatever the access restriction theme is) — for the “breakfast service” which is a Danish in a bag and a cup of orange juice hospitality:gym=yes hospitality:pool=indoor because it it is impossible to map out most tall tower hotels, and covering amenity points all over a hotel outline is not really useful, and listing more than one amenity on a hotel object (which are usually just points, like a gym and a restaurant) is impossible because it is all in the amenity space! the gym is an amenity and a shop - just like the storage we are discussing. I think it is bad to have all gyms in amenity, but we should still me able to be able to classify it as an amenity for point tagging in larger facilities (where it truly is an amenity of a facility) If there is some modifier to put on a business to say “this is a business built around the amenity=*”, that might work, but I’d prefer to have separate shop=* or business=* tag - as the weight room at a high school and a local gym are two very different things - one is a business you search for, and the other is an amenity of the much larger facility. maybe I’m misunderstanding something fundamental about tagging, or the way access works, or the way the data is parsed - but not being able to tag “shop foo” a “shop” while being able to tag “shop bar” a “shop” is really counterintuitive - how many people keep tagging in OSM once they make an account? This is part of the reason that is so low. so, so many businesses are basic shops selling things or services to people - probably less than 5% run into these issues - the world is full of well defined shop, weather in a mall, on a street, or even on the side of the road a s a vegetable stand. most of them are straightforward about directly offering services for money. Javbw In the case of vehicle parking it is a standalone business and not something you expect to be part of a larger business, so shop is most appropriate On Sun Feb 22 2015 at 12:27:19 PM Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de mailto:andi...@t-online.de wrote: shop=storage to me means a shop that sells bags, boxes .. stuff to store things in ... not the space to store stuff in. so shop=vehicle_storage would be better if it is to be shop=. http://www.garagen-klaus.de/files/garagegreif1_2.jpg http://www.garagen-klaus.de/files/garagegreif1_2.jpg __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 http://openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
