Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Clifford Ilkay via talk]

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> wrote:

> I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke
> the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for
> regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can
> boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).
>
> System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility
> pre-qualification at my friend's place.
>
> * **
> * * *
>
> Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a
> painless install of debian Linux.
>
> But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am
> completely independent of any other facilities.
>


This reminds me of the Gentoo fans who thought that they were somehow more
"in control" of their machines just because they were copying/pasting
commands from the Gentoo forums and building Gentoo from source. It was an
exercise in yak shaving, just as an offline installation when you have
access to a broadband connection is and just as configuring a dial-up
connection knowing that you're switching to broadband Internet anyway is.
Taken to the extreme, I suppose you could get a printout of all the
software you intend to install and start transcribing. :)



> And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be able
> to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.
>


I don't know if you realize that you have spent more time talking/writing
about this than it would have to download and install Debian. If you are at
your friend's place and your friend has a broadband connection, you'll have
Debian running in about 20 minutes with a reasonable network connection.
Installing this way does not preclude you from using a dial-up connection
to update later. In fact, if you install via a DVD, you're going to have to
change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the online repos that your machine
should fetch from when you connect via dial-up. Otherwise, it will check
for updates on the DVD. If you install using your broadband connection, you
won't have to change a thing in sources.list to update later when or if you
get dial-up working.

If I were in your shoes, I would download the Debian netinstall CD, which
is just over 300M. That is small enough that you can even do that over your
dial-up connection. I would boot from the netinstall image and install away
while you have a broadband connection. Subsequent updates generally won't
be that big so if you get dial-up working, you'll be able to do the updates
when you connect. I say "if you get it working" because I don't remember
what type of modem you're starting with. If you have an exernal modem, you
should be fine. Internal modems are dicier. There were many that were
WinModems and those wouldn't work 20 years ago when dial-up was commonly
used. In those days, I used to use wvdial. I see that it's still available
in Debian .

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay

+1 647-778-8696
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo Canadian Destination ??

[Russell via talk]

On March 4, 2018 8:55:11 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
 wrote:
>Replies below.
>
>Steve
>
>- Original Message - 
>  From: Russell via talk 
>  To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk ; Antonio Sun via talk 
>  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
>ShippedTo Canadian Destination ??
>
>
>
>
>On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk
> wrote:
>  >On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
>  >
>  >>
>  >> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
>  >hard
> >> >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
>  >> >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
>  >> >
>
>  
>
>  >IMO,
>  >
>  >- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk
>  >manipulation
>  >but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
>
>Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro
>it supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started
>with the look and feel of GNU linux. 
>
>Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You
>could explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations
>for the new. 
>
> >- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
>  >drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably
>  >need
>  >massive update during or right after the installation.
>
>Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons,
>or something needs to be  managed under some policy or other, you will
>be glad you wet your feet on a live distro first.
>
>  >
>  >The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
>>machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection,
>and
>  >do
>  >the initial installation there. All other options just defer the
>  >problems,
>  >which you will bump into sooner or later.
>
>I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around
>with me than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump
>into problems there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and
>resilient.
>My mind did wander back to the advantages of DVD versus USB memory
>sticks. And the mention of "cheap and resilient" adds to the
>attraction. Maybe start with System Rescue on a CD / DVD.
>
>And use USB memory stick(s) for the regular debian Linux install isos,
>that will need to be updated on a frequent basis ??
>
>I need the optical drive on the new PC anyway, for playing music on a
>few CDs.

USB pens have one advantage over CD's, in that it is possible to have a live 
distro which also has persistent storage on the stick. There are tutorials for 
linux and I believe a free app for Windows which will set this up for you.

It is possible to use the System Rescue iso as the base for a permanent install 
to a fixed disk, but the steps are kind of convoluted compared to other live 
images which provide an install routine.

It may or may not be trivial to place the System Rescue iso on a larger usb pen 
with persistent storage. At that point, without high speed at home and to save 
bandwidth, you could make note of required package updates sizes and update 
small packages over dialup and larger or more numerous correlated packages 
elsewhere.

Dpkg is the native tool for extracting and installing .deb files. Aptitude is 
the tool for managing those packages from a central download repository. A 
short blurb on how Gentoo deals with extracting .deb files may be found here.

https://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/functions/src_unpack/deb-sources/index.html

Of course once your system is installed and working you should get essential 
update notices while dialed in. You could make note of those you really need 
and copy them to any portable medium. There is no real need to use a live 
distro with storage, but this is a real world task which will help you to 
familiarize yourself with linux filesystems and the tools that go along with it.
>
>-- 
>Russell
>---
>Talk Mailing List
>talk@gtalug.org
>https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
Russell
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Replies below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Russell via talk 
  To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk ; Antonio Sun via talk 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo 
Canadian Destination ??




  On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk  
wrote:
  >On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
  >
  >>
  >> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
  >hard
  >> >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >> >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >> >

  

  >IMO,
  >
  >- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk
  >manipulation
  >but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.

  Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it 
supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the 
look and feel of GNU linux. 

  Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could 
explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new. 

  >- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
  >drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably
  >need
  >massive update during or right after the installation.

  Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or 
something needs to be  managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you 
wet your feet on a live distro first.

  >
  >The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
  >machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and
  >do
  >the initial installation there. All other options just defer the
  >problems,
  >which you will bump into sooner or later.

  I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me 
than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems 
there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient.
My mind did wander back to the advantages of DVD versus USB memory sticks. And 
the mention of "cheap and resilient" adds to the attraction. Maybe start with 
System Rescue on a CD / DVD.

And use USB memory stick(s) for the regular debian Linux install isos, that 
will need to be updated on a frequent basis ??

I need the optical drive on the new PC anyway, for playing music on a few CDs.

-- 
Russell
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Appreciate the offer of assist with dial-up !!

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Cozens via talk 
  To: talk@gtalug.org 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
  > Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... 

  In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I 
  also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could 
  reference the should I need it again.

  I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of 
  the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from 
  October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via 
  dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip.

  It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is 
  still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer 
  available.

  pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration 
  tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I 
  can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day.

  -- 
  Cheers!

  Kevin.

  http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
  Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
   | powerful!"
  #include  | --Chris Hardwick
  ---
  Talk Mailing List
  talk@gtalug.org
  https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Pls. see below.

Steve

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

  - Original Message - 
  From: Antonio Sun via talk 
  To: GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 10:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??






  On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:


  >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >
  >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
  >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

  I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very 
small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for 
several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. 

  IMO, 


  - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but 
not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
  - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, 
that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive 
update during or right after the installation. 


  The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine 
to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial 
installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will 
bump into sooner or later. 
I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the 
new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular 
use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux 
and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).

System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility 
pre-qualification at my friend's place.

* **
* * *

Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless 
install of debian Linux.

But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely 
independent of any other facilities. And also to be independent of any need for 
a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.

So I need to have the debian Linux installation isos on portable physical media 
in a format that will boot into the installation process.




--


  ---
  Talk Mailing List
  talk@gtalug.org
  https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

[GTALUG] crossposting... Keeping Open Source Logic IN Government

[Dave Cramer via talk]

Apologies for crossposting but I felt this was worth it...


RE: MP David Graham

As you know, the first-time MP David Graham has been advancing awareness
of  free/libre/open source understanding and inclusiveness in Parliament,
through the "Digital Caucus" and via his interventions in Committees. He is
the only software programmer, the only known active Linux user in the
chamber.

While the GOSLING community is non-partisan in terms of political parties,
it nevertheless seems within bounds for this list to share a call-out to
help keep an MP who strands for the same principles in Parliament by
participating in fund-raising towards his next federal election campaign.

In order to remain as the Liberal candidate through the 2019 election, the
party has placed thresholds that candidates have ‎to meet by certain dates.
The most important of these is that David must have half of the predicted
spending cap for the election in his budget before being allowed to apply
for the nomination. Currently he is about $20,000 short of this goal.

There are tax credits for donations.

One-time contributions only to his association can be made here:
https://secure.liberal.ca/eda/?eda=24038‎ (Laurentides--Labelle riding)

Monthly contributions can be made here (which require a minimum of $5/month
to ALSO to the national party):
https://secure.liberal.ca/victoryfund/?eda=24038 (Laurentides--Labelle
riding)

Personal cheques to a maximum of $1,575 (total contribution limit to all
riding associations in the country, regardless of party, in a calendar
year) can be snail-mailed to his team at:

Laurentides--Labelle Federal Liberal Association
1494 ch du 6e Rang
Sainte-Lucie-des-Laurentides, QC
J0T 2J0

Regards,

Joseph Potvin
Co-Founder, GOSLING
___
Ottawa-gosling mailing list
ottawa-gosl...@list.goslingcommunity.org
http://list.goslingcommunity.org/mailman/listinfo/ottawa-gosling
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk