[GTALUG] Back to basics: upgrading from Windows to Linux

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

Hi all.

This topic is one I hope will be on many peoples' minds as they encounter
frustration (and in some cases a dead end) moving their Windows 10 systems
to Windows 11. This may soon become the source of a multi-stakeholder
public campaign, but that's just in the planning stages.

Now for the personal angle.

Some ago I installed Windows on a desktop I use a lot. It replaced Linux
because that was incapable of running the one game I like playing. I even
gave a talk to GTALUG about that move, about Windows Subsystem for Linux
and the things I thought were better about the Windows desktop.

Turns out I was wrong. So very, very wrong. And now I can't wait to go back
to my Linux desktop, especially since there's a recent LTS release of
Kubuntu, my traditional distro of choice. Plus, according to ProtonDB, my
game might just run well natively on Linux
!

But it's been a long time since I've done this so I have some remedial
questions to ask from this group's wisdom ... to help me change from a
Windows install to a dual boot, priority Kubuntu:

   1. My motherboard takes a single M.2 SSD for my one and only drive. I
   have a larger M.2 card that I'd like to replace it with, cloning my
   existing setup to the new drive (in a temporary USB enclosure) then
   installing and shrinking the Windows partition in anticipation of the Linux
   dual-boot install. Can anyone recommend a good tool for doing the disk
   clone? Or am I better off to just fresh-install Windows on the new drive,
   and restore my data from the old one?

   2. I want to have one partition for data that is visible regardless if I
   boot Linux or Windows. Previously the most reliable filesystem readable by
   bothwas FAT32. Should I still do that? Is Linux support for NTFS good
   enough now? Even better, can Windows be taught to read ext4?

   3. I've never used snap or flatpack before. Others have told me to
   install as much native (ie, .deb packages) as possible, use flatpack when
   it's the only option and uninstall snap. Any comments or caveats here? And
   why did app installation sources become needlessly complex?

Thanks for any advice.

- Evan
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Re: [GTALUG] Ethernet alias triggering network security warnings

[James Knott via talk]

On 2022-04-27 10:26 p.m., Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
Does anyone on this list know anything about that security program or 
why the person setting up the embedded systems would be seeing the 
duplicate IP warnings?




I have no idea about that security app, but I bet it's seeing both your 
native and VLAN frames.  A VLAN will have the same MAC address as the 
native.  Your choices would be to see if you can block that VLAN from 
reaching that computer, possibly with a managed switch, or maybe there's 
some option within that app to ignore a specific MAC.


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[GTALUG] Ethernet alias triggering network security warnings

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

Greetings, all.

I am using an embedded system that is running a version of an Ubuntu distro. 
The embedded system is being set up so that the physical Ethernet port will 
have two aliases. One is eth0:0 and the other is eth0:1.


eth0:0 is set to get an IP address via DHCP when a network cable is plugged 
in (assuming a DHCP server is available). The eth0:1 is set to have a static 
IP address. This allows an installer to connect a laptop to the system and 
do some onsite configuration (setting WiFi parameters).


The network settings I'm using are:
  auto eth0:0
  iface eth0:0 inet static
  address 192.168.100.110
  netmask 255.255.255.0
  gateway 192.168.100.1

  auto eth0:1
  allow-hotplug eth0:1
  iface eth0:1 inet dhcp

This was working at one point but lately a Windows machine on the network 
will start complaining either about possible ARP poisoning or it will say 
there is a duplicate IP address. The program on the Windows box reporting 
the problem is esset Internet Security. I know nothing about the program. It 
is on the machine of the person preparing boxes to be sent out in to the field.


When I check the system that seems to have triggered the duplicate IP 
address warning I see no duplication. I have checked all the MAC addresses, 
inet v4 and inet v6 IP addresses listed by the ifconfig program.


Does anyone on this list know anything about that security program or why 
the person setting up the embedded systems would be seeing the duplicate IP 
warnings?


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[William Park via talk]

I don't read them anyways. :-)

On 4/27/22 20:49, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 00:37:21 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:


Hi All,

I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see
the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I
know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.


William,

Why do you want to switch from Slackware?  I hope you understand
that when you switch to Ubuntu or Fedora, you will have to locate and
install the fortune cookie.


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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Nicholas Krause via talk]

On 4/27/22 20:49, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 00:37:21 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:


Hi All,

I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see
the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I
know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.


William,

Why do you want to switch from Slackware?  I hope you understand
that when you switch to Ubuntu or Fedora, you will have to locate and
install the fortune cookie.


William,
I agree with most of the other comments. The only other thing is if you want an 
Arch base but avoid
the default install you can try: https://manjaro.org/download/. The Arch 
install isn't too bad, but
that seems like your only nit with it, so maybe this is better for you. You do 
give up on the issues
with being "custom" but maybe you don't care about that.

As to the other comments about Pacman speed, it gets even better if you use 
powerpill according to
other reports. I've not used it but here is the documentation: 
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Powerpill

Not sure that helps you or others,

Nick
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 00:37:21 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see 
> the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I 
> know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.

William,

   Why do you want to switch from Slackware?  I hope you understand
that when you switch to Ubuntu or Fedora, you will have to locate and
install the fortune cookie. 

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Giles Orr via talk]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 00:37, William Park via talk  wrote:
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see
> the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I
> know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.
>
> - Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem
> for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu,
> Xubuntu, etc.
>
> - Oracle -- I use it at work too.  Was CentOS, but switched to Oracle
> because they said delivering end-of-life OS is bad marketing.
>
> - Fedora -- OK.  Doesn't seem to have its equivalent in Ubuntu side.
>
> - OpenSUSE -- Difficult to pin down.  It uses RPM but in their own way.
> It has rolling release (Tumbleweed) and versioned release (Leap).
>
> - Arch -- no.  I don't need/want to learn what they are trying to teach.
>   I run Slackware, so I already know all that.
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
> William

Something I tend to forget about is the GUI: like Chris, I install
whatever distro, then install OpenBox (which isn't very flexible, but
suits my way of working), drop in my own configuration file, and I'm
ready to go.  Many people are extremely picky about their GUIs: if
that's you, my advice isn't much use on that.  I'm extremely picky
about the setup of my terminal - but that can be easily managed in
almost any Linux distro in existence.

I use Debian most of the time, and Fedora on the machines that Debian
can't handle.  This is generally because Debian can be a bit slow with
the newest hardware drivers.  Both have extensive package repositories
and it's very rare for me to have to step outside those to get things
done.  I don't like Fedora's six month release cycle - and I
particularly don't like that they drop their old releases three months
after a new one comes out.  Debian's slower release cycle means you
can get stuck with older software, but they're great about
back-porting security fixes and "stable" is indeed very stable.  I
also prefer 'apt' to 'dnf' as a package manager, but in practice that
hasn't made a lot of difference (although I got to say ... they could
both learn a lot from the impressive speed of Arch's package manager
'pacman' ...).

I personally avoid Devuan: during SystemD's initial year or two of
existence, it was indeed a horror show.  But now that they've forced
users of multiple distros to find the problems with it, it's been well
debugged.  As Lennart says, it's now better than the old Init system.
(Debian and Fedora both use SystemD.)

I also have to agree that you'll save yourself some grief using
whatever distro(s) you're made to use at work.  Even if you don't love
that distro: using it at home gives you more familiarity, and less
work overall.

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

I too try to run as close as possible to what my customer runs in
production.  For a long time, that was Fedora, which is effectively an
upstream for Centos. I'm waiting to see what happens in the centos
switch to quasi-continuous.

--dave

On 4/27/22 09:02, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:

On 2022-04-27 12:37 a.m., William Park via talk wrote:

Hi All,

I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and
see the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?
Yes, I know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.

- Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem
for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu,
Xubuntu, etc.



It can make a lot of sense to run the same at home that you use at
work, so that you're only tracking one distro's quirks and issues, and
being that much more effective at work and needing that much less time
spent debugging issues at home.

I was running Red Hat back when a past job was on that, up until Red
Hat jumped the shark, then CentOS during a couple of gigs that used
that, then I decided it was time to dig into Debian just months before
a job that used that came over the horizon. So now most of my boxes
run Debian.

Meanwhile I picked up Gentoo back around the time RH was bothering me
too much to touch on my own time anymore, partly as a technical
challenge to myself and partly to have the actual source code to
everything actually downloaded, but that can suck up an awful lot of
time even as it hones your sysadmin skills!

Anthony

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--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-br...@indexexchange.com |  -- Mark Twain


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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Anthony de Boer via talk]

On 2022-04-27 12:37 a.m., William Park via talk wrote:

Hi All,

I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and 
see the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, 
I know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.


- Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem 
for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu, 
Xubuntu, etc.



It can make a lot of sense to run the same at home that you use at work, 
so that you're only tracking one distro's quirks and issues, and being 
that much more effective at work and needing that much less time spent 
debugging issues at home.


I was running Red Hat back when a past job was on that, up until Red Hat 
jumped the shark, then CentOS during a couple of gigs that used that, 
then I decided it was time to dig into Debian just months before a job 
that used that came over the horizon. So now most of my boxes run Debian.


Meanwhile I picked up Gentoo back around the time RH was bothering me 
too much to touch on my own time anymore, partly as a technical 
challenge to myself and partly to have the actual source code to 
everything actually downloaded, but that can suck up an awful lot of 
time even as it hones your sysadmin skills!


Anthony

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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 05:33:23AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> Suggest Devuan - - - I'm working on moving more of my systems that way
> over time.

My impression so far is that they have so few people actually working
on it that it will probably not manage to get very far.  But I may just
not be paying enough attention to what they are doing.  I suppose
that having worked with systemd quite a bit by now I have come to the
conclusion they are wrong and systemd is actually a good improvement.
Not perfect, but better than the alternatives.

-- 
len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 12:37:21AM -0400, William Park via talk wrote:
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see the
> world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I know it's
> personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.
> 
> - Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem for
> Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
> 
> - Oracle -- I use it at work too.  Was CentOS, but switched to Oracle
> because they said delivering end-of-life OS is bad marketing.
> 
> - Fedora -- OK.  Doesn't seem to have its equivalent in Ubuntu side.
> 
> - OpenSUSE -- Difficult to pin down.  It uses RPM but in their own way. It
> has rolling release (Tumbleweed) and versioned release (Leap).
> 
> - Arch -- no.  I don't need/want to learn what they are trying to teach.  I
> run Slackware, so I already know all that.

I ran SLS then slackware then moved to Redhat 2.0 (back when there was
such a thing) because it actually had package management, which clearly
showed slackware was useless (this would have been around 1995).  I then
stuck with that until Redhat 6.0 which was so buggy things like bind
regularly crashed, and even reporting bugs to redhat seemed to serve
no purpose (I even knew some people working at redhat at the time,
and they couldn't even get it to the right people).  At that point I
moved to Debian 2.1 (around 1999).  I have stuck with it since because
it works and I haven't seen any new distribution offer anything better
(Ubuntu is Debian done wrong (fixed release dates equal broken software),
a few other new ones believe in the build everything from source yourself
which is just a stupid waste of compute resources).  At work we use
opensuse (which has certainly shown me why that isn't anymore popular
than it is and why the rpm package format is very much inferior to the
deb package format), and I work with yocto also using rpm packages (in
theory it also could use deb but that isn't the default and hence often
broken in some packages) so I know what a pain making rpm packages is
compared to making deb packages (debhelper tools are wonderful).

So if you want something flexible that works, use Debian, and if you
want a more polished desktop environment out of the box, use Mint
debian edition.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:37 PM William Park via talk  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see
> the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I
> know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.
>
> - Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem
> for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu,
> Xubuntu, etc.
>
> - Oracle -- I use it at work too.  Was CentOS, but switched to Oracle
> because they said delivering end-of-life OS is bad marketing.
>
> - Fedora -- OK.  Doesn't seem to have its equivalent in Ubuntu side.
>
> - OpenSUSE -- Difficult to pin down.  It uses RPM but in their own way.
> It has rolling release (Tumbleweed) and versioned release (Leap).
>
> - Arch -- no.  I don't need/want to learn what they are trying to teach.
>   I run Slackware, so I already know all that.
>
>
Suggest Devuan - - - I'm working on moving more of my systems that way
over time.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[Chris F.A. Johnson via talk]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022, William Park via talk wrote:


Hi All,

I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see 
the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I 
know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.


- Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem 
for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu, 
Xubuntu, etc.


I'm currently running Mint, but I really don't care which distro I use.
I do prefer .deb to .rpm, but it's not that important.

Whichever distro it is, I use WindowMaker as my desktop because of its
configurability.


--
   Chris F.A. Johnson
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[ac via talk]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 00:37:21 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
Hi :)
 
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and
> see the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?
> Yes, I know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.
> 
in the early 2000's or late 90's this post would have been flamebait :)
now we are far more mature and hindsight is perfect. (we even have new
words like flamebait :) ) - some of us (like me) even made their own
Linux distro's and some on this list are in OpenSuse and Fedora and other 
projects.

imnsho, this post in 2022 is all about UI 

and with Google pushing mobile first, developers, of graphic
UI's (even web based like cPanel and many others), are dropping
new UI's that are becoming fast unusable to many of us. (I find myself
spending 100+% more time on console when compared with 10 years ago - as
I can actually and in fact deliver far greater productivity without all the 
overhead, risk and everything else that comes with overly developed UI's)

for my 2c, maybe install some bsd...

all popular Linux distros are great and cool! 

so maybe try all of them - and have fun! :)

> - Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem 
> for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu, 
> Xubuntu, etc.
> 
> - Oracle -- I use it at work too.  Was CentOS, but switched to Oracle 
> because they said delivering end-of-life OS is bad marketing.
> 
> - Fedora -- OK.  Doesn't seem to have its equivalent in Ubuntu side.
> 
> - OpenSUSE -- Difficult to pin down.  It uses RPM but in their own
> way. It has rolling release (Tumbleweed) and versioned release (Leap).
> 
> - Arch -- no.  I don't need/want to learn what they are trying to
> teach. I run Slackware, so I already know all that.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.
> William
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