Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 15:11, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: > You might be able to tell if you have breakers or fuses by how loudly the > landlord swears. Resetting a breaker is easy: just flip the switch back. > Replacing a fuse is worse because you have to have a spare fuse and buy > some more when you run low. You can get breakers shaped like a fuse, with a reset button in the middle, to replace actual fuses. This could reduce the swearing if it's a fuse box. I don't know if the electrical code actually allows these things but it may. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/leviton-mini-push-button-fuse-breaker-120v-assorted-amp-capacities-0523589p.0523589.html -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
I'm not sure what you mean by "electrical feedback". Air conditioners (and fridges and freezers) have compressor motors that might well cause voltage sag when they start up. I would hope that the sag doesn't take the voltage outside of the specified range for power. You might see lights dim a bit. Space heaters are often designed to be 1500 Watts which is only a little bit below the limit for most circuits in a home. In this case, a circuit includes all the things connected to one breaker or fuse on the panel. So if you put another heavy load (eg. toaster) on the same circuit, and run them both at the same time, the breaker will likely pop or the fuse will blow. You might be able to tell if you have breakers or fuses by how loudly the landlord swears. Resetting a breaker is easy: just flip the switch back. Replacing a fuse is worse because you have to have a spare fuse and buy some more when you run low. It isn't easy to remember what things are on each circuit. Some heavy loads (eg. stoves) should be on their own circuit. Everyone knows you should have an inventory but that takes more discipline than most people have. I forget which Fibe service your landlord has: VDSL-based or FTTH (Fiber To The Home). I don't think that either system's modem takes significant power. Most modern electronics isn't too sensitive to power supply voltage problems. The switching power supplies don't blink an eye when they are fed 220V. I just looked at the label of one just now and it said AC 100-240V. I think that they are (accidentally) fairly immune a bunch of noise too. Summary: - yes, you might be getting surges/drooping from the air conditioner(s). I would think that they should be on their own circuits but that may well not be the case. - yes, a space heater can blow a fuse if there are significant other loads on the same circuit. - not many devices are sensitive to those droops unless they are severe - Questions: what problems are you actually observing? What device? What symptoms? | From: Karen Lewellen via talk | such a terrific question! | The problem is in the house. | what I suspect is that, because outlets on my floor share circuits with | outlets on the upper floors, when power changes up there, I get electrical | feedback, or slight surges down here. | I do know that at least one outlet down here shares circuits with items | upstairs because when the space heater provided by my landlord caused a fuse | to blow, he experienced the problem upstairs. | I suspect that outlets in my family room share circuits with outlets upstairs | because there are long windows of time when, after again a change upstairs, | outlets down here, or items connected to them do not work. | I suspect, but cannot prove as I am unsure how Fibe for home draws power, | that it is slightly possible what is happening is that Fibe is drawing hydro | to manage those upstairs outlets impacting mine. | Lastly, given all this largely started when upstairs changed to air | conditioning, I suspect some of those surges come from that change. | does all this resonate? | Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. | Kare | | | | On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | | > If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be | > sure where you need to fix it. | > | > I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address | > problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside | > the house, it probably isn't the best solution. | > | > As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and | > you don't actually know the nature of the problem. | > | > What do you actually know and what do you suspect? | > | > As far as I remember: | > | > - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your | > computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that | > that this cable problem was caused by a power problem | > | > - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged | > something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? | > | > - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. | > I don't remember whether this was a single event | > | > Are there any other symptoms of power problems? | > | > (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office | > seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't | > know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather | > than power-related.) | > | > | From: Karen Lewellen via talk | > | > | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | > | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | > | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | > | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while | > | having | > | o idea how they managed power. | >
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 13:57, James Knott via talk wrote: > AC power is always rated in volt amps. Because of power factor, you > can't use watts. Unless it's a purely resistive load, naturally has a power factor of 1 or has power factor correction. But I don't think we should be complicating the discussion by continuing about this. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On 2023-07-18 13:54, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: If you're buying ones that are rated at some 600W or so (1500 VA - - - - which should be watts but somehow isn't) AC power is always rated in volt amps. Because of power factor, you can't use watts. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 13:08, Scott Allen wrote: > If the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will > need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars. To clarify: The need for more than one UPS is normally due to physical, location constraints. Unless all the equipment you'd like to protect would draw more power than is provided by a single 15 amp circuit, you can put it all on one UPS, as long as the power cords can all reach it. Note that you should only be considering equipment you are concerned about protecting or continuing to run during fairly short power outages. You wouldn't put appliances, or other things that aren't very susceptible to surges or noise, on a UPS. I would make a list of the devices you'd like to protect. For example, your PC and monitor, the Kurzweil reader, a TV?, maybe your internet modem/router?. From that, decide if you need more than one UPS based on their locations and power reach. Determine the current or wattage/VA that each requires. From that, along with considering how long you want the equipment to be able to continue running if there's a power failure, the proper size of the UPS(s) can be figured out. In many cases, the time that the equipment needs to run during a power failure doesn't have to be very long. Just enough time (with some margin) to be able to properly and safely shut the equipment down, then you wait out the power outage before turning everything back on. If you actually want to be able to continue using the equipment for some time during a power failure, then a more expensive UPS with a larger battery may be required for it. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:09 PM Scott Allen via talk wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:49, Karen Lewellen wrote: > > That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip > > will be run? > > Think of a UPS as a power bar. If you can power all of the equipment > you'd like to protect on one power bar or outlet, you need one UPS. If > the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will > need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars. > > If you're buying ones that are rated at some 600W or so (1500 VA - - - - which should be watts but somehow isn't) you might be surprised at what all you can run. The cost in the mid $200 range - - - if I were buying 4 or 5 I think I might be asking for a bit off of each too. One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to count on them too hard. If you drain the battery dead a couple times you capacity is going to hit the toilet! - - - These are short term tools - - - - NOT serious UPS where you have hours of backup. HTH --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:49, Karen Lewellen wrote: > That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip > will be run? Think of a UPS as a power bar. If you can power all of the equipment you'd like to protect on one power bar or outlet, you need one UPS. If the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip will be run? On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote: On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote: Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. If I were you, I'd just put whatever equipment you're concerned about on a UPS. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote: > Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. If I were you, I'd just put whatever equipment you're concerned about on a UPS. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
such a terrific question! The problem is in the house. what I suspect is that, because outlets on my floor share circuits with outlets on the upper floors, when power changes up there, I get electrical feedback, or slight surges down here. I do know that at least one outlet down here shares circuits with items upstairs because when the space heater provided by my landlord caused a fuse to blow, he experienced the problem upstairs. I suspect that outlets in my family room share circuits with outlets upstairs because there are long windows of time when, after again a change upstairs, outlets down here, or items connected to them do not work. I suspect, but cannot prove as I am unsure how Fibe for home draws power, that it is slightly possible what is happening is that fibe is drawing hydro to manage those upstairs outlets impacting mine. Lastly, given all this largely started when upstairs changed to air conditioning, I suspect some of those surges come from that change. does all this resonate? Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. Kare On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be sure where you need to fix it. I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside the house, it probably isn't the best solution. As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and you don't actually know the nature of the problem. What do you actually know and what do you suspect? As far as I remember: - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that that this cable problem was caused by a power problem - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. I don't remember whether this was a single event Are there any other symptoms of power problems? (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather than power-related.) | From: Karen Lewellen via talk | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while having | o idea how they managed power. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:51, Scott Allen wrote: > A conditioner would help against noise but you would likely need > a UPS for brownouts and sags. In anticipation of a possible reply: There's a device called a harmonic transformer that can boost the voltage of a sagging line and also lower overvoltage; more or less an AC voltage regulator. However, these are large, heavy and expensive, even for a single device or circuit. The cost and size of a whole home capable one would be prohibitive. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:27, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: > I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address > problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside > the house, it probably isn't the best solution. Most power surges are external, coming into the house from outside wiring. However, a whole house surge protector would still protect against internal surges, since all the wiring is essentially in parallel. This is especially true if a surge originated on a different circuit than a susceptible device is on because the surge would have to reach the panel (thus the protector) before going to the device's circuit. Internal equipment and wiring is more likely to generate electrical noise, brownouts and power sags. A conditioner would help against noise but you would likely need a UPS for brownouts and sags. Both a conditioner and UPS would usually also provide surge protection. -- Scott --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be sure where you need to fix it. I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside the house, it probably isn't the best solution. As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and you don't actually know the nature of the problem. What do you actually know and what do you suspect? As far as I remember: - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that that this cable problem was caused by a power problem - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. I don't remember whether this was a single event Are there any other symptoms of power problems? (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather than power-related.) | From: Karen Lewellen via talk | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while having | o idea how they managed power. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...
On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 7:04 AM BCLUG via talk wrote: > Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-07-04 03:39: > > > 4. I see an opportunity for SUSE which maintains both an > > enterprise-Linux focus and good community relations. Are they up to > > it? As a longshot maybe even Oracle could try to seize the moment > > and try a charm offensive to attract a community... but that's > > unlikely considered its many burned bridges (Solaris, OpenOffice, > Java) > > That's an interesting idea - the rise of SUSE / OpenSuse. I kinda like the > idea - I don't have personal experience with it, but it seems > well-regarded. > > Seems the whole English speaking world (of podcasters and YouTubers) has a > bit of a blind spot to SUSE and they probably deserve more attention. > > Good call, hope it pans out. > This path just got WAY more interesting. SUSE has committed to creating and maintaining an open source fork of RHEL: https://news.itsfoss.com/suse-rhel-fork/ - Evan --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
In my house I'd add arc welding, but that's just me. Heating metal to 6k C, in a controlled manner... On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:09, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: > Are there actual sparks that you know of? The only kinds of sparks > that I'd accept are > > 1. When you unplug a heavy (inductive?) load, like an ordinary > electric kettle. That seems to be normal. > > 2. Static electricity -- when you get grounded after shuffling across > a carpet when humidity is low (winter, if you have no humidifier). > Also after putting on or off a nylon coat. > > Anything else sounds unsafe. I'm not an expert in these matters. > > | From: Karen Lewellen via talk > > | My landlord has offered a dedicated line in the living room, but I am > unsure > | that will solve the computer problems in my office, sparks from somewhere > | impacting my system. > --- > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org > Unsubscribe from this mailing list > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
On 2023-07-18 11:09, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: 1. When you unplug a heavy (inductive?) load, like an ordinary electric kettle. That seems to be normal. Kettles are not inductive, at least not significantly. They're a resistive load. A motor is an inductive load. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.
Are there actual sparks that you know of? The only kinds of sparks that I'd accept are 1. When you unplug a heavy (inductive?) load, like an ordinary electric kettle. That seems to be normal. 2. Static electricity -- when you get grounded after shuffling across a carpet when humidity is low (winter, if you have no humidifier). Also after putting on or off a nylon coat. Anything else sounds unsafe. I'm not an expert in these matters. | From: Karen Lewellen via talk | My landlord has offered a dedicated line in the living room, but I am unsure | that will solve the computer problems in my office, sparks from somewhere | impacting my system. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
