Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Michael Galea via talk]

On 2023-10-31 01:31, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

| From: Michael Galea via talk 
|
| I priced out various pre-amps online, got over the shock of their price
| and built one from some online plans.

Good on you!

I don't know if this phono pre-amp is any good, but its from an OK brand.
It currently costs $29.99.  There is a newer model with two vacuum
tubes(!).

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You can find an excellent article for the pre-amp here:
https://audioxpress.com/assets/upload/files/BillChristieExternalPhonoPreampAXJul2013.pdf
--
Michael Galea

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:37 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:31 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know if this phono pre-amp is any good, but its from an OK brand.
>> It currently costs $29.99.  There is a newer model with two vacuum
>> tubes(!).
>> 
>
>
> I saw that too. You can also pay nearly $1000 for a cartridge alone. The 
> makers of those things clearly know the audio-snob market to whom they're 
> selling.
>
There were cartridges selling for up to $1800 lots of years ago.
The higher the $$$ the lower the down pressure needed and the wider
the operating parameters iirc.
(But that's from the early 80's so   - - - memory is not infallible - - grin!)

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:31 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:


> I don't know if this phono pre-amp is any good, but its from an OK brand.
> It currently costs $29.99.  There is a newer model with two vacuum
> tubes(!).
> <
> https://www.amazon.ca/Fosi-Audio-Phono-Preamp-Turntable/dp/B08TLRPMDC/ref=sr_1_11
> >


I saw that too. You can also pay nearly $1000 for a cartridge alone. The
makers of those things clearly know the audio-snob market to whom they're
selling.

Congrats on making your own!

- Evan
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Michael Galea via talk 
| 
| I priced out various pre-amps online, got over the shock of their price
| and built one from some online plans.

Good on you!

I don't know if this phono pre-amp is any good, but its from an OK brand.  
It currently costs $29.99.  There is a newer model with two vacuum 
tubes(!).

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Michael Galea via talk]

On 2023-10-29 22:16, William Park via talk wrote:

Hi, a very off topic...

While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player. 
Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a 
set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?


Just a note, I had problems connecting an LP player to a home theater.

My daughter surprised us at Christmas us by having Bay/Bloor radio
refurbish an old Technics turntable.  They did a nice job.

She thought we could just plug it into the existing home theater.  You
can't do that, the Yamaha home theater would not not amplify the
signals from the magnetic cartridge of the LP.

I priced out various pre-amps online, got over the shock of their price
and built one from some online plans.

--
Michael Galea

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[William Park via talk]

Thanks Evans and others.  I found "Value Village" near me, so I'll try 
there.  "Goodwill" and "Salvation Army" are too far.  Online will be 
last resort.  It's not urgent.  $30 (bottle of whisky) s my budget for 
resurrecting the old stereo system.



On 2023-10-30 05:49, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
The best estate-auction site of which I'm aware is Maxsold, which both 
manages auctions and promotes seller-managed ones. You tell it where you 


Most people who want to sell stuff like this while they're alive will 
use sites like Kijiji, Facebook marketplace or even eBay. But Maxsold 


Your ceiling should be no higher than $275 because you can get something 
new for that price 

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[David Thornton via talk]

facebook marketplace.
So much weirdo stuff in there.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 10:16 PM William Park via talk 
wrote:

> Hi, a very off topic...
>
> While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player.
> Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a
> set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?
> --
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


-- 
David Thornton
https://wiki.quadratic.net
https://github.com/drthornt/
https://twitter.com/northdot9/
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 

Good advice about estate auctions and downsizing.

| The best estate-auction site of which I'm aware is Maxsold,

Thanks.  I did not know about that site.

| TMI time: In another message Hugh wrote:
| 
| New receivers often don't support RIAA equalization needed for record
| > players.  You can get an external phonograph pre-amp to do that or you can
| > get an old receiver with a phono input. (Since phonographs are cool again
| > MAYBE phono in has been revived on some   models.)
| 
| 
| In my experience (and my first job was at a stereo store, TAT near
| Yonge-Steeles), a pre-amp might be necessary, but it has nothing to do with
| equalization. Rather, there used to be two stylus-cartridge types used for
| turntables -- ceramic and magnetic. Ceramic cartridges were cheaper and had
| lower-quality sound, but produced high sound levels similar to other
| sources like cassette or CD players. Magnetic cartridges were more
| expensive and accurate, but far quieter and needed a pre-amp. Most
| receivers made from the 70s to the 2000s. and many but not all made today,
| have a separate "phono" input that indicates a pre-amp is built in. Given
| that these days vinyl records are bought for perceived better fidelity,
| ceramic-based cartridges aren't even made anymore; the difference now is
| moving-magnet or moving-coil. And I just shocked myself seeing what can be
| spent on just a cartridge these days, in support of a medium I thought was
| obsolete.
| 
| (Whether the "record player" William has is ceramic or magnetic depends on
| the stylus cartridge installed, not the turntable itself. Most likely
| magnetic.)

These things are arcane.  But there are two different things going on
here.

LPs are recorded in a way to minimize the average width of a track.
Without that, low notes would have large excursions.  This processing
uses the RIAA Equalization Curve.

Signals from other devices (tuners, tape decks, computers, ...) are
not processed this way.

"Moving Coil" cartridges were essentially audiophile things when I paid
attention.  They generated a lower signal level so they needed a
special preamplifier.  For signal integrity, it was felt that this
should be as close to the cartridge as possible and was sometimes
called a "head preamp".  Eventually, the industry came up with a
cheaper/simpler/inferior solution: a (passive) step-up transformer.


So:

- before other processing, a signal from a moving coil cartridge
  needs to be specially boosted.

- any record player signal needs to be fed to an input that reverses
  the RIAA equalization ("phono").  Or processed by a device to
  reverse RIAA before going to a normal audio input.  (It may be that
  new beginner turntables do this themselves since phono inputs are
  almost extinct and explaining this stuff to a customer is hard.)

- other signals must fed to an input that doesn't handle RIAA
  equalization.  Those inputs are labelled almost anything but "phono"
  or synonyms.  For example "audio in", "line in", etc.

In computer networking terms:

- use of a moving coil cartridge is a local decision so the MC pre-amp
  or transformer is a local decision.

- use of RIAA equalization is an interoperation standard.  Essentially
  all LPs require this.
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

I will add one more possible excellent source if you're in no rush, though
to some this might be a bit morbid. But hey, it's Halloween.

As people downsize or die, the contents of their homes are often put up for
auction and very good older equipment can be had for extremely good prices.
This commonly includes older stereo equipment including the very receiver
William needs. I've seen old models of high-end brands such as Marantz and
Denon go for next to nothing because they're all-analogue. (Sometimes
retailers will use this tactic to get rid of thought-unsellable inventory
so there are some "reseller managed" auctions in the mix.)

(BTW, I recall Sanyo as a mid-tier brand in the 70s -- I'd say the current
equivalent in computers would be Acer.)

The best estate-auction site of which I'm aware is Maxsold, which both
manages auctions and promotes seller-managed ones. You tell it where you
live, what you want and what distance you're prepared to go to pick it up,
and it finds all relevant auctions. Here is the first thing I found when
looking :
receiver, equalizer and multi-disc CD player sold as one lot (you have to
buy them together). Current bid is $1 and closes in six days; if you have
the winning bid you have to pick it up at a specific place and date. Much
of the stuff sold like this is as-is, but usually the owner will report if
it's in working condition. Auctions usually last for a week or two but
there are new ones all the time.

Most people who want to sell stuff like this while they're alive will use
sites like Kijiji, Facebook marketplace or even eBay. But Maxsold also
makes sense if you have a lot of stuff to get rid of after spring cleaning,
it will bring more money than a yard sale.

Your ceiling should be no higher than $275 because you can get something
new for that price
.
But using one of the sites above you should be able to get something for a
fraction of that.

TMI time: In another message Hugh wrote:

New receivers often don't support RIAA equalization needed for record
> players.  You can get an external phonograph pre-amp to do that or you can
> get an old receiver with a phono input. (Since phonographs are cool again
> MAYBE phono in has been revived on some   models.)


In my experience (and my first job was at a stereo store, TAT near
Yonge-Steeles), a pre-amp might be necessary, but it has nothing to do with
equalization. Rather, there used to be two stylus-cartridge types used for
turntables -- ceramic and magnetic. Ceramic cartridges were cheaper and had
lower-quality sound, but produced high sound levels similar to other
sources like cassette or CD players. Magnetic cartridges were more
expensive and accurate, but far quieter and needed a pre-amp. Most
receivers made from the 70s to the 2000s. and many but not all made today,
have a separate "phono" input that indicates a pre-amp is built in. Given
that these days vinyl records are bought for perceived better fidelity,
ceramic-based cartridges aren't even made anymore; the difference now is
moving-magnet or moving-coil. And I just shocked myself seeing what can be
spent on just a cartridge these days, in support of a medium I thought was
obsolete.

(Whether the "record player" William has is ceramic or magnetic depends on
the stylus cartridge installed, not the turntable itself. Most likely
magnetic.)

HTH,
Evan




On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 10:17 PM William Park via talk 
wrote:

> Hi, a very off topic...
>
> While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player.
> Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a
> set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?
> --
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


-- 
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
@evanleibovitch / @el56
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: William Park via talk 

| While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player. Brand name
| "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a set.  Do you know
| where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?

Adding to what others have said:

- new receivers often don't support RIAA equalization needed for
  record players.  You can get an external phonograph pre-amp to do
  that or you can get an old receiver with a phono input.  (Since
  phonographs are cool again MAYBE phono in has been revived on some
  models.)

- AM and FM are fading out too.  AM goes first -- it really sounds 
  terrible, at least in North America.

- you might want some new features like Bluetooth so you can send
  sound from your phone, tablet, or computer without wires.

- Back in the day, the nominal speakers were 8 Ohms impedance.  But
  bundled systems like yours were often 4 Ohms.  If you are
  calculating Watts, this makes a difference.  I never worried about
  this because I never pushed the edge.  I guess "impedance matching"
  is a thing too, but I didn't think about it.

The latest Hi Fi gizmo we bought was something like this:

- it doesn't have a tuner
- it doesn't have a phono equalizer
- it doesn't have a switch for multiple inputs
but it is small and efficient.
We use it for ancient iPod => good 1980 speakers.
Ours has no Bluetooth.

AliExpress has these things for laughably low prices but they often
come without full cases and power supplies.  I think that they are
meant for car sound systems (12v power in).

Here's one at Amazon, with a full case, and multiple inputs, FM tuner
(no AM), but they don't mention that you need to provide a 12V / 3A
power supply.  No phonograph in.  Quality is unknown to me.

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Karen Lewellen via talk]

Hi William,
depending on the age,
Perhaps  ring audio can match the set exactly.
At least give you a price compare  with bay /bloor radio.
Kare



On Sun, 29 Oct 2023, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:


William,

  New ones are not all that expensive.  Check out Bay Bloor Radio.  I still 
have the Harmon Kardon 230E I bought 40 years ago.  I have connected the 
auxilliary port to a computer (Fedora_33). and it does a great job of playing 
YouTube.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 22:16:25 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:


Hi, a very off topic...

While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player.
Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a
set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?
--
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--
Howard Gibson
hgib...@eol.ca
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Howard Gibson via talk]

William,

   New ones are not all that expensive.  Check out Bay Bloor Radio.  I still 
have the Harmon Kardon 230E I bought 40 years ago.  I have connected the 
auxilliary port to a computer (Fedora_33). and it does a great job of playing 
YouTube. 

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 22:16:25 -0400
William Park via talk  wrote:

> Hi, a very off topic...
> 
> While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player. 
> Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a 
> set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?
> -- 
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[Don Tai via talk]

garage sales, thrift stores, my basement??

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 at 22:16, William Park via talk  wrote:

> Hi, a very off topic...
>
> While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player.
> Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a
> set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?
> --
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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[GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[William Park via talk]

Hi, a very off topic...

While cleaning my house, I found box speakers and LP record player. 
Brand name "Sanyo".  What's missing is AM/FM receiver that came as a 
set.  Do you know where I can buy an old stereo AM/FM receiver?

--
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