Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 11:19:32AM -0400, Sammy Lao via talk wrote:
> The big advantage with ChromeOS (and running Linux inside ChromeOS) is that 
> you can use Android apps.

Well some Android Apps.  I have run into many apps that won't run on
the kids's chromebooks so far.  Most of them use intel CPUs not ARM which
seems to cause issues for some apps that have some native code libraries,
and don't even think about sideloading android apps on them.

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Colin McGregor via talk]

On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 6:41 PM Michael Galea via talk 
wrote:

> I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
> don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.
>
> If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
> - Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
> encrypt the disk?
> - If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
> - Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?
>
>
Just a thought,

Mid June I bought a new bottom end Windows 10 laptop from Costco (
https://www.costco.ca/asus-vivobook-w202na-c1-ca-laptop%2c-n3350.product.100816284.html
). It is what you would expect from a laptop at that price point, nothing
really wrong with it, but nothing really right with it either. You do have
to have a Costco membership to buy it (I do). It was easy to blow away
Windows 10 and replace it with Debian. All the integrated peripherals seem
to be supported just fine under Debian (webcam, audio, microphone, WiFi,
etc.).

Something to consider.


Colin.


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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Sammy Lao via talk]

Michael:

The big advantage with ChromeOS (and running Linux inside ChromeOS) is that you 
can use Android apps.

How come you are not using the Android version of Wireguard or OpenVPN?


> On Sep 15, 2022, at 00:58, Michael Galea via talk  wrote:
> 
> On 2022-09-01 21:00, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
>>> On 2022-08-26 18:40, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
>>> I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
>>> don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.
>>> 
>>> If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
>>> - Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
>>> encrypt the disk?
>>> - If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
>>> - Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?
>>> 
>> Thanks to Colin, Hugh and others for their advice.
>> I went with the Lenovo Ideapad 3 11", mainly because of the weight.
>> Setup was straightforward, and performance was surprisingly good.
>> I installed the latest Debian on it but found that ChromeOS would not use 
>> Debian's kernel.  This breaks wireguard VPN as debian builds a kernel module 
>> that matches the resident kernel.
>> There is a voodoo approach to flashing the chromebook with debian directly 
>> but this version is new enough to not be supported by the tool chains that 
>> are out there, and I am cowardly.
>> So for now I'll use Linux to ssh and mutt while away. In retrospect, I 
>> should have taken Colin's advice and blown away the Windows laptop with 
>> debian.
> 
> The final point I have arrived at with running Linux on Chromebook is:
> 1) I'm running Debian Bullseye in the Linux container on the chromebook.
> 2) I can ssh home through a hole in the firewall opened by knockd.
> 3) I can vnc home through a hole opened by knockd.
> 4) I can raise a VPN home using the StrongVPN wireguard android app.
> 5) I have ran gimp, calibre and thunderbird on chromebook from the Linux
> container.
> 
> Its #4 that is giving me pause. I have to have real trust in the StrongVPN 
> app which I can't audit.  The company, which offers commercial access for 
> their own VPN, seems to get rave reviews.  Does anyone on the list have any 
> experience with strongVPN?
> 
> -- 
> Michael Galea
> 
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Michael Galea via talk]

On 2022-09-01 21:00, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

On 2022-08-26 18:40, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.

If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
- Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
encrypt the disk?
- If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
- Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?


Thanks to Colin, Hugh and others for their advice.

I went with the Lenovo Ideapad 3 11", mainly because of the weight.
Setup was straightforward, and performance was surprisingly good.

I installed the latest Debian on it but found that ChromeOS would not 
use Debian's kernel.  This breaks wireguard VPN as debian builds a 
kernel module that matches the resident kernel.


There is a voodoo approach to flashing the chromebook with debian 
directly but this version is new enough to not be supported by the tool 
chains that are out there, and I am cowardly.


So for now I'll use Linux to ssh and mutt while away. In retrospect, I 
should have taken Colin's advice and blown away the Windows laptop with 
debian.




A final (I promise) update on my Linux on Chromebook odyssey.  My final
state is:

1) I'm running Debian Bullseye in the Linux container on the chromebook.
2) I can ssh home through a hole in the firewall opened by knockd.
3) I can vnc home through a hole opened by knockd.
4) I can raise a VPN home using the StrongVPN wireguard android app.
5) I have ran gimp, calibre and thunderbird on chromebook from the Linux
container.

Its #4 that is giving me pause. I have to have real trust in the 
StrongVPN app which I can't audit.  The company, which offers commercial 
access for their own VPN, seems to get rave reviews.  Does anyone on the 
list have any experience with strongVPN? I am thinking some in the 
community might use their commercial products.


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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 

| | From: o1bigtenor via talk 

| | Can't find anything searching using Lenovo E100 Gen 2  - - - -

Try searching using Lenovo 100e Gen 2 -- slightly different.  You
might find leaving our the "Gen 2" helps.

| There is surely a key sequence during booting.  But the timing window 
| might be narrow.  And sometimes your system boots into a mode where you 
| have to type the function key to type the key you want.

This looks useful: 


Since the notebook was designed for students, maybe it was set up to be
hard to get to the UEFI firmware setup screen.

| But: you can ask Windows to boot into UEFI setup.  It is annoyingly 
| intricate.  Here's the first google hit:
| 

If you install Linux, you will still want a way to get to the UEFI setup 
screen.  This leaves you with a problem if you cannot get in with the 
magic-key-during-boot method.  Fedora seems to include a grub menu item to 
go to UEFI setup.  I don't know about other distros.
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

[I sure hope that the mailing list is working for all.]
| From: o1bigtenor via talk 

| On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 11:00 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
|  wrote:
| >
| > A dirt cheap Windows netbook.  Not very good (screen is TN 1366 x 768).
| > Should easily run Linux.
| >
| > 
https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/lenovo/windows-edu-laptops/lenovo-100e-2nd-gen-(amd)/len101l0021

Lenovo is doing weird things.  My guess is that they are cleaning up the 
inventory of computers that were aimed at kids doing remote classes during 
the pademic.

Last night they had a Lenovo 14w model with an FullHD IP screen and an 
NVMe drive for $190.  Gone today.  Sometimes they come back.


They currently have a 14w with a FullHD 
TN screen and an eMMC drive for $172.72.


The former is so much better.

| Managed to get one of these.
| 
| Want to use it for digital books from the public library and maybe a
| little more.
| I would like to install *nix on it but - - - -
| am having a hard time finding any information for how to access the bios.
| (So that I can get it to boot from a usb stick where I have a web
| install version
| of the OS I want.)
| 
| Can't find anything searching using Lenovo E100 Gen 2  - - - -
| 
| please - - - - ideas???

There is surely a key sequence during booting.  But the timing window 
might be narrow.  And sometimes your system boots into a mode where you 
have to type the function key to type the key you want.

But: you can ask Windows to boot into UEFI setup.  It is annoyingly 
intricate.  Here's the first google hit:


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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Michael Galea via talk]

On 2022-09-01 21:00, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

On 2022-08-26 18:40, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.

If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
- Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
encrypt the disk?
- If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
- Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?


Thanks to Colin, Hugh and others for their advice.

I went with the Lenovo Ideapad 3 11", mainly because of the weight.
Setup was straightforward, and performance was surprisingly good.

I installed the latest Debian on it but found that ChromeOS would not 
use Debian's kernel.  This breaks wireguard VPN as debian builds a 
kernel module that matches the resident kernel.


There is a voodoo approach to flashing the chromebook with debian 
directly but this version is new enough to not be supported by the tool 
chains that are out there, and I am cowardly.


So for now I'll use Linux to ssh and mutt while away. In retrospect, I 
should have taken Colin's advice and blown away the Windows laptop with 
debian.




The final point I have arrived at with running Linux on Chromebook is:
1) I'm running Debian Bullseye in the Linux container on the chromebook.
2) I can ssh home through a hole in the firewall opened by knockd.
3) I can vnc home through a hole opened by knockd.
4) I can raise a VPN home using the StrongVPN wireguard android app.
5) I have ran gimp, calibre and thunderbird on chromebook from the Linux
container.

Its #4 that is giving me pause. I have to have real trust in the 
StrongVPN app which I can't audit.  The company, which offers commercial 
access for their own VPN, seems to get rave reviews.  Does anyone on the 
list have any experience with strongVPN?


--
Michael Galea

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 11:00 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> A dirt cheap Windows netbook.  Not very good (screen is TN 1366 x 768).
> Should easily run Linux.
>
> https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/lenovo/windows-edu-laptops/lenovo-100e-2nd-gen-(amd)/len101l0021
>

Managed to get one of these.

Want to use it for digital books from the public library and maybe a
little more.
I would like to install *nix on it but - - - -
am having a hard time finding any information for how to access the bios.
(So that I can get it to boot from a usb stick where I have a web
install version
of the OS I want.)

Can't find anything searching using Lenovo E100 Gen 2  - - - -

please - - - - ideas???

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Giles Orr via talk]

I used to go to Detroit a lot with geeky friends, and we pretty much
always visited Microcenter.  Although I haven't gone in years.
Stewart's message suggests there isn't stock of this particular item
as close as Detroit, but ... for most people on this list, I think
you'd enjoy a visit to Microcenter if you get the chance.  Fun place -
imagine, if you will, a bigger and even geekier Canada Computers, with
the added bonus of (mostly) cheaper American prices.

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 19:53, Stewart C. Russell via talk
 wrote:
>
> Someone at the Raspberry Pi meetup last night mentioned the Evolve III
> Maestro 11.6" educational laptop, if anyone's looking for a *really*
> cheap laptop. I don't know of anyone selling it in Canada at a
> reasonable price, but Micro Center - a brick & mortar electronics store
> in the USA - is selling them for US $60 (~ $78). Unfortunately, the
> nearest store with stock is likely a day and half's drive away, plus
> border crossing and all that faff. User reviews on Reddit are not super
> positive.
>
> The machine is incredibly barebones, but the fact it even works at all
> is quite impressive at this price:
> https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestro-116-laptop-computer-dark-grey
>
> This was in response to me introducing the frankly overpriced pi-top [4]
> Raspberry Pi 4-based "tablet": https://www.pi-top.com/products/pi-top-4
> It might have a glorious touchscreen, but a tablet it ain't.
>
>   Stewart
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https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

Someone at the Raspberry Pi meetup last night mentioned the Evolve III 
Maestro 11.6" educational laptop, if anyone's looking for a *really* 
cheap laptop. I don't know of anyone selling it in Canada at a 
reasonable price, but Micro Center - a brick & mortar electronics store 
in the USA - is selling them for US $60 (~ $78). Unfortunately, the 
nearest store with stock is likely a day and half's drive away, plus 
border crossing and all that faff. User reviews on Reddit are not super 
positive.


The machine is incredibly barebones, but the fact it even works at all 
is quite impressive at this price:

https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestro-116-laptop-computer-dark-grey

This was in response to me introducing the frankly overpriced pi-top [4] 
Raspberry Pi 4-based "tablet": https://www.pi-top.com/products/pi-top-4

It might have a glorious touchscreen, but a tablet it ain't.

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[James Knott via talk]

On 2022-08-30 11:13, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

A $99.99 chromebook available from Best Buy (deal ends Sept 1).  Screen is
TN, which I avoid, but it is probably OK, especially at this price.



I bought one of these last week and have enabled Linux on it (very easy 
to do).  Now, I'm getting used to the Debian¹ way of doing things and 
have installed a few Linux apps.


1. I run openSUSE.

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

A dirt cheap Windows netbook.  Not very good (screen is TN 1366 x 768).  
Should easily run Linux.

https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/lenovo/windows-edu-laptops/lenovo-100e-2nd-gen-(amd)/len101l0021

$126.72 today and tomorrow, I think.  If supplies last.


=

If you want a ChromeeBook, this very good deal blinks in and out of 
availability.  Mostly out.  I bought one yesterday.  Buy the version with 
the IPS screen and the pen.



$189.  1920 x 1080 IPS screen.  Backlit keyboard.  ThinkPad brand.  Can 
fold keyboard underneath to make a tablet.
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Michael Galea via talk]

On 2022-08-26 18:40, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.

If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
- Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
encrypt the disk?
- If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
- Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?


Thanks to Colin, Hugh and others for their advice.

I went with the Lenovo Ideapad 3 11", mainly because of the weight.
Setup was straightforward, and performance was surprisingly good.

I installed the latest Debian on it but found that ChromeOS would not 
use Debian's kernel.  This breaks wireguard VPN as debian builds a 
kernel module that matches the resident kernel.


There is a voodoo approach to flashing the chromebook with debian 
directly but this version is new enough to not be supported by the tool 
chains that are out there, and I am cowardly.


So for now I'll use Linux to ssh and mutt while away. In retrospect, I 
should have taken Colin's advice and blown away the Windows laptop with 
debian.


--
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[William Park via talk]

I have HP Chromebook 11 G3 (PS. don't get this.  It chewed up original 
battery and replacement battery.)  Itemized reply below...


On 2022-08-26 18:40, Michael Galea via talk wrote:

I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.

If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
- Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
encrypt the disk?


I haven't wipe out ChromeOS.  It came with it, so I kept it.


- If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?


I tried Kubuntu/Ubuntu via crouton.  It's shell script and installs 
Linux distro as chroot.  You get full graphic desktop, unlike WSL which 
is just text terminal.  I don't see why VPN shouldn't work.



- Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?


Depends what you want to do.  Personally, Chromebook is waste of money. 
 I'd recommend Windows laptops.  You can wipe it out, do dual boot, use 
WSL, or run Linux on Hyper-V VM.

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

A $99.99 chromebook available from Best Buy (deal ends Sept 1).  Screen is 
TN, which I avoid, but it is probably OK, especially at this price.


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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

Other bargains to consider:
If you go to this link, you will find it unavailable BUT you will be 
offered three alternatives at sub $200 prices.  Or at least I am.

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Michael Galea via talk 

| If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:

I actually recommend low-spec Windows notebooks.

Lenovo has sold a few recently but their delivery horizon is perhaps
too long or unpredicatable.  I recently bought this (no longer
available; delivery pending):


It is easy to run a Linux subsystem under ChromeOS: it is an option
that ChromeOS explicitly provides.

There are a few limitations on the subsystem, at least on my ChromeOS
tablet:

- I can run graphical programs but, with only a few minutes of trying,
  I haven't been able to run a Desktop Environment on my ChromeOS
  device.

- graphical Linux programs run, but the ChromeOS simulated keyboard
  won't work for them.

- without a Linux DE, I don't know how to start up a Linux simulated
  keyboard.

So on the ChromeOS tablet, the Linux subsystem is useful but not a
replacement for a Linux tablet.  I could use a physical keyboard but
then it is no longer a tablet.

| - Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
| encrypt the disk?

I haven't tried this recently.

I expect that it is easy-ish, but you need an X86-based ChromeBook.
This is not required for the Linux subsystem under ChromeOS.

Read these Installing/Preparing instructions for GalliumOS, which is
meant for this purpose.  Note that they haven't changed in 2.5 years so
they might be stale:


| - If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?

I don't know.

| - Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?

Depends on what you want to do.  Bare minimum ChromeOS machines are
also bare minimum Linux machines.  The tightest resource is "disk":
chrome disks are small (as small as 32G) and slow (eMMC), but do work
for Linux.  RAM is usually 4G or more which is fine for Linux.

If you want to run the Linux subsystem under ChromeOS, 32G of eMMC
works but is a bit tight.

Bottom line: this may be more trouble than it is worth.  It is wise to
decide before you start.

Additional tip:
ChromeOS devices have a pre-announced End of Support.  Usually is a
considerable number of years in the future.  But refurb ones might
have a limited remaining life.  Look that up before buying.
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[GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[Michael Galea via talk]

I am hoping to tap the wisdom of the list.  I'm going traveling and I
don't want to lug around my 5.2 pound T420. Not on this trip.

If I buy a cheap refurb Chromebook from Best Buy or Canada Computers:
- Will I have luck wiping ChromeOS and installing Debian? Can I still
encrypt the disk?
- If instead I just run Linux on Chromebook, can I run a wireguard VPN?
- Can anyone recommend a minimum spec level for the machine?

--
Thanks, Michael Galea
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