Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04? (Mostly, Wayland is Not Fit for Purpose)

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

Thanks for all the responses. I've mostly got things working, but Hugh's
comment about Wayland being “[c]ompatible for X applications.  Not
users” rings true. It's a horrid thing to dump on users, suddenly
finding that Ctrl-X,C,V no longer work, and familiar apps fail silently.

The main (and most annoying, because it was blocking a password manager
and bank logins I had to do in a hurry) culprit was Firefox. In order
for copy and paste to work, it seems you have to set

MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1

Very oddly, xclip still works. It probably shouldn't. I'm glad it does,
as I've based pbcopy/pbpaste clones (they're a mac thing) on top of it
and they get heavy, heavy usage.

For screenshotting, Gnome Screenshot seems to be what I have to use.
Can't seem to find something for the command line:

* ImageMagick's import (thanks for the suggestion, Mario) doesn't work
with Wayland: "unable to read X window image `root': Resource
temporarily unavailable"

* Wayland's own command line screenshot tool 'grim' doesn't work either:
"wl_registry@2: error 0: invalid version for global wl_output (4): have
2, wanted 3
 ... compositor doesn't support wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1". This is
coming on for Windows Quality Software usefulness.

I'm also making heavier use of Firefox's Take Screenshot browser action:
hit Ctrl + Shift + S on (almost) any page, and you can save the visible
area, the whole page, or even a block element and it'll copy or save as
you wish.

Having a huge block with desktop sharing: VNC doesn't seem to have
access to the screen at all any more. A pain, because VNC is how I
access most of my remote machines. "ssh -X" is lumpy and painfully slow
under Wayland.

I'm having seemingly random Gnome apps needing

GDK_BACKEND=x11

or else they'll core dump. But this doesn't happen too often.

I realize a small amount of change is necessary in every upgrade: hey,
I'm still on team "Mouse-over to focus is best, fight me" from my Sun
days, but that was something we lost more than a decade ago. But for me,
this is an equivalent UX change of "alias emacs=vi", and I thought Linux
didn't do open user hostility any more.

cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Mauro Souza via talk]

For screenshots I use flameshot, I am using RedHat but I believe it should
be a package for Ubuntu. I used Shutter before that for a long time, and
ended up building it on RedHat because it was deprecated, but now the build
process is painful and Flameshot fits the bill.
If you have imagemagick, import can screenshot for you. Pop up a terminal,
run sleep 1 ; import -window root /tmp/whatever.png , minimize the terminal
and done. I use it for my still work in progress home-made workday logging
tool. I capture the screen every minute, use imagemagick compare to
quantify how much the window changed since the last time, and if it changed
it will screenshot it, save to a capture directory, run tesseract on it,
and index on elasticsearch. And I wrote a small PHP script to search on
those archives. It's on https://github.com/thoriumbr/SuperBusca if someone
is interested. It runs on a container, so it should not pollute your system
if you just want to test.

For FTP I use Filezilla, but some people like gFTP, or you can use
Nautilus, it has FTP capability.

Mauro
https://www.maurosouza.com - registered Linux User: 294521
Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.


Em sáb., 5 de jun. de 2021 às 11:50, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> escreveu:

> | From: Stewart C. Russell via talk 
>
> | Hi - so browsers don't support ftp:// links any more
> | ,
>
> I knew that was coming.  I didn't understand the reason.  But the release
> notes surely have a rationale.
>
> FTP-through-NAT, especially through firewalls, is a real hack.
>
> FTP has no built-in authentication or encryption.
>
> | and
> | I was wondering what people used as a drop-in app?
>
> CLI all the way!  I've always used wget(1).  With the -N flag.
>
> - this gets me a copy: I always worry that archives go away.
>
> - this gets me the timestamp.  I find timestamps very useful for
>   archived material.
>
> | this change came out of nowhere.
>
> I understand that this happened some time ago with Chrom*.  (I don't
> use them much.)
>
>
> | Also, my go-to screenshot thingy /*scrot*/ no longer works on Ubuntu
> | 21.04:
>
> gnome-screenshot AKA ScreenShot should work.
>
> On Fedora, I type:
>
> "Windows-key" to show activities
>
> "s c r e" into the search box.  ScreenShot should be its first
> suggestion
>
> "ENTER" to run that suggestion.
>
> I hope that description is less painful to decode than it was to
> encode.
>
> | My keyboard doesn't have a PrtSc key so I can't use any of the built-in
> | screenshot tools.
>
> I bet you could map this function onto something else on your
> keyboard.  I've not done it.
>
> | Is this a Wayland thing? I thought Wayland was
> | supposed to be compatible with X?
>
> Compatible for X applications.  Not users.
>
> I'm a moderately pliable and undemanding user.  Wayland is fine for
> me.
>
> My desktop is another matter.  It has an nvidia card.  Old enough that
> nouveau supports it.  But the few times I've tried nouveau, it
> misbehaved.  So I use the proprietary driver.  It doesn't get along
> with Wayland.  So I'm still on X.
>
> All my many other devices run Wayland.  Except possibly the laptop
> with an nvidia GPU.
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 12:31 PM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 at 19:28, Stewart C. Russell via talk
>  wrote:
> >
> > also it seems this upgrade has borked xclip, which is a can't-live-without
> >
> > Did anyone think Wayland was a good idea? A desktop without a working
> > clipboard?? And by working, I mean "the way it always did before"
>
> When change makes things better, we love it.  When it interferes with
> the way we work, we hate it.  But the reality is that Linux has to
> evolve.  And you can either learn how to rewrite 'xclip' yourself or
> find a replacement if it doesn't work anymore.  That's the wonder and
> horror of open source.  Yes, Wayland is causing a lot of grief.  But
> go talk to Scott about it sometime: he's got me convinced that it's a
> very good idea ... we just have to struggle through the rough spots.
>

Hmm - - - - well - - - - I've been running a multi-gpu system since
early 2012. Initially I ran the nvidia proprietary drivers and SLI. Later I
switched to nouveau. For 4 monitors that worked not too bad. Then I needed
to replace a gpu. Then decided to add a 4k monitor. The 5th monitor
has really shown a lot of cracks in the underlying systems. It seems that
HDMI code is not where it needs to be. I got tired of graphics subsystem
freezes so I am presently not using the 5th monitor. I had tried nvidia's
proprietary code - - - - except its now adamantly anti multi-gpu so there
is this wonderful hole that seems to be quite ignored by the dev community.
I've had many ask why I would want all that screen real estate - - - -
I wouldn't
want to work without it!
Wayland - - - - no way even close to allowing such (multi-gpu + multi-monitor)
- - - - so - - - from me it gets a shrug - - - - I've got enough
issues without trying
to pummel Wayland into something useful. I understand that Xorg is severely
pooh poohed - - - still works better than any of the alternatives - -
- - - wish it
handled multi-lingual better than it does.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Giles Orr via talk]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 at 19:28, Stewart C. Russell via talk
 wrote:
>
> also it seems this upgrade has borked xclip, which is a can't-live-without
>
> Did anyone think Wayland was a good idea? A desktop without a working
> clipboard?? And by working, I mean "the way it always did before"

When change makes things better, we love it.  When it interferes with
the way we work, we hate it.  But the reality is that Linux has to
evolve.  And you can either learn how to rewrite 'xclip' yourself or
find a replacement if it doesn't work anymore.  That's the wonder and
horror of open source.  Yes, Wayland is causing a lot of grief.  But
go talk to Scott about it sometime: he's got me convinced that it's a
very good idea ... we just have to struggle through the rough spots.

In other news: I really liked 'scrot' too.  I've switched to
'flameshot', which is a radically different tool.  It's graphical and
much more flexible - it may or may not work for you.

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Stewart C. Russell via talk 

| Hi - so browsers don't support ftp:// links any more
| ,

I knew that was coming.  I didn't understand the reason.  But the release 
notes surely have a rationale.

FTP-through-NAT, especially through firewalls, is a real hack.

FTP has no built-in authentication or encryption.

| and
| I was wondering what people used as a drop-in app?

CLI all the way!  I've always used wget(1).  With the -N flag.

- this gets me a copy: I always worry that archives go away.

- this gets me the timestamp.  I find timestamps very useful for
  archived material.

| this change came out of nowhere.

I understand that this happened some time ago with Chrom*.  (I don't
use them much.)


| Also, my go-to screenshot thingy /*scrot*/ no longer works on Ubuntu
| 21.04: 

gnome-screenshot AKA ScreenShot should work.

On Fedora, I type:

"Windows-key" to show activities

"s c r e" into the search box.  ScreenShot should be its first
suggestion

"ENTER" to run that suggestion.

I hope that description is less painful to decode than it was to
encode.

| My keyboard doesn't have a PrtSc key so I can't use any of the built-in
| screenshot tools.

I bet you could map this function onto something else on your
keyboard.  I've not done it.

| Is this a Wayland thing? I thought Wayland was
| supposed to be compatible with X?

Compatible for X applications.  Not users.

I'm a moderately pliable and undemanding user.  Wayland is fine for
me.

My desktop is another matter.  It has an nvidia card.  Old enough that
nouveau supports it.  But the few times I've tried nouveau, it
misbehaved.  So I use the proprietary driver.  It doesn't get along
with Wayland.  So I'm still on X.

All my many other devices run Wayland.  Except possibly the laptop
with an nvidia GPU.
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

also it seems this upgrade has borked xclip, which is a can't-live-without

Did anyone think Wayland was a good idea? A desktop without a working
clipboard?? And by working, I mean "the way it always did before"

 Stewart


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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 2021-06-04 6:28 p.m., Alex Volkov wrote:
> 
> Krusader for example,

Thanks, Alex - I should've said: no KDE. I don't, I can't, I won't.

And how about that application name, eh? Probbo or what?

 Stewart


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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:42:05 -0400
"Stewart C. Russell via talk"  wrote:

> Also, my go-to screenshot thingy /*scrot*/ no longer works on Ubuntu
> 21.04: it gives me this:
> 
> X Error of failed request:  BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window
> parameter)   Major opcode of failed request:  14 (X_GetGeometry)  
> Resource id in failed request:  0x0   Serial number of failed request: 
> 8   Current serial number in output stream:  8

Stewart,

   I always use GIMP for screen and window captures.  It never occurred to me 
there was another way.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Alex Volkov via talk]

Hi Stewart,

Not that I actively use ftp, but all of the Norton Commander-like file 
managers that I use still have FTP support.


Krusader for example,




Also a more classic and very much TUI implementation of the same 
interface -- Midnight commander, has FTP support



Alex.

On 2021-06-04 5:42 p.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:


Hi - so browsers don't support ftp:// links any more 
, 
and I was wondering what people used as a drop-in app? I'd prefer if 
it weren't Filezilla, as that thing was a bug-ridden mess of spyware 
last time I looked at it. Most of the very old computer documentation 
I use lives on FTP sites, and this change came out of nowhere.


Also, my go-to screenshot thingy /*scrot*/ no longer works on Ubuntu 
21.04: it gives me this:


X Error of failed request:  BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window 
parameter)   Major opcode of failed request:  14 (X_GetGeometry)   
Resource id in failed request:  0x0   Serial number of failed 
request:  8   Current serial number in output stream:  8


My keyboard doesn't have a PrtSc key so I can't use any of the 
built-in screenshot tools. Is this a Wayland thing? I thought Wayland 
was supposed to be compatible with X?


cheers,

 Stewart



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[GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

Hi - so browsers don't support ftp:// links any more
, and
I was wondering what people used as a drop-in app? I'd prefer if it
weren't Filezilla, as that thing was a bug-ridden mess of spyware last
time I looked at it. Most of the very old computer documentation I use
lives on FTP sites, and this change came out of nowhere.

Also, my go-to screenshot thingy /*scrot*/ no longer works on Ubuntu
21.04: it gives me this:

X Error of failed request:  BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window
parameter)   Major opcode of failed request:  14 (X_GetGeometry)  
Resource id in failed request:  0x0   Serial number of failed request: 
8   Current serial number in output stream:  8

My keyboard doesn't have a PrtSc key so I can't use any of the built-in
screenshot tools. Is this a Wayland thing? I thought Wayland was
supposed to be compatible with X?

cheers,

 Stewart


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