Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Gerald A]

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I am quite confused now about dragging the map. Many have said that
> using the mouse with JOSM on the Macs does not work very well. But
> then I am told you can use Ctrl "rightclick simulation" to do the
> dragging, and others again say that some applications would use the
> space bar a a modifier key. Why would they, if Ctrl is already built
> in? If somebody can tell me exactly how you would like JOSM to behave
> on a mousically challenged system then we could maybe fix that... my
> first shot would have been supporting a modifier key but obviously
> OSX does that already with Ctrl and it seems not to be what people want?
>

Really, the easiest thing to do is to re-map the right button on the Mighty
Mouse to "mouse button 2", rather then it's default "mouse button 1" (like
the left button). While I love my Mac, I'm much too used to conventional 3
button mice to accept the "one true button" philosophy of Macdom. I suspect
even hardcore Mac fans click on the left side now for the most part.

It's not huge magic, and I think it's even a user config option, if the
dealer will be setting up users for the show. I don't think they'll even
object, since most PC users (and they account for 90%+ of computer users)
are used to "right-clicking".

This way, the pretty mouse functions like most other mice. And it shows that
OS X has flexibility. :)

Gerald.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Dermot McNally]

2008/4/22 Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>  I am quite confused now about dragging the map. Many have said that
>  using the mouse with JOSM on the Macs does not work very well. But
>  then I am told you can use Ctrl "rightclick simulation" to do the
>  dragging, and others again say that some applications would use the
>  space bar a a modifier key. Why would they, if Ctrl is already built
>  in?

It's worth addressing this in isolation. As long as the mice supplied
are mighty mice, (and we're told that's the only sort now used), no
problem...

BUT: By default, the right side of the mighty mouse will be mapped to
button 1 just like the left side. Although Ctrl-click seems to be the
MacOS way of right-clicking when you don't have a second button, in my
couple of years of owning Macs I've never ever done this. Just fire up
the mouse preferences and use the visual control panel to map button 2
and button 3 and you'll be able to use JOSM as you normally do, and
that includes using the wheel to zoom. I happen to choose to use a
Microsoft mouse on my home Mac (my mighty mouse is a lemon whose
right-click doesn't work well), but mapped correctly the Mighty Mouse
behaves sufficiently like any normal mouse not to cause you any
problems.

But do test the right-clicking in good time just in case you too get a
lemon - alert the sponsor to the problem and he'll no doubt be
motivated to swap the mouse out.

Dermot

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Richard Fairhurst]

Frederik Ramm wrote:

> I am quite confused now about dragging the map. Many have said that
> using the mouse with JOSM on the Macs does not work very well. But
> then I am told you can use Ctrl "rightclick simulation" to do the
> dragging, and others again say that some applications would use the
> space bar a a modifier key. Why would they, if Ctrl is already built
> in?

Ctrl-click means "contextual menu".

Space-drag in many applications (e.g. anything by Adobe) means "drag  
canvas". (You can often also do this by selecting a "hand" tool.)

The fact that most apps use right-click for the former, and JOSM uses  
right-click for the latter, is by the by really.

cheers
Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Shaun McDonald]

On 22 Apr 2008, at 12:43, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> [...]
>
> Ok I'm now convinced that I can use the Macs.
>

Brilliant.

> Someone said that zooming in JOSM is a pain sometimes; I just want to
> point out that you can zoom in increments with Ctrl-, and Ctrl-.
> (comma and decimal point).

Useful, though I personally tend to use the scrollwheel to do the  
zooming.

>
>
> I am quite confused now about dragging the map. Many have said that
> using the mouse with JOSM on the Macs does not work very well. But
> then I am told you can use Ctrl "rightclick simulation" to do the
> dragging, and others again say that some applications would use the
> space bar a a modifier key. Why would they, if Ctrl is already built
> in? If somebody can tell me exactly how you would like JOSM to behave
> on a mousically challenged system then we could maybe fix that... my
> first shot would have been supporting a modifier key but obviously
> OSX does that already with Ctrl and it seems not to be what people  
> want?
>

Control+Click on Mac OS X is a way to do a contextual click (what most  
people think of as a right click). I have just tried it in JOSM on Mac  
OS X and control+dragging doesn't produce the expected result of  
moving the map.

Modern Macs tend not to have the problem, as they are supplied with a  
multi button mouse, or the trackpad can be configured to do the right  
click drag.

Shaun
[..]

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

I'm using this post to address a number of things that others  
have said as well:

> Ubuntu Live CDs end to work on these. That would be one option.  
> Although Mac OSX works fine.

The Macs come from an Apple store who will have a certain interest in  
showing off their product. This means I will neither install Ubuntu,  
nor can I plug in a cheap el-ugly USB mouse.

Ok I'm now convinced that I can use the Macs.

Someone said that zooming in JOSM is a pain sometimes; I just want to  
point out that you can zoom in increments with Ctrl-, and Ctrl-.  
(comma and decimal point).

I am quite confused now about dragging the map. Many have said that  
using the mouse with JOSM on the Macs does not work very well. But  
then I am told you can use Ctrl "rightclick simulation" to do the  
dragging, and others again say that some applications would use the  
space bar a a modifier key. Why would they, if Ctrl is already built  
in? If somebody can tell me exactly how you would like JOSM to behave  
on a mousically challenged system then we could maybe fix that... my  
first shot would have been supporting a modifier key but obviously  
OSX does that already with Ctrl and it seems not to be what people want?

Maybe we should have that discussion over on josm-dev though.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"




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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Richard Fairhurst]

Shaun McDonald wrote:

> Right click in flash only brings up a system menu for Adobe Flash
> settings and about the flash plugin. I believe that developers cannot
> use the right click in flash. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

Happy to oblige. :) You can customise the right-click menu from  
Actionscript, though it's always a menu (not any other click  
behaviour), and always has the Adobe prefs/about at the bottom.

But Potlatch doesn't use it, other than to expressly disable Flash's  
Zoom In/Zoom Out functionality, which doesn't play nicely with  
resizable movies.

cheers
Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Shaun McDonald]

On 22 Apr 2008, at 11:52, Sebastian Spaeth wrote:

> Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> [...]
>> My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
>> for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.
>>
>> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari,
>>  always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)
>
> If you put JOSM on the hard disk anyway, you can just drop the Firefox
> install next to it. It's just moving (drag-n-drop) one directory to
> install it.
>

You could also switch between the browsers to show that OSM plays  
nicely in many browsers. Opera is another browser that could be used  
for this.

>> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
> Either you use a proper 3-button mouse. You can configure the Apple
> Mouse to be a 2-button mouse depending on where you press it down or  
> you
> hold ctrl down to achieve a right click. Personally, I would accept  
> the
> Macs and pop in a cheap 3-button USB mouse.
>

All Macs now come with the mighty mouse, however it can be tricky to  
get the right click to work, as you have to lift your fingers off the  
left hand side of the mouse. I have even setup my trackpad so that I  
can use it for within JOSM. It's not easy, but it can be done. As  
others have said, have a cheap 3 button mouse as a backup.

>> * Potlatch
> No problem here. Runs smooth. Does it use right-click at all?

Right click in flash only brings up a system menu for Adobe Flash  
settings and about the flash plugin. I believe that developers cannot  
use the right click in flash. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

>
>
>> Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
>> panels?
>
> JOSM mouse handling is the most inconvenient thing.
>

If it really was that difficult to deal with OSM on the Mac, something  
would have been done about it by now. There are many Mac users in the  
OSM community (including myself).

Control+mousewheel, will allow you to zoom the screen. I'd highly  
recommend it for the relevant parts of the presentation.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Dermot McNally]

2008/4/22 Robert (Jamie) Munro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>   Zooming
>  without a wheel mouse is a bit awkward because the zoom slider is too
>  short - a small movement makes a big difference. It would be nice to
>  increase it's length - possible even put it vertically along the whole
>  height of the screen.

A less intrusive option here would be to do it the way the Google
Earth widgets work. Add a plus and minus button at either end of the
existing slider. Holding the mouse down over these does a smooth zoom
in or out on Google Earth. JOSM probably can't deliver this, but it
could probably allow the scale bar or a displayed scale to change in
realtime until the mouse is released. Or as a simpler alternative,
just have each click change the zoom level by a small increment.

Dermot

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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Sebastian Spaeth]

Tom Hughes wrote:

 >> [snip]
if ($email=~/should/ and $email !~ /I will make it so/) then
   {print "work harder unpaid slaves!"}

> Well the dev server is over that way if somebody wants to volunteer to
> setup and run such a service. I'm sure Spaetz will oblige with an
> account on dev if required.

Yes, I will happily hand out accounts for anybody willing to implement 
that. :-)

Spaetz

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging climbing routes and scrambles

[Steve Hill]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, OJ W wrote:

> Perhaps the ele=x
> m tag would be useful here - so that if someone actually tries creating a 3D
> map of a crag they'll have data to work with...

I'm trying to avoid requiring the ele tag because elevation data is hard 
to get (accurately).  However, if someone has the equipment and wants to 
add ele tags then all the better.

  - Steve
xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.nexusuk.org/

  Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Sebastian Spaeth]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
>for an upcoming OSM booth we have the offer of a local Apple dealer
> to supply us with all the hardware we want (including 30"+ displays
> and all). These would, however, be out-of-the-box Macs with those
> funny keyboards and those mice without buttons you know... and they
> wouldn't even let us pop an Ubuntu CD in and install a proper OS ;-)

Ubuntu Live CDs end to work on these. That would be one option. Although 
Mac OSX works fine.

> My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
> for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.
> 
> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari, 
>   always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

If you put JOSM on the hard disk anyway, you can just drop the Firefox 
install next to it. It's just moving (drag-n-drop) one directory to 
install it.

> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
Either you use a proper 3-button mouse. You can configure the Apple 
Mouse to be a 2-button mouse depending on where you press it down or you 
hold ctrl down to achieve a right click. Personally, I would accept the 
Macs and pop in a cheap 3-button USB mouse.

> * Potlatch
No problem here. Runs smooth. Does it use right-click at all?

> Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
> panels?

JOSM mouse handling is the most inconvenient thing.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Robert Munro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is why we need a test server. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/ should
> lead to a near-identical looking site to the main site, but where this
> kind of scratchpad testing, etc. is explcitly allowed. The database
> behind this site should be overwritten with the real database
> periodically. The site would also be the place where new versions of the
> site and Potlatch can be tried and tested.

Well the dev server is over that way if somebody wants to volunteer to
setup and run such a service. I'm sure Spaetz will oblige with an
account on dev if required.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] mobile binary data

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Adam Boardman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I want to experiment with the mobile OSM binary data protocol  
>> mentioned in the Development section of the wiki but I am not sure  
>> how to get hold of the data.
>
> The OSM Binary Format is a proposed new format for getting data from the 
> API, currently partially implemented in an svn branch [1] (waiting for 
> TomH to get back to me at the moment about some implementation choices - 
> his todo list is too long).

Now I've got the export tab out of the way I'm hoping to review that
branch this week...

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Frederik Ramm wrote:
| Hi,
|
|>> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
|> This is likely your sticking point. The inability to drag the map is a
|> real killer on JOSM, and I'm not aware of any decent ways of working
|> around it within the java on mac. (I do a *lot* of zooming in and out,
|> and use of the ctrl-arrows, whenever I need JOSM without an eexternal
|> mouse.)
|
| How would a "native" Mac application deal with wanting to let the
| user drag the map and at the same time wanting to let him draw a
| selection rectangle? Would they have one drag mode and one select mode
| then, or a modifier key for one of the two actions?

If I want to select a rectangular area larger than the current screen, I
normally find it easiest to zoom out a bit first. Zooming is easy with a
wheel mouse (or two fingers on a MacBook or PowerBook Touchpad). Zooming
without a wheel mouse is a bit awkward because the zoom slider is too
short - a small movement makes a big difference. It would be nice to
increase it's length - possible even put it vertically along the whole
height of the screen.

The new MacBooks have multi-touch touchpads that let you zoom and rotate
by spreading and twisting 2 fingers. Sometimes rotating would be really
handy in JOSM.

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=ZOMP
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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
| El Martes, 22 de Abril de 2008, Tom Hughes escribió:
| [...]
|> This has been discussed inumerable times before and the consensus has
|> been very clear that we should not use any part of the globe, no matter
|> how remote, as some sort of test area or scratchpad.
|
| If anybody wants to experiment, instructions on how to set up a rails
server
| are on SVN and on the wiki, anyway. I'm with Tom here, on not
polluting the
| main OSM database.

This is why we need a test server. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/ should
lead to a near-identical looking site to the main site, but where this
kind of scratchpad testing, etc. is explcitly allowed. The database
behind this site should be overwritten with the real database
periodically. The site would also be the place where new versions of the
site and Potlatch can be tried and tested.

Robert (Jamie) Munro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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aMORH+rq4stxiFbdzzlU914=
=PO1c
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Re: [OSM-talk] mobile binary data

[Adam Boardman]

> I want to experiment with the mobile OSM binary data protocol  
> mentioned in the Development section of the wiki but I am not sure  
> how to get hold of the data.

The OSM Binary Format is a proposed new format for getting data from the 
API, currently partially implemented in an svn branch [1] (waiting for 
TomH to get back to me at the moment about some implementation choices - 
his todo list is too long).

The page you have found on the wiki is about some additional features 
for mobile devices. In particular tile based requests which are cached 
to reduce server load. The wiki has a link to the proxy code (renamed 
osmgetbmap) in symbianos.org svn [2] where the development of this 
started for use with WhereAmI.

If you want to just get a quick example of the format without installing 
anything then symbianos.org also has a clickable map to let you download 
a few OBF tiles [3].

Cheers,

Adam.

[1] http://svn.openstreetmap.org/sites/rails_port_branches/osmbinaryformat/
[2] https://svn.symbianos.org/osmtocsv/trunk/osmgetbmap.php (+dep)
[3] http://www.symbianos.org/osmtileselector

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Re: [OSM-talk] mobile binary data

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I want to experiment with the mobile OSM binary data protocol
> mentioned in the Development section of the wiki but I am not sure
> how to get hold of the data. The wiki page suggests a URL like this
> bmap.php?tile=257882462&ts=29&have=41 but this is not a complete URL
> and being relatively new to OSM I am not sure what to put between
> http:// and bmap.php.

That is only a proposal - it isn't actually implemented yet.

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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[OSM-talk] mobile binary data

[elvin ibbotson]

I want to experiment with the mobile OSM binary data protocol  
mentioned in the Development section of the wiki but I am not sure  
how to get hold of the data. The wiki page suggests a URL like this  
bmap.php?tile=257882462&ts=29&have=41 but this is not a complete URL  
and being relatively new to OSM I am not sure what to put between  
http:// and bmap.php.





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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[elvin ibbotson]

As an architect I spend a lot of time using mapping 'beyond zoom 18'  
and have contributed a lot of stealth taxes to the British government  
paying through the nose for Ordnance Survey site plans (another  
debate altogether). Accurate data for building footprints (we'd best  
keep out of people's living rooms to avoid privacy issues) would be  
great but is beyond the capabilities of the techniques generally used  
by OSM mappers - hobby GPS devices and tracing from Yahoo imagery.  
Either a professional surveying-quality GPS rig would be needed,  
giving centimetre accuracy, or the data would have to be imported  
from CAD, with some method of accurately relating this to OSM's  
coordinate system. Bigger servers might be needed too :-)




From: Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 22 April 2008 00:44:59 BDT
To: Sfan00 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas	 
concerning siteplans)



Hi,


What exists are the start of some example floorplans for :
* A supermarket
* A Cinema seating arrangment
* A simple  house...

I would welcome some thoughts on what to expand...


Micromapping is surely an interesting area that we'll have to spend
some thought on; if and how we want it in our data, how this can work
with generalisation (zooming out) and so on.

However I have a feeling that our current approach of mapping "what's
there" will fail miserably when we try to create schematics of the
insides of railway stations or cinemas. Such floor plans are usually
not even remotely drawn to scale, often for good reasons. But our way
of doing things does not leave room for *not* drawing something to
scale. So maybe we just end up with links to some other system
("OpenFloorPlans")...?



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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 44, Issue 85

[elvin ibbotson]

On 21 Apr 2008, at 18:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



From: Tom Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 21 April 2008 14:48:56 BDT
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles


In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I had been intending to get round to mailing this list enquiring if
SVG downloads were possible/available when the Export tab appeared.
My initial delight** was slightly diminished when I exported a map in
two formats - SVG and PNG - and found the SVG version was 340kB while
the PNG file was 132kB. A glance at the SVG data suggests that text
is actually drawn (sometimes more than once (for background then
again for the text itself) using long, elaborate paths and shape
definitions of every character at every orientation and size, rather
than just using the SVG text element!!! I suspect it also
incorporates bitmap images as icons rather than using SVG
definitions. I think SVG is the way forward, but not if the file
sizes end up almost three times bigger than bitmaps!


Some of the text is drawn twice in order to get the halo effect
that our mapnik stylesheet uses. The icons are bitmaps because, as
I believe I explained yesterday, mapnik does not (currently) support
vector symbols. If you want to help with that I'm sure Artem will be
pleased to here from you.

Everything else is essentially down to cairo, which is the rendering
library that mapnik uses to render vector maps. I ask it to render
text using a given font and if it chooses to convert that to a path
then that is because it thinks it isn't possible to do it as a text
render for some reason.

In general terms SVG is pretty verbose anyway, so it's not at all
clear to be that it's ideal for what you are doing.

I would also point out that the export service was really designed
for people doing one of exports and not to act as a back end for the
sort of thing you're doing and it is unlikely to scale well to
supporting large scale use of that sort.


Fair enough! It sounds like SVG export from Mapnik/Cairo is a little
sub-optimal :-) I wasn't suggesting applications somehow used the
export service but that SVG tiles should be available alongside (and
ultimately instead of?) bitmap tiles




I suggest that, if has not already been done and is hidden somewhere
I haven't looked, that a server should be dedicated to scalable map
tiles using a compact and efficient implementation of SVG coding.


Sure. I'll just look in the cupboard marked "spare servers" and pull
out a server for you. Then I'll go write stack of code and deploy and
manage it for you.


Great, thanks.



Seriously. You want it, you write it.


Aw shucks. You guys are so much better at it than me.

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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[elvin ibbotson]

Yup! Osmarender seems to produce SVG, and I guess SVG is an  
intermediate stage in producing the bitmap [EMAIL PROTECTED] tiles, but
what I am suggesting should be considered is a server that would  
deliver tiles in SVG format instead of/as an alternative to bitmap  
tiles. Could this be done simply (as if anything was ever simple :-)  
caching the SVG between running Osmarender and converting SVG to  
bitmaps?


On 21 Apr 2008, at 18:00, 80n wrote:



On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:33 PM, elvin ibbotson  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

poco.org.uk

I have developed a mobile-phone Java app (called 'mom') to navigate  
OSM maps and save GPX tracks (amongst other things) which will soon  
be out there for people to download. It uses mapnick PNG tiles at 5  
of OSM's scales (3, 6, 9, 12 & 15) which look nice but are quite  
big files to download to a phone (typically 12kB-15kB for scale 15)  
so take a significant amount of time and eat into a user's data  
allowance to fetch.


I considered using the compact binary downloads aimed at mobile  
apps, but this is raw data and the graphics limitations of mobile  
Java mean the maps drawn from it would not look very pretty.


I am fairly ignorant of OSM data structures and back-room software  
but I understand SVG is used in producing bitmap tiles. As I  
understand it, the idea of SVG is not only to give nice, scalable,  
graphics, but to do so using smaller file/download sizes than  
bitmaps. Many/most of the newest mobile phones are able to draw SVG  
graphics in Java, as are browsers, and desktop Java will soon  
include SVG graphics, so it looks to me like the way forward. If  
tiles were available as SVG I am sure it would be relatively easy  
to substitute them for bitmap tiles in slippy maps or apps like  
mine. Not only would downloads be faster but a smaller range of  
scales would be needed, with the same data set and appearance being  
used for a range of scales and scaling of the SVG image used for  
intermediate (or infinitely adjustable) scales.


I had been intending to get round to mailing this list enquiring if  
SVG downloads were possible/available when the Export tab appeared.  
My initial delight** was slightly diminished when I exported a map  
in two formats - SVG and PNG - and found the SVG version was 340kB  
while the PNG file was 132kB. A glance at the SVG data suggests  
that text is actually drawn (sometimes more than once (for  
background then again for the text itself) using long, elaborate  
paths and shape definitions of every character at every orientation  
and size, rather than just using the SVG text element!!! I suspect  
it also incorporates bitmap images as icons rather than using SVG  
definitions. I think SVG is the way forward, but not if the file  
sizes end up almost three times bigger than bitmaps!


Take a look at Osmarender.  This creates proper SVG.  Details here:  
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmarender




I suggest that, if has not already been done and is hidden  
somewhere I haven't looked, that a server should be dedicated to  
scalable map tiles using a compact and efficient implementation of  
SVG coding.


**Hats off to those involved, by the way < :-)

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> Where is this show?

It's the LinuxTag in Berlin, end of May.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Dair Grant]

Frederik Ramm wrote:

> How would a "native" Mac application deal with wanting to let the user drag
> the map and at the same time wanting to let him draw a selection rectangle?
> Would they have one drag mode and one select mode then, or a modifier key for
> one of the two actions?

A selection tool should auto-scroll the canvas as the selection rectangle
approaches the edge of the window (bonus points if the speed of scrolling is
proportional to the distance between the mouse and the boundary - selecting
up to the edge of the window should scroll slowly, selecting way past the
edge of the window should scroll quickly).

If there's a separate pan tool then a popular convention is that pressing
space will temporarily switch to the pan tool until space is released.

Unfortunately the standard Preview.app only implements the second behaviour,
but if you have access to a copy of Photoshop then that's probably the best
model to copy.


-dair
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi,
On 21 Apr 2008, at 22:24, Martijn van Exel wrote:


Op 21 apr 2008, om 22:46 heeft Frederik Ramm het volgende geschreven:


Hi,


Hi Frederik,



 for an upcoming OSM booth we have the offer of a local Apple dealer
to supply us with all the hardware we want (including 30"+ displays
and all). These would, however, be out-of-the-box Macs with those
funny keyboards and those mice without buttons you know... and they
wouldn't even let us pop an Ubuntu CD in and install a proper OS ;-)




Where is this show?

[]

Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
panels?


No. Only thing I'd recommend is putting this:

#!/bin/bash
java -jar -Xmx256M -XX:MaxPermSize=256M /Applications/josm-latest.jar

in ~/Library/Scripts/JOSM.sh (chmod 0755) and enabling the script menu
through the AppleScript Utility (included in Leopard) for easy access
to JOSM.


I've used Jar bundler, which produces much nicer mac like results.  
I've also used increased memory allowance.


You will need to update the josm-latest.jar inside it, as it is  
currently an old version. You control/context+click the JOSM.app and  
choose "show package contents". Then navigate to Contents/Resources/ 
Java and replace the josm-latest.jar in there with a newer version.  
Finally don't run JOSM from the disk image.







I would like to accept the offer but if I end up endlessly tuning
those machines to act like normal computers then I'd rather opt for
run-down but working Linux boxes from the community instead of the
shiny Macs.



Is there no-one with hands-on Mac experience that can lend a hand? You
wouldn't want to turn down those 30" screens :)
30" displays are very impressive, and will give OSM that extra wow  
factor.


Shaun

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