Re: [OSM-talk] How to show school icons ?

[Mark Wagner]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:08:00 +0100
Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> sent from a phone
> 
> > On 24. Nov 2017, at 11:00, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> > 
> > In general there are many possible reasons why you would want to
> > map a school with a node.  Like:
> > 
> > * you don't have verifiable information on the extent of the school 
> > grounds.
> > * the school consists of a number of rooms in a building but not
> > the whole building.
> > * there are multiple schools using the same infrastructure
> > together.  
> 
> 
> yes, case 2 and 3 could alternatively also be mapped with relations
> or overlapping ways (conveying more information than a node), but if
> you don’t know the extent it is best to use a node.

When two schools share a building, it's common for the dividing line to
shift from year to year depending on the makeup of the student body.
Mapping this as two school nodes in a building is probably the best way
of doing this, as the *entrances* to the schools are usually separate,
and don't change over time.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Martijn

I support the idea that a user can define an area-of-his-interests (as
part of his profile/account?).

My another wish is to show OSM data (Overpass?) in the first place -
similar to what map data layer in osm.org shows but only around
coordinate.

Background is, that when the challenge get's older, it's more and more
likely that the error in question has been 'fixed' (e.g. new object
entered) by someone else. The motivation for this is similar to having
iD integrated but probably quicker and less resource hungry.

Cheers, Stefan

2017-11-25 19:26 GMT+01:00 James :
> There's already a false positive button for that. Skip is for meh don't want
> to do that right now.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Stefan Keller  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2017-11-24 22:18 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
>> >
>> > On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
>> >> task".
>> >
>> > No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's
>> > anything wrong.
>>
>> No: "Skip" IMHO really means what Joost said.
>> What you described is "False positive".
>>
>> -Stefan
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-25 11:39 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
>> > You need evidence that randomness combined with guesswork produces
>> > erroneous
>> > output? Really? Look around, it's everywhere!
>> >
>> > DaveF
>> >
>> >
>> > On 25/11/2017 01:37, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I’d appreciate you back that statement up with some data that goes
>> >> beyond
>> >> some isolated examples, Dave.
>> >>
>> >>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Dave F 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
>> 
>>  For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
>>  task".
>> >>>
>> >>> No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think
>> >>> there's
>> >>> anything wrong. Maproulette is based on guesswork. A task doesn't mean
>> >>> there's an error that definitely needs fixing
>> >>>
>> >>> There appears to be a compulsion by users to complete tasks in
>> >>> Maproulette even when they have no *accurate* knowledge. This is
>> >>> wrong. It
>> >>> adds *erroneous* data to OSM.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's a clue to Maproulette's randomness & uncertainty in its name.
>> >>>
>> >>> I believe a good way to improve OSM data is to ban Maproulette.
>> >>>
>> >>> DaveF
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> talk mailing list
>> >>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう！

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[Talk-es] Proyecto #1calle1nombre, o estado del etiquetado de las calles españolas...

[Esther Mingot]

Buenas!

El pasado viernes 17 de noviembre se realizó en Barcelona una reunión informal 
de mapeadores. Entre cervezas y debates salió el tema de un proyecto que 
estamos llevando a cabo la comunidad catalana desde el año pasado: el proyecto 
#1carrer1nom. El proyecto nació con la intención de dar homogeneidad al mapa, 
revisando y etiquetando todas las calles de, en este caso, Catalunya. Se creó 
un apartado en la wiki para coordinar el trabajo [1], a la que siguió la 
generación de informes semanales, con el programa desarrollado por Xevib [2], y 
posteriormente los mapas que empecé a generar con estos datos [3].

Se comentó que hace tiempo, en esta misma lista se había debatido sobre el 
estado del mapeado de las ciudades españolas, incluyendo el tema de las calles 
y la actualización de la wiki correspondiente. Con el bagaje de este año largo 
con el proyecto #1carrer1nom, decidimos probar a sacar un mapa del estado del 
etiquetado de las calles a nivel de España, con el objetivo de dotar a las 
comunidades locales de una guía sobre qué zonas del territorio requieren mayor 
atención. El mapa se ha realizado tomando como elemento de referencia las 
relaciones de provincia, a partir de los datos obtenidos de geofabrik [4], 
tanto para el planet de España como el de las Islas Canarias. El resultado se 
puede ver en la wiki [5]. En el proceso de elaboración de este primer mapa se 
han identificado tres errores, que habrá que determinar si son fruto del 
mapeado o error de geofabrik al establecer los límites de descarga: no se 
obtienen las relaciones correspondientes a las provincias de Cáceres y Huelva, 
ni la Comunidad Autónoma de Extremadura.

Este viernes adelanté los resultados en el grupo de Telegram, a la vez que me 
comprometí a trasladar el tema a la lista, para poder continuar el debate por 
este canal. A petición de algunos usuarios, he empezado a elaborar los informes 
y mapas de los municipios por Comunidad Autónoma, y los mapas se pueden 
consultar aquí [6]. Mi intención es ir preparando el resto en los próximos 
días, para completar la “radiografía” a nuestro territorio, al mismo tiempo que 
se detectan municipios sin datos, bien porque no hay en la categoría 
inspeccionada, bien porque hay algún problema en sus límites administrativos.

Cabe destacar que tanto los informes como los mapas se elaboran sobre los datos 
incorporados a OSM, siendo un reflejo sesgado de la realidad,  pues se analizan 
las calles etiquetadas como residential o living_street sin entrar a valorar si 
están mapeadas todas las calles o no, ni si ésta es la categoría que les 
corresponde.

Como veis, hay mucho trabajo por delante, y sería bueno que cada comunidad se 
organizara para mejorar su zona. En lo que pueda os echaré una mano, y si 
alguien tiene tiempo, ganas y conocimiento, hay una serie de mejoras que quiero 
incorporar para intentar automatizar más el sistema…

Saludos!

[1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Catalan/Revisi%C3%B3_Carrers_Catalunya
[2] https://github.com/OSM-Catalan/manuel
[3] https://imgur.com/a/NMe63
[4] http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/spain.html
[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Wikiproyecto_Espa%C3%B1a/Progreso
[6] https://imgur.com/a/opbSV



Sólo la verdad nos hará libres
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[carlo folini]

Dal mio punto di vista avere la possibilità di incrociare i dati di OSM con
quelli del catasto è un bel plus per capire dove sono le proprietà...
sempre che riesca a fare una sovrapposizione decente.

Se poi allargassero le maglie della licenza, potrebbe tornare utile anche
per la mappatura.


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Il giorno 25 novembre 2017 22:16, Alessandro Palmas <
alessandro.pal...@wikimedia.it> ha scritto:

> Scusate ma non capisco tutto questo parlare di visualizzazioni in JOSM e
> sovrapposizioni.
> Non si possono riutilizzare in alcun modo.
>
>
> Alessandro
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Scusate ma non capisco tutto questo parlare di visualizzazioni in
JOSM e sovrapposizioni.
Non si possono riutilizzare in alcun modo.


Alessandro
  


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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[Francesco Pelullo]

Il 25 nov 2017 20:00, "Federico Cortese"  ha scritto:

2017-11-25 19:22 GMT+01:00 Francesco Pelullo :
>
> Prova a stampare da QGIS una mappa in scala 1:1000 o 1:500, lasciando
attivo
> il layer delle particelle. Funziona?
>

Premetto che non sono solito usare QGIS per fare stampe, quindi ho
poca dimestichezza;
comunque dalle prove che ho fatto dipende dalla scala di
visualizzazione: se lo zoom è abbastanza ravvicinato funziona,
altrimenti non compaiono le particelle.


OK, mi riferivo al fatto che la mappa viene stampata incompleta.

In pratica, sto cercando di farmi un estratto di mappa autoprodotto, per
confrontarlo con un estratto di mappa ufficiale acquistato su Sister, ma il
risultato è un'area parziale e traslata (rispetto al progetto di stampa, il
file .PDF prodotto contiene metà foglio A4 bianco e metà mappa).

Ciao
/niubii/
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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool/API to find local OSM mailing lists by location

[joost schouppe]

That's really cool. What would it take to merge more sources in there? For
example the main community e-mail address, their activities calendar, their
riot/telegram/slack group? Maybe a structured wiki page could be the source?

2017-11-25 17:48 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira :

> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Edward Betts  wrote:
> > I've made a tool with an API for finding local OSM mailing lists.
> >
> > https://local.openstreetmap.directory/
>
> Nice service!
>
> If possible, maybe it could display all the lists that could be
> possibly related with the place?
> With your Oxford example, it could also suggest Talk-GB as a more general
> list.
>
> Maybe display from the most specific to the more general list?
>
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>



-- 
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Twitter  | LinkedIn
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-25 19:22 GMT+01:00 Francesco Pelullo :
>
> Prova a stampare da QGIS una mappa in scala 1:1000 o 1:500, lasciando attivo
> il layer delle particelle. Funziona?
>

Premetto che non sono solito usare QGIS per fare stampe, quindi ho
poca dimestichezza;
comunque dalle prove che ho fatto dipende dalla scala di
visualizzazione: se lo zoom è abbastanza ravvicinato funziona,
altrimenti non compaiono le particelle.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[carlo folini]

Da QGIS per agenza delle entrate mi dice EPSG:4258, ETRS89
JOSM WGS84

Non ne sò moltissimo, ma penso che sia questo il problema.


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Il giorno 25 novembre 2017 19:22, Francesco Pelullo 
ha scritto:

>
>
> Il 25 nov 2017 19:09, "Federico Cortese"  ha
> scritto:
>
>
>
> Dalla foto che hai postato sembra ci sia qualche problema. Nelle mie
> zone, aprendo il WMS con QGIS, la sovrapposizione con le ortofoto
> regionali è perfetta.
>
>
>
> Prova a stampare da QGIS una mappa in scala 1:1000 o 1:500, lasciando
> attivo il layer delle particelle. Funziona?
>
> Ciao
> /niubii/
>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[James]

There's already a false positive button for that. Skip is for meh don't
want to do that right now.



On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Stefan Keller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 2017-11-24 22:18 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
> >
> > On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
> >>
> >> For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
> >> task".
> >
> > No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's
> > anything wrong.
>
> No: "Skip" IMHO really means what Joost said.
> What you described is "False positive".
>
> -Stefan
>
>
> 2017-11-25 11:39 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
> > You need evidence that randomness combined with guesswork produces
> erroneous
> > output? Really? Look around, it's everywhere!
> >
> > DaveF
> >
> >
> > On 25/11/2017 01:37, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> >>
> >> I’d appreciate you back that statement up with some data that goes
> beyond
> >> some isolated examples, Dave.
> >>
> >>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Dave F 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
> 
>  For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
>  task".
> >>>
> >>> No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's
> >>> anything wrong. Maproulette is based on guesswork. A task doesn't mean
> >>> there's an error that definitely needs fixing
> >>>
> >>> There appears to be a compulsion by users to complete tasks in
> >>> Maproulette even when they have no *accurate* knowledge. This is
> wrong. It
> >>> adds *erroneous* data to OSM.
> >>>
> >>> There's a clue to Maproulette's randomness & uncertainty in its name.
> >>>
> >>> I believe a good way to improve OSM data is to ban Maproulette.
> >>>
> >>> DaveF
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> talk mailing list
> >>> talk@openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[Francesco Pelullo]

Il 25 nov 2017 19:09, "Federico Cortese"  ha scritto:



Dalla foto che hai postato sembra ci sia qualche problema. Nelle mie
zone, aprendo il WMS con QGIS, la sovrapposizione con le ortofoto
regionali è perfetta.



Prova a stampare da QGIS una mappa in scala 1:1000 o 1:500, lasciando
attivo il layer delle particelle. Funziona?

Ciao
/niubii/
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-25 17:13 GMT+01:00 carlo folini :
>
> Come non detto... ho riprovato in JOSM 13053 e adesso mi carica il WMS!
> Probabilmente il problema di prima era che non avevo selezionato la voce 
> "Store WMS endpoint only, select layers at usage".

Non lo so, a me JOSM 13053 non le legge nemmeno selezionando quella voce.

> Purtroppo sembra che non usi lo stesso sistema di coordinate. Può essere?

Dalla foto che hai postato sembra ci sia qualche problema. Nelle mie
zone, aprendo il WMS con QGIS, la sovrapposizione con le ortofoto
regionali è perfetta.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[Stefan Keller]

Hi,

2017-11-24 22:18 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
>
> On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
>>
>> For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
>> task".
>
> No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's
> anything wrong.

No: "Skip" IMHO really means what Joost said.
What you described is "False positive".

-Stefan


2017-11-25 11:39 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
> You need evidence that randomness combined with guesswork produces erroneous
> output? Really? Look around, it's everywhere!
>
> DaveF
>
>
> On 25/11/2017 01:37, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>>
>> I’d appreciate you back that statement up with some data that goes beyond
>> some isolated examples, Dave.
>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Dave F  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:

 For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this
 task".
>>>
>>> No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's
>>> anything wrong. Maproulette is based on guesswork. A task doesn't mean
>>> there's an error that definitely needs fixing
>>>
>>> There appears to be a compulsion by users to complete tasks in
>>> Maproulette even when they have no *accurate* knowledge. This is wrong. It
>>> adds *erroneous* data to OSM.
>>>
>>> There's a clue to Maproulette's randomness & uncertainty in its name.
>>>
>>> I believe a good way to improve OSM data is to ban Maproulette.
>>>
>>> DaveF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-11-25 17:59, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 11/25/2017 11:12 AM, Colin Smale wrote: 
> 
>> I just got an email from the mailing list system that my
>> account/membership had been disabled due to "excessive bounces". I have
>> no idea why, but that is not the point I want to make here. My point is
>> that the email I received contained my password to that account, in
>> plain text!
> 
> Why don't we simply nuke all mailman passwords, they're not needed
> anyway. (All the lists I signed up for, I can't remember, either I
> didn't set a password, or Mailman assigned a random one, so it never
> occurred to me that there was anything to protect.)

Might not be a bad idea... System-generated passwords are at least
limited to that one system, and indeed, the worst that can happen is
likely to be that someone cancels your mailing list subscription. The
problem is that people, being human, might use their "usual" password
for multiple sites (despite warnings against this). If mailman is hacked
into revealing the passwords, some of them might be user-entered and may
provide access to other sites as well 

I expect OSM has some kind of "duty of care". If one is allowed to
choose one's own password, the operators need to take reasonable care to
prevent disclosure, and I don't expect a one-time warning would be
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[Talk-br] Classificação viária (de novo)

[Fernando Trebien]

Gostaria de convidá-los a darem uma olhada neste post do fórum, sem pressa,
e seguirem a discussão lá caso se interessem (por favor não inundem a lista
de e-mails):

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=674296#p674296

Sei que chegar a um conseno quanto à classificação é difícil e que foi
muito desgastante em 2013, só quero saber se há alguma forte objeção a essa
proposta. Se houver, descarto a ideia direto ao invés de investir tempo
(que não será pouco) para elaborá-la em nível nacional/continental.

-- 
Fernando Trebien
+55 (51) 99962-5409

"Nullius in verba."
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/11/17 16:45, Colin Smale wrote:

On 2017-11-25 17:31, Tom Hughes wrote:


On 25/11/17 15:37, Colin Smale wrote:



On 25 November 2017 16:04:45 CET, "Éric Gillet" > wrote:

Another point : This password is not secure, but what the worst that
could
happen with it ? As long as one don't reuse it on other applications
(as
warned during registration), the only action an attacker could do would
be
to unsubscribe you. Not really catastrophic

...until it is hacked and thousands of passwords are stolen. If even one of those leads 
to something serious, I am not sure that saying "I told you so 10 years ago when you 
signed up" will be enough to absolve the operators of liability.

I will open a ticket as suggested.


There's really not much point - we will upgrade as and when the 
packages in Ubuntu are upgraded. We're not going to be installing from 
source.
In that case I won't bother. I can't help thinking: what a sorry state 
of affairs.

When you say "we", who are you referring to exactly Tom?


The system administrators that are responsible for running it.

I would also add that most sites are sticking with mailman 2 for now 
which is likely why the distros haven't upgraded.


The only site I know of that uses mailman 3 is Fedora and from my 
experience of it I would say it's still a bit rough around the edges for 
now.


Everybody knows the whole password thing with mailman 2 is not ideal and 
is basically a major pain but there are no easy solutions to it.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 11/25/2017 11:12 AM, Colin Smale wrote:
> I just got an email from the mailing list system that my
> account/membership had been disabled due to "excessive bounces". I have
> no idea why, but that is not the point I want to make here. My point is
> that the email I received contained my password to that account, in
> plain text!

Why don't we simply nuke all mailman passwords, they're not needed
anyway. (All the lists I signed up for, I can't remember, either I
didn't set a password, or Mailman assigned a random one, so it never
occurred to me that there was anything to protect.)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool/API to find local OSM mailing lists by location

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Edward Betts  wrote:
> I've made a tool with an API for finding local OSM mailing lists.
>
> https://local.openstreetmap.directory/

Nice service!

If possible, maybe it could display all the lists that could be
possibly related with the place?
With your Oxford example, it could also suggest Talk-GB as a more general list.

Maybe display from the most specific to the more general list?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-11-25 17:31, Tom Hughes wrote:

> On 25/11/17 15:37, Colin Smale wrote: 
> 
> On 25 November 2017 16:04:45 CET, "Éric Gillet"  
> wrote: Another point : This password is not secure, but what the worst that
> could
> happen with it ? As long as one don't reuse it on other applications
> (as
> warned during registration), the only action an attacker could do would
> be
> to unsubscribe you. Not really catastrophic ...until it is hacked and 
> thousands of passwords are stolen. If even one of those leads to something 
> serious, I am not sure that saying "I told you so 10 years ago when you 
> signed up" will be enough to absolve the operators of liability.
> 
> I will open a ticket as suggested.

There's really not much point - we will upgrade as and when the packages
in Ubuntu are upgraded. We're not going to be installing from source. 

In that case I won't bother. I can't help thinking: what a sorry state
of affairs. 

When you say "we", who are you referring to exactly Tom?___
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[OSM-talk] New tool/API to find local OSM mailing lists by location

[Edward Betts]

I've made a tool with an API for finding local OSM mailing lists.

https://local.openstreetmap.directory/

The web interface handles searching by place name or lat/lon, the API can
be queried by place name, lat/lon and OSM object.

This is a proof of concept, I threw it together to see if it useful.

How might it be used? Think about systems for organising remote mapathons,
like Missing Maps. They could use the API to look up the local mailing list
and remind the organiser to contact the local community to let them know
about the mapathon.

Or an assisted editing tool like MapRoulette might show details of the local
mailing list so mappers know how to contact if they're making a complex edit
and they want to check with the local community that the edit is correct.

Here are some example queries and the result:

  Cuba:  Talk-cu
  Rome:  Talk-it-lazio
  Burkina Faso:  Talk-bf
  Oxford:Talk-gb-oxoncotswolds
  Timbuktu:  Talk-ml
  47.6,-122.3:   Talk-us-pugetsound

How does it work? The heavy lifting is done via the Nominatim API. For every
lookup it issues a query to Nominatim and uses the address information to
determine the local mailing list.

Code: https://github.com/EdwardBetts/localosm
Service: https://local.openstreetmap.directory/

Is this useful? I'd love to hear your thoughts or questions.
-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/11/17 15:37, Colin Smale wrote:



On 25 November 2017 16:04:45 CET, "Éric Gillet"  
wrote:

Another point : This password is not secure, but what the worst that
could
happen with it ? As long as one don't reuse it on other applications
(as
warned during registration), the only action an attacker could do would
be
to unsubscribe you. Not really catastrophic

...until it is hacked and thousands of passwords are stolen. If even one of those leads 
to something serious, I am not sure that saying "I told you so 10 years ago when you 
signed up" will be enough to absolve the operators of liability.

I will open a ticket as suggested.


There's really not much point - we will upgrade as and when the packages 
in Ubuntu are upgraded. We're not going to be installing from source.


Upgrading to mailman 3 is a massive job anyway - it's basically a 
completely different piece of software. Or rather it's now about five 
separate pieces of software that you have to install and connect up.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tag History updates - call for help

[François Lacombe]

Hi Daniel,

Thnx for this message, this is a great tool I like to use

Can't taginfo feed or even completely include the tool functionnalities ?
I don't know how taginfo got its data from OSM.

It would be great to show up tags usage evolution beside current
volumetries.


Good luck to Martin to find a proper datasource anyway

François

*François Lacombe*

fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
www.infos-reseaux.com
@InfosReseaux 

2017-11-25 16:52 GMT+01:00 Daniel Koć :

> OSM Tag History is a great service which shows the changes of a given tag
> used in the OSM database. Probably some of you already know it:
>
> http://taghistory.raifer.tech
>
> The problem is however that it needs a full database, which includes tag
> history. The author is not willing to run it himself, so updates are manual
> and not too frequent, which makes the service less useful than it could be.
>
> He looks for somebody who "already runs a (daily) updated OSM DB which
> could produce deltas of the counts of tags in their db (for little extra
> processing cost)":
>
> https://github.com/tyrasd/taghistory/issues/10#issuecomment-346945069
>
> If someone is able to do it, please contact him. I would be happy to see
> more frequent, possibly automatic updates, that's why I pass the message.
>
> --
> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to show school icons ?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 24. Nov 2017, at 11:00, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> In general there are many possible reasons why you would want to map a 
> school with a node.  Like:
> 
> * you don't have verifiable information on the extent of the school 
> grounds.
> * the school consists of a number of rooms in a building but not the 
> whole building.
> * there are multiple schools using the same infrastructure together.


yes, case 2 and 3 could alternatively also be mapped with relations or 
overlapping ways (conveying more information than a node), but if you don’t 
know the extent it is best to use a node.

Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

J'ai passé en revue les routes et lieux modifiés en dernier par izpura.

Il reste quelques cas où mon manque d'expérience Bano rendait
la situation incertaine, je me suis abstenu dans ces cas là.

De même de nombreux lieux dit ne sont pas dans Fantoir,
je me suis contenté d'ajouté le toponyme francophone sans changer le tag 
name, n'ayant pas de source pour choisir quel toponyme est l'officiel.

Pour ceux qui veulent se faire un avis par eux-même
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tis
Il manque hélas un moyen pour marquer les cas "ok" des cas à traiter.

Cordialement,
Marc
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[OSM-talk] OSM Tag History updates - call for help

[Daniel Koć]

OSM Tag History is a great service which shows the changes of a given 
tag used in the OSM database. Probably some of you already know it:


http://taghistory.raifer.tech

The problem is however that it needs a full database, which includes tag 
history. The author is not willing to run it himself, so updates are 
manual and not too frequent, which makes the service less useful than it 
could be.


He looks for somebody who "already runs a (daily) updated OSM DB which 
could produce deltas of the counts of tags in their db (for little extra 
processing cost)":


https://github.com/tyrasd/taghistory/issues/10#issuecomment-346945069

If someone is able to do it, please contact him. I would be happy to see 
more frequent, possibly automatic updates, that's why I pass the message.


--
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]


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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 24/11/2017 21:18, Dave F wrote:


On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:
For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this 
task".


No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think 
there's anything wrong. Maproulette is based on guesswork. A task 
doesn't mean there's an error that definitely needs fixing




I presume the "false positive" button is for that (although as I've just 
noted in another reply, that doesn't seem to work for me).


There appears to be a compulsion by users to complete tasks in 
Maproulette even when they have no *accurate* knowledge. This is 
wrong. It adds *erroneous* data to OSM.


There's a clue to Maproulette's randomness & uncertainty in its name.

I believe a good way to improve OSM data is to ban Maproulette.



There are a number of these sorts of tools around, and to be honest 
(with a DWG hat on) I see fewer issues raised about Maproulette than, 
say people using HOT's tasking manager and not knowing what they are 
doing (not usually their fault - it's almost always due to not enough 
suitable training).  Maybe people who use Maproulette have an idea of 
what OSM is and are already familiar with one or another editor and 
maybe that isn't true about some HOT mapping.


The only recent Maproulette issue I can think of where dodgy POIs added 
via MAPS.ME had some extra "missing" tags added via Maproulette.  The 
task in Maproulette should really have included "check that these things 
added by MAPS.ME users weren't mistaggings or just personal markers", 
but that's really something that should be in the task definition 
itself.  There's a discussion about a general "form of words" over at 
https://github.com/maproulette/maproulette2/issues/348 - that, together 
with the availability of "false positive" and "skip" buttons should 
allow people to only contribute sensible data.


Best Regards,

Andy




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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Colin Smale]

On 25 November 2017 16:04:45 CET, "Éric Gillet"  
wrote:
> Another point : This password is not secure, but what the worst that
>could
>happen with it ? As long as one don't reuse it on other applications
>(as
>warned during registration), the only action an attacker could do would
>be
>to unsubscribe you. Not really catastrophic
...until it is hacked and thousands of passwords are stolen. If even one of 
those leads to something serious, I am not sure that saying "I told you so 10 
years ago when you signed up" will be enough to absolve the operators of 
liability.

I will open a ticket as suggested.

//colin

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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 19/11/2017 20:59, Martijn van Exel wrote:
For those who have used MapRoulette or at least have a good 
understanding of what it does: what would be the *one top thing* for 
you that would make it better?




Most importantly,

I'd try and make it a bit more obvious what it is.  When you go to 
http://maproulette.org/ you see a map, some numbers, and not much else.  
There's a "sign in" button, but nothing explaining what benefits there 
are (to me or it) from doing so.  Nothing says what the site is or what 
it is for.  The only mention of OSM is in the attibution at the bottom 
right, and that says "CC-BY-SA".



In addition:

Pressing return in the search box doesn't do anything.

What is presumably a settings icon at the right just displays some 
numbers but doesn't say what they are (e.g. "Total Tasks" - but what is 
a "Task"?)


There's a button at the top left that just seems to refresh the screen.

If I zoom in to a marker the "Edit" and "False Positive" buttons are 
greyed out, though oddly there are keyboard shortcuts for these. There 
are hard-coded options for a couple of OSM editors (though again oddly 
not a basic "edit" link).


The "I fixed it" button produces a "Not Authorised" error.

Best Regards,
Andy

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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[carlo folini]

In QGIS ho caricato il WMS dell'ADE e un layer OSM.
Purtroppo sono sfasati, come si fa ad allinearli? il corrispondente
dell'utilissimo "New offset" di JOSM

Ciao
Carlo


Mail
priva di virus. www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Il giorno 25 novembre 2017 15:49, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu <
liste.gira...@posteo.eu> ha scritto:

> Il 25/11/2017 15:45, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:
>
>> Il 25/11/2017 07:43, Alessandro Sarretta ha scritto:
>>
>>> A me da QGIS funziona, in JOSM dà errore (forse un problema di
>>> certificati non validati che JOSM non riesce a saltare?).
>>>
>>> Ale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Credo sia il tipo di WMS (vers 1.3) non accettato da Josm, con Qgis vedo
>> diversi livelli, ed inizialmente mi dava errore di connessione SSL, che
>> ignorandola comunque carica i vari strati.
>>
>>
>> Dimenticavo, il Trentino Alto - Adige non c'è, è per conto suo.
> --
> _|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
> |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
> Simone Girardelli
>
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-- 
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mailto:carlo.fol...@gmail.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Éric Gillet]

Hmm it seams released in April 2015, but anyway it's been some time since
the release.
It's not mentionned in the Operations issue tracker
, maybe you could open
an issue there to suggest upgrading to mailman 3.
But it seems to be a rewrite of mailman, so it may be not trivial to
migrate to this version.

Another point : This password is not secure, but what the worst that could
happen with it ? As long as one don't reuse it on other applications (as
warned during registration), the only action an attacker could do would be
to unsubscribe you. Not really catastrophic

2017-11-25 12:55 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :

> On 2017-11-25 11:53, Éric Gillet wrote:
>
> This is non-ideal, but you were warned during your account creation that
> this password is to be considered non-secure :
>
> > You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild
> security, but should prevent others from messing with your subscription. Do
> not use a valuable password as it will occasionally be emailed back to you
> in cleartext.
>
>
> Thanks Éric, I admit that "I was warned" but I still find it scandalous in
> this day and age... It seems this shortcoming in mailman was fixed in V3,
> released in 2014. I read here that V3 no longer stores
> unencrypted/decryptable passwords:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-July/077411.html
>
> Are we still running V2.1?
>
> //colin
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 25/11/2017 15:45, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:

Il 25/11/2017 07:43, Alessandro Sarretta ha scritto:
A me da QGIS funziona, in JOSM dà errore (forse un problema di 
certificati non validati che JOSM non riesce a saltare?).


Ale




Credo sia il tipo di WMS (vers 1.3) non accettato da Josm, con Qgis vedo 
diversi livelli, ed inizialmente mi dava errore di connessione SSL, che 
ignorandola comunque carica i vari strati.




Dimenticavo, il Trentino Alto - Adige non c'è, è per conto suo.
--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 25/11/2017 07:43, Alessandro Sarretta ha scritto:
A me da QGIS funziona, in JOSM dà errore (forse un problema di 
certificati non validati che JOSM non riesce a saltare?).


Ale




Credo sia il tipo di WMS (vers 1.3) non accettato da Josm, con Qgis vedo 
diversi livelli, ed inizialmente mi dava errore di connessione SSL, che 
ignorandola comunque carica i vari strati.



--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-cz] Pokemoni v Kladrubech?

[Matej Lieskovský]

Žádný maják tam nevidím a jinak stav v OSM celkem vypadá jako realistický
důsledek té stavby, kterou je možno vidět na letecké mapě od Seznamu. Kde
je ten maják?

2017-11-24 23:40 GMT+01:00 :

> https://openstreetmap.cz/#map=17/49.71669/12.97915=x
>
> Podle letecké mapy Seznamu to ještě v loňském srpnu bylo pole. Maják je
> tam od předloni...
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[OSM-talk-ie] Royal demense

[Tadeusz Cantwell]

Came across an old article which talked about royal demense areas in
Dublin, in the 1930's. Are they still areas used in planning?

Tadeusz
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Re: [talk-au] Pokemon / doodles in Noranda, Perth? (Andy Townsend)

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 24/11/2017 16:42, angus wrote:

These two parks appear genuine



I was wondering about the spelling to be honest.  With 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260221961 the surrounding road is 
"Kirkpatrick Crescent" but the park is "Kilpatrick Reserve".  I'm 
guessing that one or the other is wrong?


Best Regards,
Andy


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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2017-11-23

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-11-23

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-11-23/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-11-23

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-11-25 11:53, Éric Gillet wrote: 

> This is non-ideal, but you were warned during your account creation that this 
> password is to be considered non-secure : 
> 
>> You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild security, 
>> but should prevent others from messing with your subscription. Do not use a 
>> valuable password as it will occasionally be emailed back to you in 
>> cleartext.

Thanks Éric, I admit that "I was warned" but I still find it scandalous
in this day and age... It seems this shortcoming in mailman was fixed in
V3, released in 2014. I read here that V3 no longer stores
unencrypted/decryptable passwords: 

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-July/077411.html 

Are we still running V2.1? 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Richard]

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:12:19AM +0100, Colin Smale wrote:
> I just got an email from the mailing list system that my
> account/membership had been disabled due to "excessive bounces". I have
> no idea why, but that is not the point I want to make here. My point is
> that the email I received contained my password to that account, in
> plain text! 

you mean the useless password to modify your list membership and 
options? I never set one, it will generate one for me and email 
to to me anyway. It is not supposed to be secure at all.

Problem would be if someone sets the password and uses a "valuable"
one, perhaps mistakenly thinking he should enter his OSM password
there.

> WTF#1: Why is it remembering the cleartext password and not a
> non-reversible hash? 
> 
> WTF#2: Why is it sending my password around in the email? 

IMHO the password is useless for 97% of users and should cease to
exist. Where some authentication to the list server is needed send 
a link or code via email or more secure methods.

Richard

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hebdoOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 383 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9731/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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hebdoOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 383 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9731/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk] finding overlapping buildings

[john whelan]

> What you think is an error probably not error to me/others and your
corrections will just make more troubles to me/others.

Let's get this very clear.  What I'm after is a tool to guide me into
overlapping buildings only.  Nothing else.  Once I have them I load them
into the todo list and visually inspect each one before deciding which if
any to delete.  I assume we are in agreement that the buildings should not
be mapped twice?  The area of interest to me is rural Africa.

I assume if I spot a building that has been mapped twice manually there is
no objection to me deleting it?  I do realise I should do a changeset
comment for each and wait a month for a reply but realistically there are
too many.

This is no different to a manual inspection of the buildings and deleting
one if I see it mapped twice or would you prefer me to retag one somehow so
the academics can find a new subject for a PhD?

I make no comment as to why it has been mapped twice.  It doesn't really
interest me other than to prevent it happening again.

I have no interest in anything other than simple buildings.

Accurate building information is very important in parts of Africa.  It is
used for population estimates for a start.  You take the floor area and
multiply by the average number of people per square metre.  This doesn't
work if you map buildings as a node.  If you have very limited resources
where do you put a new school?  I've seen one instance where the official
estimate was a thousand buildings in one section.  An OSM supporter managed
to arrange a very special mapping event.  It was restricted to GIS
professionals from local governments apart from one or two experienced
mappers.  They very accurately mapped six thousand buildings.  The quality
of the mapping was some of the highest I've seen.  This had a huge impact
on the resources allocated for schools water supplies etc. in the area.
OSM is a very cost effective tool for local government planning when you
have very little money.

The NGOs are also very interested in this type of information.  How many
doses of vaccine do we send?

Pierre can probably give you more information on why accurate building
outline information is important.

We need a decent building_tool plugin for iD but that's another story.

Cheerio John

On 25 November 2017 at 03:47, SandorS  wrote:

> John,
>
> by a step of abstraction, you are touching one of the most complex and
> complicated issues related to the OSM source data. Namely, replications and
> overlaps as its consequences. Let us focus on area overlaps and especially
> on the kind you have mentioned – when the overlapping geometries, with high
> probability, represent the same object or parts of it. There are 100s of
> thousands of these in the source data. The consequences are large/huge
> number of errors/anomalies present in all today publicly available OSM
> based maps. I am not sure what JOSM (and other tools) can do with these
> errors but obviously very little because they are there. The issue has been
> up for discussion several times on this and other OSM forums.
>
> The majority of the replications are cased by bot/programmatic/mass edits.
> We have really large number of edits-over-edits-over... and, as you know,
> checking whether two almost overlapping geometries represent the same
> real-world object is far beyond a simple exercise and the power of a
> “script” solution. This many replications are the reason why we don’t like
> (even don’t want) extensive use of mass edits, quick fixes and similar
> options (exception, with DWG’s approval).  There are several typical area
> overlapping classes/types. To be short, just in few words and links to
> illustrative examples (arguments) from the lake area objects.
>
> The outer border polygons exactly overlap but the areas have different
> hole structures (covers case of identical geometries). For instance here
> https://osm.org/go/y3Q5zNY- (missing islands, how many?).
>
> Outer polygon section of a smaller area exactly overlaps an outer border
> section of a larger area like here https://goo.gl/aAvEkM (exact fragment
> overlaps, how many?).
>
> Corridor replica (overlaps) when some border polygons of two geometries
> are so close to each other that with a very high probability the geometries
> represent the same real world object, like here https://goo.gl/DtF2nA.
>
> Just to mention some and of course, many combinations of the former cases.
> While a solid/robust data preparation should detect and correct/repair (and
> it does) the mentioned overlap cases, still there is an overlap class
> raising a dilemma what to do. These are when a smaller area is strictly
> inside of a larger in the same class, e.g. lakes (the smaller outer is
> strictly inside a larger outer and outside any holes of the larger) like
> here https://goo.gl/7HUX43 or here https://goo.gl/TjfP9o or here
> https://goo.gl/H8E3L5 or here https://goo.gl/ZY64u3  ... not to mention
> the confusion 

semanarioOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Hola, el semanario Nº 383, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/9731/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
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[Talk-us] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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hebdoOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 383 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9731/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
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traduire les messages.

semanarioOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Hola, el semanario Nº 383, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/9731/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
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semanarioOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Hola, el semanario Nº 383, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/9731/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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semanarioOSM Nº 383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

Hola, el semanario Nº 383, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/9731/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk-ie] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-in] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #383 2017-11-14-2017-11-20

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 383,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9731/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] utilisation bano et fantoir

[Christian Rogel]

> Le 25 nov. 2017 à 02:00, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 25 novembre 2017 à 00:25, Christian Rogel 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> > Le 24 nov. 2017 à 21:30, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>> >
>> > Encore un dégât connexe du(es) vandale(s) bascophone(s) qui veulent 
>> > éliminer toute référence à la France ou à la langue française il me semble…
>> 
>> Assimiler langue et graphie, celle-ci nécessairement évolutive, relève d’un 
>> contre-sens idéologique hélas commun…
>> 
>> L’ignorance de la toponymie historique a encore frappé, même 
>> Verdy-qui-sait-tout-sur-tout.
> 
> Ca c'est une attaque publique ad nominem encore... Quel intérêt as-tu à 
> pourrir cette liste avec de tels propos?

Cher Philippe,

Ma réaction d’agacement vient du fait qu’alors que tu as montré que tu es 
capable de propos concis et efficaces (il y a des rechutes, mais c’est beaucoup 
plus supportable), cette appréciation sur les « vandales bascophones » était, 
par exagération inverse, plutôt sommaire.
Au Pays basque, comme dans d’autres régions, certaines communes entreprennent 
une modification de leur toponymie et cela, par définition, sans respect de « 
l’historique ».
OSM se trouve, aussi, être le réceptacle de démarche militantes, mais, 
restituer des appellations n’est pas du vandalisme ou de l’arbitraire, tout au 
plus une méconnaissance des règles.
A distance, il est impossible de savoir quel savoir est mis en oeuvre pour les 
noms de voie et de lieux et si la commune a délibéré, le cadastre n’étant à 
jour que dans les grandes agglomérations.
Seuls des contributeurs locaux peuvent déterminer la validité des choix, en 
interrogeant, si nécessaire, la commune.
En bref, modifier les toponymes du COG est une infraction à nos règles, mais, 
le reste est évolutif et, parfois, doublonné.
Rappel ultime : là-bas, la majorité des noms des lieux-dits sont en basque et 
non en français, beaucoup de noms de voie sont mixtes, mais parfois basquisés, 
sachant que le générique (chemin de…) peut être suffixé.

Christian R.

P. S. : Je fais l’effort de te lire et de te répondre, ce qui n’est pas le cas 
de tous. Tu es plus en phase avec les règles du débat, mais, tu confonds « ad 
hominem » avec « ad personam ». Je ne visais que tes raccourcis, pas 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Éric Gillet]

2017-11-25 11:12 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :

> My point is that the email I received contained my password to that
> account, in plain text!
>
> WTF#1: Why is it remembering the cleartext password and not a
> non-reversible hash?
>
> WTF#2: Why is it sending my password around in the email?
>
> My feeling is that this needs fixing, and quick.
>
This is non-ideal, but you were warned during your account creation that
this password is to be considered non-secure :

> You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild security,
but should prevent others from messing with your subscription. Do not use a
valuable password as it will occasionally be emailed back to you in
cleartext.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

I don't think that this mailing-list software (mailman
) can work with hashed
passwords.
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Re: [Talk-it] Agenzia delle uscite - Consultazione cartografia catastale - Web Map Service

[aborruso]

Ciao Stefano,


stefano campus wrote
> hanno risolto il problema del danno erariale?
> se sì allora la licenza è stupida, se no allora è un miracolo che abbiano
> pubblicato questo wms

vero se fosse solo NC, ma qui il primo muro invalicabile è l'ND, che rende
il servizio praticamente inutile.

Sul non commerciale, c'è prima da cambiare una legge.

Saluti



-
Andrea Borruso 

 
email: aborr...@tin.it 
website: http://blog.spaziogis.it
my 2.0 life: http://aborruso.spaziogis.it
feed: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/Tanto
38° 7' 48" N, 13° 21' 9" E 

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[Dave F]

You need evidence that randomness combined with guesswork produces 
erroneous output? Really? Look around, it's everywhere!


DaveF

On 25/11/2017 01:37, Martijn van Exel wrote:

I’d appreciate you back that statement up with some data that goes beyond some 
isolated examples, Dave.


On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Dave F  wrote:


On 24/11/2017 07:59, joost schouppe wrote:

For example, "Skipped" to me means "meh, didn't feel like doing this task".

No! it's an option to ignore the task if the user doesn't think there's 
anything wrong. Maproulette is based on guesswork. A task doesn't mean there's 
an error that definitely needs fixing

There appears to be a compulsion by users to complete tasks in Maproulette even 
when they have no *accurate* knowledge. This is wrong. It adds *erroneous* data 
to OSM.

There's a clue to Maproulette's randomness & uncertainty in its name.

I believe a good way to improve OSM data is to ban Maproulette.

DaveF



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Re: [OSM-talk] finding overlapping buildings

[john whelan]

Thinking it through I can already select buildings then validate for
crossing ways.  Dump the selection in a new layer and save it.

Restart JOSM to clear the memory then load up the saved layer and the todo
list.  I can even chap down the number loaded into the layer.

I think this is workable.

Unclosed buildings aren't an issue.  I can pick these up in JOSM with
unclosed ways then just look at the buildings one by one.  There doesn't
seem to be that many.

Thanks John

On 24 November 2017 at 21:01, john whelan  wrote:

> My gut feel is as simple as possible especially when dealing with larger
> areas.
>
> I loaded a 215 kb file into JOSM and found 181 duplicated buildings but
> after dumping them in a todo list JOSM seemed reluctant to delete them one
> at a time.
>
> Could it work through a selected area?  There is already a crossing way
> validation so selecting buildings only then validating for crossing
> buildings then running the script on what was left might be faster.
>
> I wouldn't like to say I specialize on validating maperthons so much as do
> clean ups in ares where they have left their foot print.
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 24 November 2017 at 20:12, Mike Thompson  wrote:
>
>> I have a fix for the speed issue, but need to test before posting. There
>> is also bug with how the overlap is computed.  Do you want both tests in
>> the same script? I could include "building ways with unclosed area",
>> anything else?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>
>>> Ok
>>>
>>> for the script, I simply commented the console print message and it does
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Great if developpers could collaborate to improve this as a Building
>>> Validation plugin. It could include other features such as building ways
>>> with unclosed area
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>> Le vendredi 24 novembre 2017 18:03:48 HNE, Mike Thompson <
>>> miketh...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:43 PM, john whelan 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> > For a small number it works well.  When faced with a sample with a
>>> thousand buildings it takes a little longer.
>>> I will work on speeding it up.  It this proves useful to the community,
>>> I may try and make it into a plugin (to also include the
>>> SelectNonOrthogonalBuildings function), which should be faster.  Advice
>>> from experienced JOSM developers welcome on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>> > So thank you kindly sir.
>>> You are welcome.  Glad to be able to help out.
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-dk] Kortlægning af meget store markområder

[Leif Lodahl]

Hej Michael,
Tak for svar.
Fsva. de store landområder synes jeg det er en balance mellem på den ene
side at opmærke meget store områder på en gang og den ekstra kompleksitet,
som metoden medfører. Det tvinger andre mappere til hele tiden at forholde
sig til det omkringliggende objekt og lave relationer. Det er netop derfor
jeg spørger om andres holdning/mening. Er denne ekstra kompleksitet ikke
for høj en pris?

Mht. mine relationer, så *stor tak* for din forklaring. Jeg kan se at jeg
har gjort det helt forkert hidtil. Det beklager jeg meget. Jeg prøver mig
frem de kommende dage, og får rettet op på nogle af de fejl jeg har lavet.
Det kan være jeg vender tilbage med konkrete spørgsmål senere.


Mvh.
Leif

Den 24. november 2017 kl. 20.46 skrev Michael Andersen :

> Områderne (der er flere af dem) ser netop underlige ud, men ser man f.eks.
> på
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1356072/history vil man kunne se at
> denne er oprettet af brugeren "trekki" i januar 2011 (den præcise dato ses
> i
> JOSM's historik dialog) på baggrund af Bing satellitfotos, som på det
> tidspunkt kun dækkede dele af Danmark (derfor områdernes skarpe hjørner
> mod NØ
> & NV).
>
> Bemærk at hver af disse store landuse=farmland områder defineres af en
> multipolygon, hvor gårde og andre "huller" så er defineret som "inner".
> Hvorvidt det er "korrekt  og accepteret" kan måske diskuteres, men det er i
> hvert fald en nem måde at kortlægge et stort område der primært er
> landbrugsland.
> Bemærk også at lignende store multipolygoner bruges meget til bl.a. skove
> og
> søer.
>
> Ulempen ved disse multipolygoner er at det langt fra er alle der
> umiddelbart
> forstår dem og at det for en del af os kan tage en del tid at få fod på
> dem og
> at det derfor af hensyn til vores mange begyndere og relativt uerfarne er
> en
> god ide kun at bruge dem hvor de virkelig er en fordel.
>
> På hvilken måde oplever du problemer med disse?
>
> Bemærk iøvrigt at jeg har rettet et par små multipolygoner du har lavet i
> dag
> (eks. https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7757092/history). Når man
> laver
> sådan en skal "landuse" tagget være på relationen og ikke den ydre "vej"
> (se
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:multipolygon). Denne type
> fejl
> rapporteres på https://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ og i perioder retter
> forskellige andre bidragsydere næsten dagligt 1-3 tekniske fejl du laver.
>
> Mvh Michael
>
> On fredag den 24. november 2017 17.49.39 CET Leif Lodahl wrote:
> > Hej med jer,
> > Jeg faldt lige over en lidt underlig kortlægning her:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/56.2148/9.5792
> >
> > Der er tale om et *enormt* stort område, som er kortlagt med
> > landuse=farmland og alt andet i området er så multipoligon-relationer.
> >
> > Efter min mening gør det kortlægning usædvanligt besværligt.
> >
> > Er dette en korrekt og accepteret måde?
> >
> >
> > Med venlig hilsen
> >
> > Leif Lodahl
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk
>
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[OSM-talk] Mailing list security

[Colin Smale]

I just got an email from the mailing list system that my
account/membership had been disabled due to "excessive bounces". I have
no idea why, but that is not the point I want to make here. My point is
that the email I received contained my password to that account, in
plain text! 

WTF#1: Why is it remembering the cleartext password and not a
non-reversible hash? 

WTF#2: Why is it sending my password around in the email? 

My feeling is that this needs fixing, and quick. 

//colin___
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Re: [OSM-talk] finding overlapping buildings

[SandorS]

John,
by a step of abstraction, you are touching one of the most complex and 
complicated issues related to the OSM source data. Namely, replications and 
overlaps as its consequences. Let us focus on area overlaps and especially on 
the kind you have mentioned – when the overlapping geometries, with high 
probability, represent the same object or parts of it. There are 100s of 
thousands of these in the source data. The consequences are large/huge number 
of errors/anomalies present in all today publicly available OSM based maps. I 
am not sure what JOSM (and other tools) can do with these errors but obviously 
very little because they are there. The issue has been up for discussion 
several times on this and other OSM forums.
The majority of the replications are cased by bot/programmatic/mass edits. We 
have really large number of edits-over-edits-over... and, as you know, checking 
whether two almost overlapping geometries represent the same real-world object 
is far beyond a simple exercise and the power of a “script” solution. This many 
replications are the reason why we don’t like (even don’t want) extensive use 
of mass edits, quick fixes and similar options (exception, with DWG’s 
approval).  There are several typical area overlapping classes/types. To be 
short, just in few words and links to illustrative examples (arguments) from 
the lake area objects.
The outer border polygons exactly overlap but the areas have different hole 
structures (covers case of identical geometries). For instance here 
https://osm.org/go/y3Q5zNY- (missing islands, how many?).
Outer polygon section of a smaller area exactly overlaps an outer border 
section of a larger area like here https://goo.gl/aAvEkM (exact fragment 
overlaps, how many?).
Corridor replica (overlaps) when some border polygons of two geometries are so 
close to each other that with a very high probability the geometries represent 
the same real world object, like here https://goo.gl/DtF2nA. 
Just to mention some and of course, many combinations of the former cases. 
While a solid/robust data preparation should detect and correct/repair (and it 
does) the mentioned overlap cases, still there is an overlap class raising a 
dilemma what to do. These are when a smaller area is strictly inside of a 
larger in the same class, e.g. lakes (the smaller outer is strictly inside a 
larger outer and outside any holes of the larger) like here 
https://goo.gl/7HUX43 or here https://goo.gl/TjfP9o or here 
https://goo.gl/H8E3L5 or here https://goo.gl/ZY64u3  ... not to mention the 
confusion in the Venezia lagoon. Trusting the tags only, these areas are 
redundant and should be ignored but according the Wiki rules and trusting the 
geometry these smaller areas should be holes.
Having in mind only raster map-making, the mentioned anomalies/errors are not 
so important (blue is blue for lakes, green is green for forests...). At the 
same time for the OSM based GIS and vector map-making the overlaps present 
serious issues/problems. Just take the procedures like defragmentation, data 
generalization, tiling, rectangular clipping and so on. 
Finally, anomalies/errors in the OSM source data in certain cases represent a 
valuable attribute. There is no richer and larger source of serious and complex 
issues for research and academia related to topology, polygon algebra, 
algorithms, programing... than the OSM source data. So, insisting on 
corrections, especially by mass editing, should not be a OSM strategy. These 
errors are there, some will go and many new will come. Instead, strengthen you 
data preparation tool and offer it to users with arguments. But please, do not 
touch the source data. What you think is an error probably not error to 
me/others and your corrections will just make more troubles to me/others.
Regards, Sandor.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: john whelan
Sent: 22 November 2017 00:19
To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: [OSM-talk] finding overlapping buildings

Can someone describe a method I can locate these in JOSM.  I'm not after 
crossing buildings but just those that are mapped twice so two buildings with 
50% or more overlap.

Straight duplicates aren't a problem but ones that are drawn twice by two 
different mappers are.  Yes I know it shouldn't happen but it does.

Thanks John

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