Re: [Talk-us] Coconino National Forest boundary isn't rendering anymore?

[Paul Norman via Talk-us]

On 2020-07-15 3:00 p.m., Paul White wrote:
Does anybody know why the Coconino National Forest doesn't render on 
osm.org  anymore? I don't see any recent changes that 
would've messed anything up but it's gone. I also noticed that the 
Klamath National Forest is gone, as well.


I assume you're talking about 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10956348#map=15/35.1483/-111.6705? 
It is rendered - you can see the green outline and text.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11239975 is a different issue. It 
looks like it might be complex enough that it hits the recursion limits 
of the geometry assembler.


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Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit

[Paul Norman via Talk-us]

Given the low numbers of 7-digit numbers I recommend correcting them manually rather than writing code to do it.On Aug 8, 2019 2:02 PM, Alex Hennings  wrote:Fixed: references -> relations.Noted: "False impression of data freshness". I hadn't considered this and I would like more opinions.Regarding
 "single area-code Question" I think you're talking about 7 digit 
numbers, and my plan to optimistically appending an area code in cases 
like Maine where there is only one area code. I acknowledge that as the 
weakest of the assumptions but I thought of it as a safe guess and a net
 positive change. For context on why I feel confident, living in Maine 
where we only have one area code, locals will omit the area code 
because we don't need it when dialing locally.Regarding "how many seven-digit numbers" Good question! There are 6 in Maine, 163 in USA.(node    ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']    (area:3600063512); // or 3609331155 for usa way    ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']    (area:3600063512); relation    ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']    (area:3600063512);); out count;The C# tools I'm building should work with any c# IDE. I use VisualStudio which is free, and available on iOS and Windows. I'm happy to help if you want to get them up and running.-Alex

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 3:58 PM Kevin Broderick  wrote:I'm of mixed feelings on the apparent freshness, but as long as the guidelines are followed so changesets are of reasonable size and easily identified as scripted, I don't see much of an issue.While having an automated script make assumptions caused me to twitch a little, the reality is that a human is going to make the same assumption. If I see a seven-digit number on a sign and want to dial it, I'm going to assume that the area code is 207; if I'm across the state line in New Hampshire, I'm going to assume 603. If that assumption isn't correct, the source data is bad anyhow, and adding the implicit area code isn't making it substantially worse. Have you been able to discern how many seven-digit numbers are in the system?On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:56 PM Jmapb  wrote:On 8/8/2019 1:28 PM, Alex Hennings wrote:
> Community,
>
> I'm planning a scripted change and would like feedback. Plans are
> outlined here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/blackboxlogic
>
> I'd appreciate feedback or questions in the 'Discussion' portion of
> that wiki page, or within this email list.

Hi Alex!

First, a possible typo: I think "Nodes, Ways and References" should be
"Nodes, Ways and Relations"?

I'm a fan of the +1-xxx-xxx- format, since it's the only standard
format that's visually intuitive to North American users. I often switch
numbers to this format when I make updates to an existing POI.

Personally, though, I've always felt a little uneasy about automated
updates like this because they give a false impression of the freshness
of the data. If it's been five years since any "real" updates to a POI,
I'd rather that the date of last update reflected that. It's hard to
gauge the community consensus on this issue, but IMO running this on
POIs that have been manually updated (ie not by a mass edit) in the last
6 months would be fine.

Regarding the single area code question... now that cell phones, VOIP,
and nationwide calling plans are ubiquitous, the idea that a certain
area code refers to a certain area is steadily eroding. I have started
to see a few businesses with out-of-state phone numbers on their
signs... but at this point it's still more likely that an out-of-state
area code is an error or SEO spam. I'd suggest that these would go into
your "Manually review or flag" category.

Regardless, the idea that an area can have a single "traditional" area
code is still true. Personally I have no problem with prepending the
traditional area code onto 7-digit phone numbers. (I do it all the time
in manual mapping.)

Finally, thanks for posting your tools... I see these are written in
CSharp, which I'm only tangentially familiar with. What sort of
environment would one need to build these?

Thanks, Jason



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Re: [Talk-us] What is the meaning of hgv:national_network=yes/terminal_access?

[Paul Norman via Talk-us]

On 2019-08-04 7:56 a.m., Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

I've found this undocumented tag, used 130,000 times, almost
exclusively in the USA.

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/hgv%3Anational_network#overview

Values: yes 86.56%   terminal_access 13.37%

I thought it might be imported from Tiger, but the usage has increased
gradually since 2012: 60k more ways have been tagged in that time.


If you look at the length, it increased to 10 km in Nov 2011, and to 
132000 km in Nov 2012. Aside from those sudden increases, there has been 
no change in usage.



How are these tags being used?


They're not.


I'm guessing that hgv:national_network=yes means that a road is
designated for heavy trucks to use for long-distance trips.


It means that it has a particular designation for budget purposes with a 
department of the federal government.


If I'm recalling correctly, these tags were invented by NE2 and never 
subject to any discussion, no data consumers use them, and they are 
poorly documented.


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Re: [Talk-us] US map rendering (Was: Re: Spot elevations collected as natural=peak and name=Point (height in feet))

[Paul Norman via Talk-us]

As a maintainer of some of the projects listed, I find that you're 
misrepresenting the situation.


On 2019-03-08 11:25 a.m., Kevin Kenny wrote:

I've sounded out the maintainers of various of the OSM software, and
get different assessments.
osm2pgsql - Actively hostile to supporting what I need, contend that
osm2pgsql is the wrong tool for the job.


This is incorrect. Both maintainers have interest in adding 
functionality for propagating information from relations to ways - as 
opposed to from ways to relations, which is already supported. Neither 
of us have the free time to code it. If someone wanted to take this on, 
we'd help with the related issues like Lua API changes.



OSM Carto - Little interest, but that's because of the emphasis on
consistent rendering worldwide, and this is really a project specific
to North America.


Pictorial road shields require rendering ref from route relations, and 
that is not an easy problem to solve. I'm on record as doubting it can 
be solved given the technical and cartographic constraints the style 
faces. Allowing propagation of information from relations to ways would 
change that.


It sucks to hear that it won't be implemented without someone stepping 
forward with pull requests, but that's the reality of the situation.



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