Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[joost schouppe]

2017-06-22 17:49 GMT+02:00 Ben Discoe :

> Bizarrely, they went ahead and reverted my quality-improvement edits,
> which I suppose means that next time I'll need to do more research,
> discussion and education before committing this type of cleanup, to
> prevent this sort of pointless, inefficient thrashing of the database.
> I am not used to there being anyone to communicate with when I clean
> up large inefficient data (for example, the years I've spent cleaning
> up NHD, or the week spent on the Peoria's imported buildings and
> bloated woods) but in this case, it turns out there was someone, who
> got needlessly alarmed at my cleanup.


The same seems to hold for the cleanup you did in Holland, where you seem
to have missed further comments in this discussion about changeset 47241744
(an example was added by "de vries" of a case where you clearly lowered
geometric quality).

It's a mess to find where the local community talks, but in Holland there
clearly is someone to talk to.

-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Warin]

On 23-Jun-17 12:49 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
So Warin's proposal should use +, not dot. With plus you can append 
anything, with dot the other characters should remain the same.


m


Yep. + not dot.

I just tried it .. the+ works
 If you use thunderbird for your email, the + still comes in to your 
inbox.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Marc Gemis]

So Warin's proposal should use +, not dot. With plus you can append
anything, with dot the other characters should remain the same.

m

Op 23 jun. 2017 00:54 schreef "Éric Gillet" :

2017-06-23 0:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Alvarez :

> > Ben .. you could try, say, bdiscoe@gmail.com and
> bdiscoe.old...@gmail.com - they should both end up in you gmail account.
>
> Are you saying that if anyone emails nicolas.whate...@gmail.com it will
> reach me? That... doesn't sound right.
>

Please check out this link

.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Éric Gillet]

2017-06-23 0:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Alvarez :

> > Ben .. you could try, say, bdiscoe@gmail.com and
> bdiscoe.old...@gmail.com - they should both end up in you gmail account.
>
> Are you saying that if anyone emails nicolas.whate...@gmail.com it will
> reach me? That... doesn't sound right.
>

Please check out this link

.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Nicolás Alvarez]

> El 22 jun 2017, a las 19:27, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> escribió:
> 
>> On 23-Jun-17 02:45 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>>> On Thursday 22 June 2017, Ben Discoe wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, the likely reason I didn't see changeset comments is that my
>>> active OSM account ("bdiscoe") is registered to an old, hard-to-reach
>>> email address (b...@vterrain.org), and (so far) OSM won't let me
>>> change the email address associated with the account to my current
>>> address (this one, bdis...@gmail.com), because that email is
>>> associated with my old, unused OSM account ("Ben Discoe").  I'm not
>>> sure how to fix that, but I'd really like to.
>> You probably (temporarily) need a third email address to assign to your
>> old account to free your gmail address to use it for your normal one.
>> 
>> You can also get a feed with discussions of your changesets on
>> 
>> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=402624
> Gmail users can use a 'dot' extension to their email address that might get 
> recognised as a different address by OSM.
> 
> Ben .. you could try, say, bdiscoe@gmail.com and bdiscoe.old...@gmail.com 
> - they should both end up in you gmail account.

Are you saying that if anyone emails nicolas.whate...@gmail.com it will reach 
me? That... doesn't sound right.

-- 
Nicolás
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Warin]

On 23-Jun-17 02:45 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Thursday 22 June 2017, Ben Discoe wrote:


BTW, the likely reason I didn't see changeset comments is that my
active OSM account ("bdiscoe") is registered to an old, hard-to-reach
email address (b...@vterrain.org), and (so far) OSM won't let me
change the email address associated with the account to my current
address (this one, bdis...@gmail.com), because that email is
associated with my old, unused OSM account ("Ben Discoe").  I'm not
sure how to fix that, but I'd really like to.

You probably (temporarily) need a third email address to assign to your
old account to free your gmail address to use it for your normal one.

You can also get a feed with discussions of your changesets on

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=402624


Gmail users can use a 'dot' extension to their email address that might get 
recognised as a different address by OSM.

Ben .. you could try, say, bdiscoe@gmail.com and bdiscoe.old...@gmail.com - 
they should both end up in you gmail account.

Good Luck.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 22 June 2017, Ben Discoe wrote:
>
> I haven't seen those changeset comments, but I did get a message from
> a "marek kleciak" claiming that my cleanup operations were
> "destroying work of other mappers."  I carefully explained to him all
> about the edits I performed (they are semi-manual with full visual
> verification (not automatic), nothing moved more than a meter,
> quality was improved, and all the good reasons why such cleanup is
> important).

Discussion is on

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49549101

by the way.

While i think these edits make some sense i don't really think the gain 
warrants the trouble.  This is different from some imports were 70-90 
percent of the nodes are redundant because the data was generated with 
some automated methods and originally meant for other purposes.

In general this kind of mapping, i.e. mapping landcover on a finely 
structured landscape like this on the scale of individual trees - but 
not as individual trees but as polygons - is a bit problematic because 
ultimately this often leads to non-verifiable data.  Does an 
uncultivated strip between fields maybe 10m wide with some trees 
constitute a strip of woodland?  Does a small gap between trees of like 
20m in an otherwise dense woodland constitute a gap in the forest?  
This does not mean this cannot and should not be mapped but with that 
in mind it is kind of silly arguing about if the polygon boundaries 
might be moved by a meter or so at some places.

> BTW, the likely reason I didn't see changeset comments is that my
> active OSM account ("bdiscoe") is registered to an old, hard-to-reach
> email address (b...@vterrain.org), and (so far) OSM won't let me
> change the email address associated with the account to my current
> address (this one, bdis...@gmail.com), because that email is
> associated with my old, unused OSM account ("Ben Discoe").  I'm not
> sure how to fix that, but I'd really like to.

You probably (temporarily) need a third email address to assign to your 
old account to free your gmail address to use it for your normal one.

You can also get a feed with discussions of your changesets on

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=402624

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Ben Discoe]

> The changeset comment quoted by Andy is on some sort of automated edits
> simplifying forests by user bdiscoe.

I haven't seen those changeset comments, but I did get a message from
a "marek kleciak" claiming that my cleanup operations were "destroying
work of other mappers."  I carefully explained to him all about the
edits I performed (they are semi-manual with full visual verification
(not automatic), nothing moved more than a meter, quality was
improved, and all the good reasons why such cleanup is important).

Bizarrely, they went ahead and reverted my quality-improvement edits,
which I suppose means that next time I'll need to do more research,
discussion and education before committing this type of cleanup, to
prevent this sort of pointless, inefficient thrashing of the database.
I am not used to there being anyone to communicate with when I clean
up large inefficient data (for example, the years I've spent cleaning
up NHD, or the week spent on the Peoria's imported buildings and
bloated woods) but in this case, it turns out there was someone, who
got needlessly alarmed at my cleanup.

> Based on the type of edits and
> http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?bdiscoe I think they probably are not associated
> with the NRCS training.

My edits are definitely not associated with mistakes made during
newbie training. :)  I do see newbie edits as important, and I am glad
to see somebody notice those issues and try to educate them.

BTW, the likely reason I didn't see changeset comments is that my
active OSM account ("bdiscoe") is registered to an old, hard-to-reach
email address (b...@vterrain.org), and (so far) OSM won't let me change
the email address associated with the account to my current address
(this one, bdis...@gmail.com), because that email is associated with
my old, unused OSM account ("Ben Discoe").  I'm not sure how to fix
that, but I'd really like to.

-Ben

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Dan Joseph]

Hi Frederik,

If someone lives in a place and starts learning how to use OSM to map their
surroundings they don't count as part of the "community"? If their first
edits aren't perfect then they don't pass your test and can't join the OSM
community?

Constrained by time and resources (as everything in life is), I can think
of many topics and skills that I would rank as higher priority then how to
engage in discussion on a changeset comment thread.

The changeset comment quoted by Andy is on some sort of automated edits
simplifying forests by user bdiscoe. Based on the type of edits and
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?bdiscoe I think they probably are not associated
with the NRCS training.

Cheers,
Dan

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 21.06.2017 23:48, Dan Joseph wrote:
> > NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits
> > are part of the local community.
>
> The word "community" is used in a lot of different ways in OSM. When I
> speak of "the local community" I ususally mean "the OSM mappers who live
> there", not "anyone who lives there".
>
> I'd like to echo Pieree's question - are the NRCS in touch with KLL
> because that would certainly help avoid a lot of beginner problems *and*
> not require English.
>
> > I would also guess that changeset comments were not
> > part of the training.
>
> Then the training is seriously lacking.
>
> > Errant keys are relatively straight-forward to
> > find and fix in JOSM. If the tag value is legitimate local knowledge
> > then a little bit of cleanup work is worth it.
>
> I don't know about the localisation status of the software. Many of the
> problems mentioned here would trigger warnings with standard editing
> software. Is it possible that these warnings are not translated and
> mappers are taught to just hit "continue" whenver there's a popup they
> don't understand?
>
> > Someone at the Nepal RC
> > who does some GIS work is aware of the data quality issues and working
> > to fix it.
>
> With that, I hope they mean they will fix the training and not fix the
> problems. They are not doing well by the local volunteers if they
> provide them with training that results in most of their edits having to
> be corrected by someone else (worst case, someone else without knowledge
> of land or language).
>
> It would be interesting to know what the aims of this programme are, and
> how many volunteers are recruited/trained to do exactly what.
>
> > Changeset comments such as "It's likely we
> > have to fully delete it because it would take days to clean everything
> > up by hand." when talking about local knowledge added by locals seems
> > against the spirit of OSM.
>
> Well it depends on just how much pre-existing data was broken. If things
> are newly added and the tagging is bad, then the worst that will happen
> is that the data rots away unused. If however existing data - that was
> presumably added by locals with local knowledge - is broken then it is
> possible that the net worth of the contribution is below zero.
>
> This is of course something that an institution training volunteers
> should not allow to happen because not only will it was the the time of
> the volunteers in question *and* others in OSM who repair the damage, it
> would also throw a bad light on the organisation itself and the way they
> plan and staff their activities.
>
> I am concerned about a changeset comment quoted by Andy in another
> message: "Stop destroying detailed map using generalization tools. In
> developing countries like Nepal eactly map can save human life." --
> while this is certainly impolite, if this is talking about the NRCS
> edits discussed here, it points to existing data being reduced in value
> by the new contributions. People don't usually say something like that
> if someone just uses a wrong tag or accidentally moves a house.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Gaurav Thapa]

Hi all,

Thank you Robert for your response. I work at KLL and we have identified a
person at Nepal Red Cross Society (NRCS). We will inform them of these
errors and get back to the larger group. The OSM Nepal community is more
active on facebook. You can reach us here to have a more immediate response
(https://www.facebook.com/groups/mapkathmandu)

Yes. addr:tole is a highly utilized tool as people refer to neighbourhoods
over political units such as wards. For day to day navigation and
identification of one's location toles are preferred over street/house
numbers.

Regards,
-- 
Gaurav Thapa
Project Manager
Secondary Cities Pokhara Project
Kathmandu Living Labs
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Robert Banick]

Hi all,

I live in Nepal, contribute to the local map and consider myself part of
the local OSM community. I would certainly be exasperated if my edits got
mangled by a training but recognize it’s all part of the learning curve. I
would trade a couple months of cleaning bad edits for a significantly
larger community here any day.

The NRCS GIS staff and KLL have a personal relationship and I expect these
matters will be discussed over the phone and/or in person, as is the
cultural preference here. Lack of action on the mailing list isn’t really
reflective of the attention being paid. Keep in mind that this is the
mailing list where MAPS.ME recently got called “#!*@.ME”. It’s not exactly
a welcoming space if you’re shy, nervous about your edits or lack
confidence in your English. This is not news of course but it always seems
to need repeating.

Finally, addr:tole refers to a locally recognized definition of place and
is a genuinely useful tag. These are historic neighborhood units that have
been eclipsed by modern political boundaries but still have important
religious and cultural functions.

Cheers,
Robert

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:43 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 21.06.2017 23:48, Dan Joseph wrote:
> > NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits
> > are part of the local community.
>
> The word "community" is used in a lot of different ways in OSM. When I
> speak of "the local community" I ususally mean "the OSM mappers who live
> there", not "anyone who lives there".
>
> I'd like to echo Pieree's question - are the NRCS in touch with KLL
> because that would certainly help avoid a lot of beginner problems *and*
> not require English.
>
> > I would also guess that changeset comments were not
> > part of the training.
>
> Then the training is seriously lacking.
>
> > Errant keys are relatively straight-forward to
> > find and fix in JOSM. If the tag value is legitimate local knowledge
> > then a little bit of cleanup work is worth it.
>
> I don't know about the localisation status of the software. Many of the
> problems mentioned here would trigger warnings with standard editing
> software. Is it possible that these warnings are not translated and
> mappers are taught to just hit "continue" whenver there's a popup they
> don't understand?
>
> > Someone at the Nepal RC
> > who does some GIS work is aware of the data quality issues and working
> > to fix it.
>
> With that, I hope they mean they will fix the training and not fix the
> problems. They are not doing well by the local volunteers if they
> provide them with training that results in most of their edits having to
> be corrected by someone else (worst case, someone else without knowledge
> of land or language).
>
> It would be interesting to know what the aims of this programme are, and
> how many volunteers are recruited/trained to do exactly what.
>
> > Changeset comments such as "It's likely we
> > have to fully delete it because it would take days to clean everything
> > up by hand." when talking about local knowledge added by locals seems
> > against the spirit of OSM.
>
> Well it depends on just how much pre-existing data was broken. If things
> are newly added and the tagging is bad, then the worst that will happen
> is that the data rots away unused. If however existing data - that was
> presumably added by locals with local knowledge - is broken then it is
> possible that the net worth of the contribution is below zero.
>
> This is of course something that an institution training volunteers
> should not allow to happen because not only will it was the the time of
> the volunteers in question *and* others in OSM who repair the damage, it
> would also throw a bad light on the organisation itself and the way they
> plan and staff their activities.
>
> I am concerned about a changeset comment quoted by Andy in another
> message: "Stop destroying detailed map using generalization tools. In
> developing countries like Nepal eactly map can save human life." --
> while this is certainly impolite, if this is talking about the NRCS
> edits discussed here, it points to existing data being reduced in value
> by the new contributions. People don't usually say something like that
> if someone just uses a wrong tag or accidentally moves a house.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 21.06.2017 23:48, Dan Joseph wrote:
> NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits
> are part of the local community.

The word "community" is used in a lot of different ways in OSM. When I
speak of "the local community" I ususally mean "the OSM mappers who live
there", not "anyone who lives there".

I'd like to echo Pieree's question - are the NRCS in touch with KLL
because that would certainly help avoid a lot of beginner problems *and*
not require English.

> I would also guess that changeset comments were not
> part of the training.

Then the training is seriously lacking.

> Errant keys are relatively straight-forward to
> find and fix in JOSM. If the tag value is legitimate local knowledge
> then a little bit of cleanup work is worth it.

I don't know about the localisation status of the software. Many of the
problems mentioned here would trigger warnings with standard editing
software. Is it possible that these warnings are not translated and
mappers are taught to just hit "continue" whenver there's a popup they
don't understand?

> Someone at the Nepal RC
> who does some GIS work is aware of the data quality issues and working
> to fix it.

With that, I hope they mean they will fix the training and not fix the
problems. They are not doing well by the local volunteers if they
provide them with training that results in most of their edits having to
be corrected by someone else (worst case, someone else without knowledge
of land or language).

It would be interesting to know what the aims of this programme are, and
how many volunteers are recruited/trained to do exactly what.

> Changeset comments such as "It's likely we
> have to fully delete it because it would take days to clean everything
> up by hand." when talking about local knowledge added by locals seems
> against the spirit of OSM.

Well it depends on just how much pre-existing data was broken. If things
are newly added and the tagging is bad, then the worst that will happen
is that the data rots away unused. If however existing data - that was
presumably added by locals with local knowledge - is broken then it is
possible that the net worth of the contribution is below zero.

This is of course something that an institution training volunteers
should not allow to happen because not only will it was the the time of
the volunteers in question *and* others in OSM who repair the damage, it
would also throw a bad light on the organisation itself and the way they
plan and staff their activities.

I am concerned about a changeset comment quoted by Andy in another
message: "Stop destroying detailed map using generalization tools. In
developing countries like Nepal eactly map can save human life." --
while this is certainly impolite, if this is talking about the NRCS
edits discussed here, it points to existing data being reduced in value
by the new contributions. People don't usually say something like that
if someone just uses a wrong tag or accidentally moves a house.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Andy Mabbett]

On 21 June 2017 at 22:48, Dan Joseph  wrote:

> NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits are
> part of the local community. The mappers would be local volunteers and may
> not be comfortable responding to changeset comments that are written in
> English

Thank you, Dan, for making these and your other points so cogently.

Comments like:

Stop destroying detailed map using generalization tools. In
developing countries like Nepal eactly map can save human life.

beggar belief. Perhaps whoever left that should themselves be warned to desist.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Pierre Béland]

Hi Dan
I agree with you that we have to be careful to be cordial in the messages we 
write on notes. Yes, this is not easy for new contributors to respond to the 
notes, especially if they mainly contribute through smartphones. And 
contributors should be careful in the messages they add on notes.

But the organizers should assure the interaction with the OSM community and 
assure we can trace easily these edits for eventual corrections. if the edit 
comment always contain a hashtag or a word such as nrcs, it should be easy to 
trace the various edits.

Is Kathmandu Living Labs in the loop? They are quite experienced and could help 
on this. 
  
Pierre 


  De : Dan Joseph 
 À : talk@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : mercredi 21 juin 2017 17h51
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in 
Nepal
   
Hi,NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits are 
part of the local community. The mappers would be local volunteers and may not 
be comfortable responding to changeset comments that are written in English. I 
would also guess that changeset comments were not part of the training. Errant 
keys are relatively straight-forward to find and fix in JOSM. If the tag value 
is legitimate local knowledge then a little bit of cleanup work is worth it. 
Someone at the Nepal RC who does some GIS work is aware of the data quality 
issues and working to fix it. Training people who have access to smart-phones 
and computers and who regularly use map services can be a challenge. Training 
people who don’t have such access is even more of a challenge. The time before 
every edit is perfectly in line with the established OSM guidelines is bound to 
be a bit longer. Changeset comments such as "It's likely we have to fully 
delete it because it would take days to clean everything up by hand." when 
talking about local knowledge added by locals seems against the spirit of 
OSM.All the best,
Dan
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Jan Michel  wrote:

Hi,
I wrote some changeset comments as well as Michałs. None of the was answered up 
to now, despite many new edits have been made by the users.

It's not just single mistakes, but they accumulate to a substantial amount of 
data, here's just a small excerpt of what I found:

Key     Occurences
addr:tole    127
Addr:city    19
addr: opening time    28
addr: place    24
Addr:place    35
godawari municipality    34

New keys are "invented" every day. I think something should be done soon as 
cleaning this up is quite some effort. I wonder if there is somebody from the 
local community available to help?

Jan



On 18.06.2017 23:42, Andrew Hain wrote:

Have you tried politely making changeset comments asking this?

--
Andrew
-- -- 
*From:* Michał Brzozowski 
*Sent:* 18 June 2017 21:32:16
*To:* talk@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in 
Nepal
There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
(lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
OSM training"
If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise required.
The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.



Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
take corrective action?

Michał



__ _
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.or g/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


   ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Dan Joseph]

Hi,
NRCS stands for Nepal Red Cross Society, so the people behind the edits are
part of the local community. The mappers would be local volunteers and may
not be comfortable responding to changeset comments that are written in
English. I would also guess that changeset comments were not part of the
training. Errant keys are relatively straight-forward to find and fix in
JOSM. If the tag value is legitimate local knowledge then a little bit of
cleanup work is worth it. Someone at the Nepal RC who does some GIS work is
aware of the data quality issues and working to fix it. Training people who
have access to smart-phones and computers and who regularly use map
services can be a challenge. Training people who don’t have such access is
even more of a challenge. The time before every edit is perfectly in line
with the established OSM guidelines is bound to be a bit longer. Changeset
comments such as "It's likely we have to fully delete it because it would
take days to clean everything up by hand." when talking about local
knowledge added by locals seems against the spirit of OSM.
All the best,
Dan

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Jan Michel  wrote:

> Hi,
> I wrote some changeset comments as well as Michałs. None of the was
> answered up to now, despite many new edits have been made by the users.
>
> It's not just single mistakes, but they accumulate to a substantial amount
> of data, here's just a small excerpt of what I found:
>
> Key Occurences
> addr:tole127
> Addr:city19
> addr: opening time28
> addr: place24
> Addr:place35
> godawari municipality34
>
> New keys are "invented" every day. I think something should be done soon
> as cleaning this up is quite some effort. I wonder if there is somebody
> from the local community available to help?
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> On 18.06.2017 23:42, Andrew Hain wrote:
>
>> Have you tried politely making changeset comments asking this?
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> --------------------
>> *From:* Michał Brzozowski 
>> *Sent:* 18 June 2017 21:32:16
>> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets
>> in Nepal
>> There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
>> (lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
>> Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
>> OSM training"
>> If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise
>> required.
>> The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
>> namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.
>>
>
> Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
>> take corrective action?
>>
>> Michał
>>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Jan Michel]

Hi,
I wrote some changeset comments as well as Michałs. None of the was 
answered up to now, despite many new edits have been made by the users.


It's not just single mistakes, but they accumulate to a substantial 
amount of data, here's just a small excerpt of what I found:


Key Occurences
addr:tole127
Addr:city19
addr: opening time28
addr: place24
Addr:place35
godawari municipality34

New keys are "invented" every day. I think something should be done soon 
as cleaning this up is quite some effort. I wonder if there is somebody 
from the local community available to help?


Jan



On 18.06.2017 23:42, Andrew Hain wrote:

Have you tried politely making changeset comments asking this?

--
Andrew

*From:* Michał Brzozowski 
*Sent:* 18 June 2017 21:32:16
*To:* talk@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets 
in Nepal

There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
(lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
OSM training"
If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise 
required.

The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.



Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
take corrective action?

Michał



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Andy Townsend]

On 18/06/2017 22:42, Andrew Hain wrote:

Have you tried politely making changeset comments asking this?


(just in case anyone's unaware that it exists)

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions?c=Nepal#8/27.529/86.310

shows this week's changeset discussion comments centred on Nepal.

Best Regards,

Andy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Andrew Hain]

Have you tried politely making changeset comments asking this?

--
Andrew

From: Michał Brzozowski 
Sent: 18 June 2017 21:32:16
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
(lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
OSM training"
If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise required.
The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.

Example changesets:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49631971
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49627019

You can see all of them around Nepal in WHODIDIT, I discovered half a
dozen of users, there may be more. They have quite high edit volume
and most of their edits need attention.

http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/index.html?zoom=13&lat=27.63347&lon=85.3243&layers=BTT

Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
take corrective action?

Michał

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Michał Brzozowski]

There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
(lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
OSM training"
If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise required.
The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.

Example changesets:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49631971
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49627019

You can see all of them around Nepal in WHODIDIT, I discovered half a
dozen of users, there may be more. They have quite high edit volume
and most of their edits need attention.

http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/index.html?zoom=13&lat=27.63347&lon=85.3243&layers=BTT

Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
take corrective action?

Michał

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk