Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
I see that Maning has already replied, but I would like to emphasise that the Philippine OSM community is a very mature example of informal but cohesive collaborative work at a national and regional level with a long history of working with other organisations, such as universities and local government. Good luck with the initiative. Mike On 2019-08-12 11:07, Peter Barth wrote: Hi Eugene, Eugene Alvin Villar schrieb: Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and was not initiated from Facebook's side. who is this "we"/"our", how many people were directly involved in this communication? I am a bit worried about your definition of "local community". If this initiative was driven by the local community, as you say, why is it only recently announced on the talk-ph mailing list? Also, for everyone, especially the local community to follow up, you could just put the direct messages to the wiki for documentation. Thanks, Peda ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hi y'all, Putting on record that I was part of those who requested FB to generate road detection for the Philippines there are a few more people involved. I defer to these individuals if they want to put forward their names. While I agree that a few people does not necessarily represent the whole local community, I believe those we talked to initially were the most active both in mapping and community-building in the Philippines. As mentioned in the announcement, organized mapping effort will only be initiated if there are local groups (local in the geographic region they want to map) willing to manage and coordinate. However, individual mappers who want to use existing detections provided by FB can directly map their own mapping patches via RapiD. On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:13 PM Peter Barth wrote: > > Hi Eugene, > > Eugene Alvin Villar schrieb: > > Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with > > Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and > > was not initiated from Facebook's side. > > who is this "we"/"our", how many people were directly involved in this > communication? > > I am a bit worried about your definition of "local community". If this > initiative was driven by the local community, as you say, why is it only > recently announced on the talk-ph mailing list? > > Also, for everyone, especially the local community to follow up, you > could just put the direct messages to the wiki for documentation. > > Thanks, > Peda > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden https://github.com/maning http://twitter.com/maningsambale -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hi Eugene, Eugene Alvin Villar schrieb: > Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with > Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and > was not initiated from Facebook's side. who is this "we"/"our", how many people were directly involved in this communication? I am a bit worried about your definition of "local community". If this initiative was driven by the local community, as you say, why is it only recently announced on the talk-ph mailing list? Also, for everyone, especially the local community to follow up, you could just put the direct messages to the wiki for documentation. Thanks, Peda ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hi Marc, On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 7:36 PM marc marc wrote: > could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that > solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents > a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues > (about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from > the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to > me not to repeat this error > Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and was not initiated from Facebook's side. I completely understand your concern regarding Facebook's actions especially with the problems and issues encountered by the local mapping community in Thailand. As such, we stipulated with Facebook that any mapping in the Philippines will only be done by local mappers and not by Facebook's map team. Cheers, Eugene ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hi Frederik, On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 5:55 PM Frederik Ramm wrote: > do I understand correctly that you and your local partners aim to > recruit new mappers to OSM, who will not learn the "old fashioned" > workflow of tracing stuff from imagery by hand, but be mainly taught to > work with pre-processed Facebook road data? > Not at all. We have no plans to teach new contributors to *only* contribute using the RapiD editor or using FB-provided data. We simply want to incorporate these road-detections as an optional complement to the trainings and workshops that we have been conducting over the past decade. > How will you ensure that your partners give those new mappers a training > that is good enough to know when to *not* trust the pre-processed AI > data? All too often people automatically assume that "the computer is > always right", and this would be especially the case in a mapathon setup > where time is limited. Will local new recruits be taught to amend the > raw machine-generated data with their own knowledge, like street names, > road classification, surface...? > We are all too aware of the limitations of AI/ML-derived data and so we plan to stress that AI is not infallible and to always use one's best judgement. We will provide examples of false positives and false negatives to show that the data still needs human judgement. > [...] How will you ensure that you do not generate more contributions than > you can ensure the quality for? > We have already browsed through the road-detections data provided by Facebook and based on our assessment, most of the country's roads have actually already been mapped. So we are pretty confident that the local community can properly review/validate contributions and that we won't be overwhelmed. We also plan to use the tasks-assisted instance of the HOT Tasking Manager to coordinate mapping and validation. We have done a pilot of mapping using RapiD with a small province as a test[1] and we think this process is feasible. In addition, we do not plan to initiate wholesale mapping of the country with Facebook's AI-derived data. Our plan is to wait for local mappers, local government units, or organizations to contact us if they want to help complete the road network their local area. Only then will we create tasks and provide trainings or workshops in case they need it. [1] https://tasks-assisted.hotosm.org/project/9 Cheers, Eugene ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hello, > The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues (about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to me not to repeat this error Regars, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Eugene, do I understand correctly that you and your local partners aim to recruit new mappers to OSM, who will not learn the "old fashioned" workflow of tracing stuff from imagery by hand, but be mainly taught to work with pre-processed Facebook road data? How will you ensure that your partners give those new mappers a training that is good enough to know when to *not* trust the pre-processed AI data? All too often people automatically assume that "the computer is always right", and this would be especially the case in a mapathon setup where time is limited. Will local new recruits be taught to amend the raw machine-generated data with their own knowledge, like street names, road classification, surface...? I think that while it is good to have quality measures in place, recent experience with mapathons of all sorts have shown that quality assurance for newbie-contributed stuff takes approximately as many person-hours as contributing the stuff in the first place. How will you ensure that you do not generate more contributions than you can ensure the quality for? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hello! The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines are pleased to announce an initiative to use AI or machine learning (ML)-derived data to help improve the coverage of OpenStreetMap in the Philippines and we are calling it Tabang-AI. This is word play on the Cebuano word *tábangay* which means "collaboration" or "teamwork". We believe that AI and ML, when used properly, and always with local mappers leading the effort, is a fruitful complement to conventional forms of mapping in OSM. One of the first projects under this initiative is related to the AI road detection technology developed by Facebook under their Map With AI service ( https://mapwith.ai/). We requested Facebook to run their machine learning models in the Philippines and they have provided the detected road data through their RapiD editor. Together with various local partners (LGUs, NGOs, etc.) that we have forged from the recent Pista ng Mapa conference[1] in Dumaguete, we plan to promote baseline road mapping throughout the country to further increase data coverage. This will be implemented in several phases to ensure that the data added to OSM conforms to the defined quality standards outlined by the local community. You can read more about this Tabang-AI initiative on the OSM Wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Tabang-AI If you are in the Philippines and want to start coordinating map tasks within your community, please feel free to reply to this email, or sent a private message to osm.pilipinas+aimappingrequ...@gmail.com or create a GitHub ticket here: https://github.com/OSMPH/Tabang-AI/issues/new [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/GOwin/diary/390452 Regards, Eugene ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
