Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[Simon Poole]

I assume everybody saw my talk yesterday :-).

Seriously, even if you don't expose geometry to the end user your editor
needs to be geometry-aware (that means have at least internal access to
all variants of how the object of interest can be modeled in OSM) and
make the user aware of the presence of nearby objects.

As I pointed out in the talk, building a simple editor is hard. So hard
that we've not managed to actually develop one on any platform to date.
And there are number of things in OSM that actually work against that
(freeform tagging, complicated tagging schemes, different interpretation
of the schemes in the preset systems and so on).

Simon

On 26.09.2016 15:10, john whelan wrote:
> >From evidence of the edits I'm still to be convinced as to the usefulness
> of these smart phone devices. Often inaccurate & unclear (Navmii) or
> unable to recognise entities mapped as polygons & limit presets.
> (MAPS.ME  & others)
>
> A _very_ experienced mapper recently added POIs to places already
> mapped as closed ways:
> "I was testing out MAPS.ME  yesterday while out and
> about. But it's a bit limiting. Clearly I needed a shop=tea preset for
> example!"
>
> That is very much in my mind, buildings mapped as a way do not show up
> in OSMand for example for adding tags only POIs are available.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 26 September 2016 at 08:59, Dave F  > wrote:
>
>
> On 25/09/2016 19:11, john whelan wrote:
>
> OSMand and POI editing springs to mind...
>
>
> From evidence of the edits I'm still to be convinced as to the
> usefulness of these smart phone devices. Often inaccurate &
> unclear (Navmii) or unable to recognise entities mapped as
> polygons & limit presets. (MAPS.ME  & others)
>
> A _very_ experienced mapper recently added POIs to places already
> mapped as closed ways:
> "I was testing out MAPS.ME  yesterday while out
> and about. But it's a bit limiting. Clearly I needed a shop=tea
> preset for example!"
>
> Dave F. (Walking boots/bike, GPS, Camera, Pub)
>
>
>
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> 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[john whelan]

>From evidence of the edits I'm still to be convinced as to the usefulness
of these smart phone devices. Often inaccurate & unclear (Navmii) or unable
to recognise entities mapped as polygons & limit presets. (MAPS.ME & others)

A _very_ experienced mapper recently added POIs to places already mapped as
closed ways:
"I was testing out MAPS.ME yesterday while out and about. But it's a bit
limiting. Clearly I needed a shop=tea preset for example!"

That is very much in my mind, buildings mapped as a way do not show up in
OSMand for example for adding tags only POIs are available.

Cheerio John

On 26 September 2016 at 08:59, Dave F  wrote:

>
> On 25/09/2016 19:11, john whelan wrote:
>
>> OSMand and POI editing springs to mind...
>>
>
> From evidence of the edits I'm still to be convinced as to the usefulness
> of these smart phone devices. Often inaccurate & unclear (Navmii) or unable
> to recognise entities mapped as polygons & limit presets. (MAPS.ME &
> others)
>
> A _very_ experienced mapper recently added POIs to places already mapped
> as closed ways:
> "I was testing out MAPS.ME yesterday while out and about. But it's a bit
> limiting. Clearly I needed a shop=tea preset for example!"
>
> Dave F. (Walking boots/bike, GPS, Camera, Pub)
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[Dave F]

On 25/09/2016 19:11, john whelan wrote:

OSMand and POI editing springs to mind...


From evidence of the edits I'm still to be convinced as to the 
usefulness of these smart phone devices. Often inaccurate & unclear 
(Navmii) or unable to recognise entities mapped as polygons & limit 
presets. (MAPS.ME & others)


A _very_ experienced mapper recently added POIs to places already mapped 
as closed ways:
"I was testing out MAPS.ME yesterday while out and about. But it's a bit 
limiting. Clearly I needed a shop=tea preset for example!"


Dave F. (Walking boots/bike, GPS, Camera, Pub)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 25.09.16 20:11, john whelan wrote:


If we go back in time OSM started with people cycling round carrying a 
GPS tracker device and photographing street signs.


Now we have other ways of collecting data and to be honest often it's 
a matter of ensuring what we have in the map is up to date.


Imagery is fine as far as it goes but it falls down on details such as 
does this building have a cafe with WiFi available?


HOT is one of the players here, they have volunteers mapping from 
imagery but having details added to the map from mappers on the ground 
makes the map richer and more useful to others as well as HOT and the 
NGOs.


Locally I try to remember these sort of details and enter them in JOSM 
when I get home but what sort of other methods are there available?


OSMand and POI editing springs to mind, JOSM on a tablet or laptop.  I 
don't think iD would work unless it was burning up data on a phone 
plan or in a WiFi area.


Walking papers sounds interesting, but could we produce a custom map 
that shows just the highways and say buildings we'd like tagged?


Vescuppi would work but again if we are to make of use the 
crowdsourcing techniques in some ways pioneered by HOT of maperthons 
and iD we need something simple and a way to focus in on those 
elements that we'd like extra tags on or need verifying because they 
are more than say five years old.  I'm thinking of cafes with WiFi here.


Thoughts?

Thanks John



Hi John,

It is possible to add a /wikipedia, wikimedia-commons, wikidata /[1] to 
provide a reference to an article in Wikipedia, Wikimedia, or Wikidata 
about the feature on the OSM map. Wikimedia accepts now HD video files 
up to 5 GB, as it built a new data center.


So what we can do is to film a short documentary about a feature using 
both aerial and ground footage, upload it to a respective Wikimedia 
page, then add reference of a video a Wikidata and Wikipedia page, and 
finally add /wikidata/ and legacy /wikipedia & wikimedia-commons /to the 
OSM map. I provide some examples of such my videos [2]. If there is no 
time to film and edit a video it could be just oblique low-altitude 
aerial & ground images [3].


It could be not only a video about a building, but about an area, say a 
lake [4].


It became much easier to film such videos as there are nowadays readily 
available aerial and ground cameras with an active gimbal stabilization. 
Besides weather forecasts also became more accurate, so it is possible 
now to plan a filming expeditions in advance.


Having a aerial & ground footage of an object one can add 
/building:levels/, /height/, /leaf_type/, /amenity=parking/, and other 
information for the whole adjacent area.


We can expect that in future the resolution of aerial cameras will 
became even higher. The same about an UAV range and reliability.


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi_fortress
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyon_Castle

[3] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C3%A8ge_Madame_de_Sta%C3%ABl
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Coll%C3%A8ge_Madame_de_Sta%C3%ABl

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac_des_Rousses

Best regards,
Oleksiy



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Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[Svavar Kjarrval]

Personally I prefer to take GPS tagged photographs when trying to
pinpoint something outside. However, this method doesn't (reliably) work
everywhere (e.g. in urban canyons). When the signal is too weak for a
GPS fix or non-existent, there are other methods to resort to. For
example specialised apps, maps.me, create an OSM note in OsmAnd, or
produce a rough drawing of the area; although I really try to avoid the
last one.

In your specific example, maps.me should be able to toggle the wifi
availability at specific POIs, including cafés.

- Svavar Kjarrval

On sun 25.sep 2016 18:11, john whelan wrote:
>
> If we go back in time OSM started with people cycling round carrying a
> GPS tracker device and photographing street signs.
>
> Now we have other ways of collecting data and to be honest often it's
> a matter of ensuring what we have in the map is up to date.
>
> Imagery is fine as far as it goes but it falls down on details such as
> does this building have a cafe with WiFi available?
>
> HOT is one of the players here, they have volunteers mapping from
> imagery but having details added to the map from mappers on the ground
> makes the map richer and more useful to others as well as HOT and the
> NGOs.
>
> Locally I try to remember these sort of details and enter them in JOSM
> when I get home but what sort of other methods are there available?
>
> OSMand and POI editing springs to mind, JOSM on a tablet or laptop.  I
> don't think iD would work unless it was burning up data on a phone
> plan or in a WiFi area.
>
> Walking papers sounds interesting, but could we produce a custom map
> that shows just the highways and say buildings we'd like tagged?
>
> Vescuppi would work but again if we are to make of use the
> crowdsourcing techniques in some ways pioneered by HOT of maperthons
> and iD we need something simple and a way to focus in on those
> elements that we'd like extra tags on or need verifying because they
> are more than say five years old.  I'm thinking of cafes with WiFi here.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks John
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 set 2016, alle ore 20:11, john whelan  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Vescuppi would work but again if we are to make of use the crowdsourcing 
> techniques in some ways pioneered by HOT of maperthons and iD we need 
> something simple and a way to focus in on those elements that we'd like extra 
> tags on or need verifying because they are more than say five years old.  I'm 
> thinking of cafes with WiFi here.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 


there are some pretty decent mobile editors for the major platforms around, on 
ios there's Go Map!! with great offline capabilities as well as nice online 
editing. Being able to map in the field is great for adding details, less for 
drawing a lot though.

Cheers,
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[OSM-talk] Filling in the gaps in the map with crowdsourcing techniques

[john whelan]

If we go back in time OSM started with people cycling round carrying a GPS
tracker device and photographing street signs.

Now we have other ways of collecting data and to be honest often it's a
matter of ensuring what we have in the map is up to date.

Imagery is fine as far as it goes but it falls down on details such as does
this building have a cafe with WiFi available?

HOT is one of the players here, they have volunteers mapping from imagery
but having details added to the map from mappers on the ground makes the
map richer and more useful to others as well as HOT and the NGOs.

Locally I try to remember these sort of details and enter them in JOSM when
I get home but what sort of other methods are there available?

OSMand and POI editing springs to mind, JOSM on a tablet or laptop.  I
don't think iD would work unless it was burning up data on a phone plan or
in a WiFi area.

Walking papers sounds interesting, but could we produce a custom map that
shows just the highways and say buildings we'd like tagged?

Vescuppi would work but again if we are to make of use the crowdsourcing
techniques in some ways pioneered by HOT of maperthons and iD we need
something simple and a way to focus in on those elements that we'd like
extra tags on or need verifying because they are more than say five years
old.  I'm thinking of cafes with WiFi here.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
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