Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Thanks Henk, @List, On 06.04.2014 20:08, Henk Hoff wrote: [...] More information will become available later this month. I would really love to come to SotM14. Nothing booked yet, but a huge mark in my calender is reminding me constantly to check travel prices. If chances of cancellation arise I would very appreciate if people would keep informed. Fingers crossed, knock on wood for a excellent SotM14. Lars ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Hello everyone. I've read previous messages of this thread and as coordinator of the local organizing committee i can understand your concern about SotM status. This is the first event that we organize as a community in Argentina, because previous meetings have taken place in more informal context. In South America we don't have the same number of communities and members that exist today in Europe or in the United States, we still much to do, learn and grow and we're convinced that the realization of an event like State of the Map will be one of the first steps to build a community through the common work. Because the above, is reasonable to expect that the effort is greater because it not only involves the organization of a conference, but also require to build a working group on the basis of a community that never worked for an aim like that until today. We've been talking with Henk about doing the conference here since last year, even before Birmingham was announced as host, but we understood that it was necessary to prepare well for this purpose, with more time than it would take elsewhere. IIn fact, most of those that are members of the local organizing committee joined when Buenos Aires was announced as the next host. For our luck, Henk has fully cooperated with us from the begining so we are grateful. Currently our committee consists of 18 people, and we are doing our best to make a conference that include all the necessary with a minimal budget, because our aim is to contribute to the objectives of the Foundation even economically. We've not yet announced prices, location and other details because since last year Buenos Aires has many scheduled activities which makes it difficult to achieve the necessary with a minimum cost or even free. At the moment we have the logo, which has already been uploaded to the SotM's official twitter account and currently we're working on the website development. I know that some of you have organized previous SOTM so your experience may be very useful. We are open to all contributions, suggestions and inquiries you may have. Hoping to have cleared some of their concerns, I greet you. See you soon, Gonzalo G. Perez ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Hi all, On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:57:09PM -0700, Steve Coast wrote: Why don’t we focus on the substance raised, [...] Indeed. I believe the topic of this thread was the currernt state of planning of SOTM 2014. It would be great if somebody directly involved in the organization of the conference could give a short statement about the state of things. Otherwise, if there are general concerns over the mission and organization of OSMF or the current behaviour of the board, please open a new thread with a new topic, preferably on osmf-talk@ which is better suited for this kind of discussion. Thank you kindly Sarah ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Hello all, In short: SotM14 in Buenos Aires is still scheduled for November 7th-9th. The local team have been busy getting the basics in place and they are proud to host the international OSM conference in Latin America. I hope that many of you are still planning to attend the first SotM in the southern hemisphere. More information will become available later this month. Cheers, Henk On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 11:06 PM, wn reader wnrea...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, since the release there is no new information. There are no application forms, only slightly from last year. Did I consider great if there really will be a SOTM. The arrival is causing great cost, so a rejection in the next few months would be very detrimental to all. But I would appreciate more if the organizations could allay my concerns. Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. the truth, as always, is more prosaic: back in September 2013, the SOTM working group reported The time of one state of the map (and therefore all the sponsors) is over, so we need to think about the role in the conference(s) in funding the operations of the OSMF and server system. Previously it has been our main annual source of income. [2]. as a result, other funding options were explored, and the board minuted The OSMF funding model for 2014 and beyond is based on a combined model OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. [3] in response. the suggestion that the SOTM working group members are not motivated is a new one to me. the last report from SOTM working group itself [4] did not say anything of the sort. if any of them are reading this and are feeling unable to continue, then - please! - let us know. i'm sure alternative plans can be made, and i understand how hard it is to push through to finishing something which has sapped all of your energy (see the license change saga). so, did OSMF reduce the profitability of SOTM - no. did OSMF reduce the motivation of SOTM organisers - no. i, also, hope that SOTM happens, and i hope it is very successful. OSMF working groups are made up of members of the community - like yourself - and if you feel strongly about some issues then i urge you to offer your assistance to a working group, or join one. the OSMF board is democratically elected and, although it's a lot of work, you might consider running at the next AGM (iirc, at SOTM14). cheers, matt (opinions above are solely my own except for quotations drawn from the sources below) [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2007-March/000217.html [2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EZHwUhWoRJ__DzmIW-FgzEKktji9AZQ1K_UDFx_PXrc/pub [3] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 [4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LVGogPGbFT88bfNY1MpK5PRZA9qi1Ys6QFz0Cl7OYcY/pub ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
On Apr 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. Matt, Steve was merely expressing his doubt that the conference would come together. He cast no aspersions on the Board that I could see and just described the landscape of conferences as he sees it. Suggesting that this is somehow a conspiracy theory is a stretch, and seems like you're just looking for an excuse to dump on Steve. Feel free to respectfully disagree with Steve, me, or anyone on these threads, but calling someone hypocritical is unkind and unproductive. Everyone-- please keep all comments on these mailing lists respectful of all of your fellow community members. They are one of our main communication channels and if they aren't a safe space for collaboration and discussion then we're depriving ourselves of our greatest asset: each other. Kathleen the truth, as always, is more prosaic: back in September 2013, the SOTM working group reported The time of one state of the map (and therefore all the sponsors) is over, so we need to think about the role in the conference(s) in funding the operations of the OSMF and server system. Previously it has been our main annual source of income. [2]. as a result, other funding options were explored, and the board minuted The OSMF funding model for 2014 and beyond is based on a combined model OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. [3] in response. the suggestion that the SOTM working group members are not motivated is a new one to me. the last report from SOTM working group itself [4] did not say anything of the sort. if any of them are reading this and are feeling unable to continue, then - please! - let us know. i'm sure alternative plans can be made, and i understand how hard it is to push through to finishing something which has sapped all of your energy (see the license change saga). so, did OSMF reduce the profitability of SOTM - no. did OSMF reduce the motivation of SOTM organisers - no. i, also, hope that SOTM happens, and i hope it is very successful. OSMF working groups are made up of members of the community - like yourself - and if you feel strongly about some issues then i urge you to offer your assistance to a working group, or join one. the OSMF board is democratically elected and, although it's a lot of work, you might consider running at the next AGM (iirc, at SOTM14). cheers, matt (opinions above are solely my own except for quotations drawn from the sources below) [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2007-March/000217.html [2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EZHwUhWoRJ__DzmIW-FgzEKktji9AZQ1K_UDFx_PXrc/pub [3] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 [4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LVGogPGbFT88bfNY1MpK5PRZA9qi1Ys6QFz0Cl7OYcY/pub ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Exactly, thanks Kathleen. The OSMF has decided to not do anything this year; it hasn’t even met face to face like we did every other year to thrash through issues and plan things. I’m not entirely sure if this is good or bad. My gut feeling is that pushing everything possible down to working groups etc is a mistake, but maybe I’m wrong. What I see is what the more functional OSMF US is able to achieve with fewer resources. Those guys are inspirational and should be a model for us. I get to see it a little more up close since I work with Martijn than perhaps most people do; they manage to organize regular meetings and build things while the OSMF board decides which open source telephony solution is ideal. Steve PS I’m not lumping in sysadmin or development with the OSMF here, they’ve always run their own show or been ad-hoc, and it appears work with the occasional massive outside investment (e.g. iD) On Apr 5, 2014, at 7:11 AM, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. Matt, Steve was merely expressing his doubt that the conference would come together. He cast no aspersions on the Board that I could see and just described the landscape of conferences as he sees it. Suggesting that this is somehow a conspiracy theory is a stretch, and seems like you're just looking for an excuse to dump on Steve. Feel free to respectfully disagree with Steve, me, or anyone on these threads, but calling someone hypocritical is unkind and unproductive. Everyone-- please keep all comments on these mailing lists respectful of all of your fellow community members. They are one of our main communication channels and if they aren't a safe space for collaboration and discussion then we're depriving ourselves of our greatest asset: each other. Kathleen the truth, as always, is more prosaic: back in September 2013, the SOTM working group reported The time of one state of the map (and therefore all the sponsors) is over, so we need to think about the role in the conference(s) in funding the operations of the OSMF and server system. Previously it has been our main annual source of income. [2]. as a result, other funding options were explored, and the board minuted The OSMF funding model for 2014 and beyond is based on a combined model OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. [3] in response. the suggestion that the SOTM working group members are not motivated is a new one to me. the last report from SOTM working group itself [4] did not say anything of the sort. if any of them are reading this and are feeling unable to continue, then - please! - let us know. i'm sure alternative plans can be made, and i understand how hard it is to push through to finishing something which has sapped all of your energy (see the license change saga). so, did OSMF reduce the profitability of SOTM - no. did OSMF reduce the motivation of SOTM organisers - no. i, also, hope that SOTM happens, and i hope it is very successful. OSMF working groups are made up of members of the community - like yourself - and if you feel strongly about some issues then i urge you to offer your assistance to a working group, or join one. the OSMF board is democratically elected and, although it's a lot of work, you might consider running at the next AGM (iirc, at SOTM14). cheers, matt (opinions above are solely my own except for quotations drawn from the sources below) [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2007-March/000217.html [2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EZHwUhWoRJ__DzmIW-FgzEKktji9AZQ1K_UDFx_PXrc/pub [3] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 [4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LVGogPGbFT88bfNY1MpK5PRZA9qi1Ys6QFz0Cl7OYcY/pub ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
I hasten to add - I’m not sure by “decision” this was a minuted formal resolution to scale everything back, but it’s certainly the observable result of the new opinions on the board. Steve On Apr 5, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Exactly, thanks Kathleen. The OSMF has decided to not do anything this year; it hasn’t even met face to face like we did every other year to thrash through issues and plan things. I’m not entirely sure if this is good or bad. My gut feeling is that pushing everything possible down to working groups etc is a mistake, but maybe I’m wrong. What I see is what the more functional OSMF US is able to achieve with fewer resources. Those guys are inspirational and should be a model for us. I get to see it a little more up close since I work with Martijn than perhaps most people do; they manage to organize regular meetings and build things while the OSMF board decides which open source telephony solution is ideal. Steve PS I’m not lumping in sysadmin or development with the OSMF here, they’ve always run their own show or been ad-hoc, and it appears work with the occasional massive outside investment (e.g. iD) On Apr 5, 2014, at 7:11 AM, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. Matt, Steve was merely expressing his doubt that the conference would come together. He cast no aspersions on the Board that I could see and just described the landscape of conferences as he sees it. Suggesting that this is somehow a conspiracy theory is a stretch, and seems like you're just looking for an excuse to dump on Steve. Feel free to respectfully disagree with Steve, me, or anyone on these threads, but calling someone hypocritical is unkind and unproductive. Everyone-- please keep all comments on these mailing lists respectful of all of your fellow community members. They are one of our main communication channels and if they aren't a safe space for collaboration and discussion then we're depriving ourselves of our greatest asset: each other. Kathleen the truth, as always, is more prosaic: back in September 2013, the SOTM working group reported The time of one state of the map (and therefore all the sponsors) is over, so we need to think about the role in the conference(s) in funding the operations of the OSMF and server system. Previously it has been our main annual source of income. [2]. as a result, other funding options were explored, and the board minuted The OSMF funding model for 2014 and beyond is based on a combined model OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. [3] in response. the suggestion that the SOTM working group members are not motivated is a new one to me. the last report from SOTM working group itself [4] did not say anything of the sort. if any of them are reading this and are feeling unable to continue, then - please! - let us know. i'm sure alternative plans can be made, and i understand how hard it is to push through to finishing something which has sapped all of your energy (see the license change saga). so, did OSMF reduce the profitability of SOTM - no. did OSMF reduce the motivation of SOTM organisers - no. i, also, hope that SOTM happens, and i hope it is very successful. OSMF working groups are made up of members of the community - like yourself - and if you feel strongly about some issues then i urge you to offer your assistance to a working group, or join one. the OSMF board is democratically elected and, although it's a lot of work, you might consider running at the next AGM (iirc, at SOTM14). cheers, matt (opinions above are solely my own except for quotations drawn from the sources below) [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2007-March/000217.html [2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EZHwUhWoRJ__DzmIW-FgzEKktji9AZQ1K_UDFx_PXrc/pub [3] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 [4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LVGogPGbFT88bfNY1MpK5PRZA9qi1Ys6QFz0Cl7OYcY/pub ___ talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
The OSMF key functions are available online [1] and they're very bare bones - the OSMF is hands off*. The two biggest points that relate to SOTM are: - Provides a vehicle for fund-raising to support the project. The foundation can accept donations for the OpenStreetMap Project and allocate those donations to OpenStreetMap Project activities. - Organizes the annual conference, State-of-the-map Based on the observations of last years SOTM (which I helped organise) the main comments that were fed back to the board were that (1) relying on SOTM to provide all the funding OSMF requires over the duration of a year is no longer guaranteed, and (2) the SotM Working Group, and in particular the local team based in the host city, felt that finding sponsorship should be a task that is more suited to the OSMF and the SOTM remote team (i.e. the regulars). The OSMF have taken these comments on board. Please remember that SOTM 2014 is 2 months later than last year and as such there is LOTS of time. We're ahead of last years schedule. In fact one of the other comments we fed back last year was that there was a calendar clash with SOTM US (the Call for Presentations fell during SOTM US). This year we won't have that problem. I would expect there will be more announcements post SOTM FR and SOTM US. Best regards, Rob [1] https://blog.openstreetmap.org/about/ * If anyone would like the OSMF to expand their role then they can put themselves forward for election. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. Matt, Steve was merely expressing his doubt that the conference would come together. He cast no aspersions on the Board that I could see and just described the landscape of conferences as he sees it. okay. i read it very differently, where OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body is very much an aspersion, although an oblique one. in follow-up emails, i definitely take the OSMF has decided to not do anything this year and ... while the OSMF board decides which open source telephony solution is ideal as aspersions, as in [1], where Steve seems to be trivialising the OSMF board, or falsely representing the views of its members. Suggesting that this is somehow a conspiracy theory is a stretch, and seems like you're just looking for an excuse to dump on Steve. i'm sorry it seems that way. perhaps a bit more background would have been in order, but i was trying to keep the length of the email under 'essay' length. i remember very well when Steve himself was the target of such aspersions, as i was trying to point out, and as in [2]. therefore it is saddening to me that the difficult experiences he had, both before the OSMF board and on it, don't appear to prevent him from creating difficult experiences for the current board. Feel free to respectfully disagree with Steve, me, or anyone on these threads, but calling someone hypocritical is unkind and unproductive. i apologise profoundly for any offence that i caused Steve. i was trying to find a word to adequately express the dichotomy between rightly criticising those who are seem to be negative towards the board while in office and seeming to be negative towards the board when not. in any case, it is the action, not the person, that i was trying to call out. as to being productive - i think is important to say that getting involved in OSMF is the most productive way to effect change. casting oblique aspersions is not only negative, but likely to attract more negative responses. perhaps i should have heeded Steve's advice to prospective board members: ... the main thing you should be prepared for isn't so much the time commitment but the fact that it's a thankless task. You will have to make choices between two equally bad options and take the flak for it. [3] i just didn't think, when i was discussing my candidacy with him before the 2011 AGM, that so much of the flak would be coming from him. cheers, matt [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2012-October/001858.html [2] NOTE: i include this because it emphatically demonstrates the level of frustration which can be experienced when one is confronted by people being negative, or downplaying one's efforts: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-July/015267.html [3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2011-August/001214.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Matt Why don’t we focus on the substance raised, rather than framing everything as Steve sitting around sending volumes of flak your way which let’s face it isn’t very accurate. The board doesn’t do nearly as much as it used to, some members of it are disengaged to say the least, and there are a number of reflections on that, some already raised. Is this a good or bad thing? What metrics are good metrics to judge the board? If we look at those same metrics for OSMF US, where do they sit? If the board doesn’t push to run great conferences and secedes that, doesn’t meet face to face and has email discussions about telephony options or whether meetings are even possible… what *does* it do? Why should we keep it around? Steve On Apr 5, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. it wasn't so long ago [1] that people were writing they'd heard comments that OSM had been devised by Steve as a way to make a heap of money from other peoples' effort, and there was recurring criticism that he was behaving in some sort of sinister way. so it's saddening, and not a little hypocritical, for steve to come out with the same sorts of evil board conspiracy theories now. Matt, Steve was merely expressing his doubt that the conference would come together. He cast no aspersions on the Board that I could see and just described the landscape of conferences as he sees it. okay. i read it very differently, where OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body is very much an aspersion, although an oblique one. in follow-up emails, i definitely take the OSMF has decided to not do anything this year and ... while the OSMF board decides which open source telephony solution is ideal as aspersions, as in [1], where Steve seems to be trivialising the OSMF board, or falsely representing the views of its members. Suggesting that this is somehow a conspiracy theory is a stretch, and seems like you're just looking for an excuse to dump on Steve. i'm sorry it seems that way. perhaps a bit more background would have been in order, but i was trying to keep the length of the email under 'essay' length. i remember very well when Steve himself was the target of such aspersions, as i was trying to point out, and as in [2]. therefore it is saddening to me that the difficult experiences he had, both before the OSMF board and on it, don't appear to prevent him from creating difficult experiences for the current board. Feel free to respectfully disagree with Steve, me, or anyone on these threads, but calling someone hypocritical is unkind and unproductive. i apologise profoundly for any offence that i caused Steve. i was trying to find a word to adequately express the dichotomy between rightly criticising those who are seem to be negative towards the board while in office and seeming to be negative towards the board when not. in any case, it is the action, not the person, that i was trying to call out. as to being productive - i think is important to say that getting involved in OSMF is the most productive way to effect change. casting oblique aspersions is not only negative, but likely to attract more negative responses. perhaps i should have heeded Steve's advice to prospective board members: ... the main thing you should be prepared for isn't so much the time commitment but the fact that it's a thankless task. You will have to make choices between two equally bad options and take the flak for it. [3] i just didn't think, when i was discussing my candidacy with him before the 2011 AGM, that so much of the flak would be coming from him. cheers, matt [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2012-October/001858.html [2] NOTE: i include this because it emphatically demonstrates the level of frustration which can be experienced when one is confronted by people being negative, or downplaying one's efforts: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-July/015267.html [3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2011-August/001214.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Why don't we focus on the substance raised, rather than framing everything as Steve sitting around sending volumes of flak your way which let's face it isn't very accurate. I find this statement a bit hard to understand. How can you say that you're not criticizing the board when your keynote at last year's SOTM was essentially that you did not have confidence in OSMF and wanted to focus on a commercial that entity that you control take over those functions? The board doesn't do nearly as much as it used to, some members of it are disengaged to say the least, and there are a number of reflections on that, some already raised. Is this a good or bad thing? What metrics are good metrics to judge the board? If we look at those same metrics for OSMF US, where do they sit? Why don't you tell us, because I'm not following what you're saying. If the board doesn't push to run great conferences and secedes that, doesn't meet face to face and has email discussions about telephony options or whether meetings are even possible... what *does* it do? Why should we keep it around? So you're suggesting no Foundation whatsoever? - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Hello, since the release there is no new information. There are no application forms, only slightly from last year. Did I consider great if there really will be a SOTM. The arrival is causing great cost, so a rejection in the next few months would be very detrimental to all. But I would appreciate more if the organizations could allay my concerns. Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I’d be surprised. It might be better to run a SOTM South America, or something. Steve On Apr 4, 2014, at 2:06 PM, wn reader wnrea...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, since the release there is no new information. There are no application forms, only slightly from last year. Did I consider great if there really will be a SOTM. The arrival is causing great cost, so a rejection in the next few months would be very detrimental to all. But I would appreciate more if the organizations could allay my concerns. Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. It might be better to run a SOTM South America, or something. Steve OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 As long as this continues then I see no reason to believe that SOTM will stop (especially this years which has already been confirmed to be held in Buenos Aires): https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2014/01/12/buenos-aires-hosts-sotm14/ Hold tight, these things take time to organise. If you are able to help, then get in touch with Henk who will appreciate the help. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] No new information on the SOTM since January 2014
Oh, I should add that this years SOTM is two months later than last years, and as such the schedule will naturally shift back. Last year Birmingham was announced Feb 11th, and the first meeting was Feb 20th. The website went live March 13th and the Call for Presentations hit the site on April 23rd. The conference was in early September. Based on these dates (if you add two months to each to reflect that SOTM is two months later) we are still ahead of last years schedule. Regards, Rob On 4 April 2014 22:59, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: SOTM EU and US, combined with the OSMF focus on being more of a theoretical body have reduced the profit and motivation in doing a SOTM to approximately zero. I hope it still happens, but I'd be surprised. It might be better to run a SOTM South America, or something. Steve OSMF organised conferences (State Of The Map) should continue to be at least self-financing. http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2013-12-10 As long as this continues then I see no reason to believe that SOTM will stop (especially this years which has already been confirmed to be held in Buenos Aires): https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2014/01/12/buenos-aires-hosts-sotm14/ Hold tight, these things take time to organise. If you are able to help, then get in touch with Henk who will appreciate the help. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
