[OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/ Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page... Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days (read mostly negative)... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I saw this yesterday and wondered why it took El Reg so long to report on this? The announcement made these mailing lists on 23rd December last year. Ed From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of D Tucny Sent: 11 February 2009 09:31 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/ Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page... Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days (read mostly negative)... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Interesting how a few of the comments echo the early Wikipedia criticisms, and miss the point about open data. 2009/2/11 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: I saw this yesterday and wondered why it took El Reg so long to report on this? The announcement made these mailing lists on 23rd December last year. Ed From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of D Tucny Sent: 11 February 2009 09:31 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/ Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page... Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days (read mostly negative)... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I am just waiting for David Earl or someone else to comment on the firstness statement! Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ _ From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach Sent: 11 February 2009 10:00 To: 'D Tucny'; 'Talk Openstreetmap' Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg I saw this yesterday and wondered why it took El Reg so long to report on this? The announcement made these mailing lists on 23rd December last year. Ed From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of D Tucny Sent: 11 February 2009 09:31 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/ Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page... Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days (read mostly negative)... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On of the comments: I took a look, and blow me down, my road was missing. So I registered, and tried to add it. I failed. A project that's all about the people adding the roads, and I couldn't for the life of me work out how to add a road. An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. (I managed to move a few other roads around accidentally while trying things, but I think I managed not to save those changes.) I won't be going back. Here we see how a Newbie meets OSM : a missing Add Road option. I think he is representative for a lot newbies What can we learn from that (I suppose he tried Potlatch) Could a few small help buttons with a label readin (add road) leading to a basic help page do something for this guy ?? Or could some macro system help him ? ert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Steve Chilton Verzonden: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:20 AM Aan: Ed Loach; D Tucny; Talk Openstreetmap Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg I am just waiting for David Earl or someone else to comment on the firstness statement! Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ _ From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach Sent: 11 February 2009 10:00 To: 'D Tucny'; 'Talk Openstreetmap' Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg I saw this yesterday and wondered why it took El Reg so long to report on this? The announcement made these mailing lists on 23rd December last year. Ed From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of D Tucny Sent: 11 February 2009 09:31 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/ Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page... Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days (read mostly negative)... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On 11 Feb 2009, at 11:37, Gert Gremmen wrote: On of the comments: I took a look, and blow me down, my road was missing. So I registered, and tried to add it. I failed. A project that's all about the people adding the roads, and I couldn't for the life of me work out how to add a road. An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. (I managed to move a few other roads around accidentally while trying things, but I think I managed not to save those changes.) I won't be going back. Here we see how a Newbie meets OSM : a missing Add Road option. I think he is representative for a lot newbies What can we learn from that (I suppose he tried Potlatch) Could a few small help buttons with a label readin (add road) leading to a basic help page do something for this guy ?? Or could some macro system help him ? When you start potlatch there is a welcome screen with the options start, play, and help. Once you are beyond that screen there is only the help wiki link in the left side bar, which doesn't point to any useful help. I have created: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1584 for RichardF. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wednesday 11 February 2009 17:07:18 Gert Gremmen wrote: I took a look, and blow me down, my road was missing. So I registered, and tried to add it. I failed. A project that's all about the people adding the roads, and I couldn't for the life of me work out how to add a road. An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. (I managed to move a few other roads around accidentally while trying things, but I think I managed not to save those changes.) I won't be going back. Here we see how a Newbie meets OSM : a missing Add Road option. I think he is representative for a lot newbies What can we learn from that does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
When you start potlatch there is a welcome screen with the options start, play, and help. Once you are beyond that screen there is only the help wiki link in the left side bar, which doesn't point to any useful help The concept of an editor is already too complex for most people. This guy searches for command buttons corresponding to it's first desire: add a road, or add a cycleway, or change road, or change name, not start or play or help. The current concept is good for geeks , like you and me, and people that are really interested. The geeks are on-board ( 1). Now it's time to create a user interface for the rest of the world. Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Shaun McDonald Verzonden: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:01 PM Aan: Talk Openstreetmap Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg On 11 Feb 2009, at 11:37, Gert Gremmen wrote: On of the comments: I took a look, and blow me down, my road was missing. So I registered, and tried to add it. I failed. A project that's all about the people adding the roads, and I couldn't for the life of me work out how to add a road. An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. (I managed to move a few other roads around accidentally while trying things, but I think I managed not to save those changes.) I won't be going back. Here we see how a Newbie meets OSM : a missing Add Road option. I think he is representative for a lot newbies What can we learn from that (I suppose he tried Potlatch) Could a few small help buttons with a label readin (add road) leading to a basic help page do something for this guy ?? Or could some macro system help him ? When you start potlatch there is a welcome screen with the options start, play, and help. Once you are beyond that screen there is only the help wiki link in the left side bar, which doesn't point to any useful help. I have created: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1584 for RichardF. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wednesday 11 February 2009 17:48:03 Gert Gremmen wrote: Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? yes. OSM. And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Gert Gremmen wrote: The current concept is good for geeks , like you and me, and people that are really interested. The geeks are on-board ( 1). Now it's time to create a user interface for the rest of the world. Yes, I agree absolutely (wow, Gert and I agree on something :) ). http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2008-July/010994.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-November/031778.html Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? Yes on both counts: Google MapMaker. I personally don't want to write the editing interface that the rest of the world uses, and it's slightly insane that somehow I've ended up doing so (or, at least, what we have so far) - I mean, I'm not even a programmer, I'm a magazine editor with not a whole lot of free time. If future-Potlatch were to become _an_ editor available on the main site rather than _the_ editor, I'd be very happy. Of course, CloudMade might already be working on this - can anyone from CM confirm/otherwise? Would help the rest of us in knowing what to do next. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OSM-on-The-Reg-tp21951170p21953743.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Shaun McDonald wrote: I have created: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1584 for RichardF. :) Thanks. Of course, the other thing we could do is rescue the wiki from trainwreck territory. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OSM-on-The-Reg-tp21951170p21953758.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On 11/02/2009 12:05, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Wednesday 11 February 2009 17:07:18 Gert Gremmen wrote: An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Indeed, but his misunderstanding is even more fundamental than that. Where did he get the location of his road from? I bet he didn't have a GPS track, so would simply have been guessing (unless lucky enough to be in a Yahoo coverage area and recognising his street). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: yes. OSM. And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Just guessing: That kind of user might be looking for something like a wizard: click button add road - show instruction click start of road - show instruction click end of road - show instruction enter name of road. I know that there are a lot of details missing there. /Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Have a look at Google MapMaker. We don't have to dumb down; we can offer both and give people the choice. Bear in mind that Potlatch was never originally meant to be an editor specially for beginners; it was meant to be something for _quick_ editing. The reasons I first wrote it were that (a) JOSM wouldn't work on my machine (OS X 10.3, so no Java 1.5), and (b) when I did use ye anciente JOSM, I thought what the hell is this create node/create segment/create way shit? I want something that works like Illustrator. So I don't want to dumb Potlatch down, either. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OSM-on-The-Reg-tp21951170p21953996.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wednesday 11 February 2009 18:10:32 Jonas Svensson wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: yes. OSM. And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Just guessing: That kind of user might be looking for something like a wizard: click button add road - show instruction click start of road - show instruction click end of road - show instruction enter name of road. what about the rest of the road between the start and end? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Indeed, but his misunderstanding is even more fundamental than that. Or just trolling. It wouldn't be the first time on a Register comments page. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
For very simple editing, would it not be possible to use the vector features in openlayers? http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/vector-formats.html Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Wednesday 11 February 2009 18:10:32 Jonas Svensson wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: yes. OSM. And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Just guessing: That kind of user might be looking for something like a wizard: click button add road - show instruction click start of road - show instruction click end of road - show instruction enter name of road. what about the rest of the road between the start and end? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
what about the rest of the road between the start and end? modify road - click for inserting angle/node or whatever sounds best modify road - click to add name / click to define road type (picture assisted)/ click for one-way / click for smoothness (; After all, it's not difficult, just need to tell the people how ! a small window will have to attend all users to the OSM methods, and to the copyright issues. However, OSM -as all open structures- will always be subject to abuse users (abusers?) , hackers are smart enough to write their destruction bots, or even to illegally copy whole google into OSM ;)) Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Kenneth Gonsalves Verzonden: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:54 PM Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg On Wednesday 11 February 2009 18:10:32 Jonas Svensson wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: yes. OSM. And there is a limit to the extent that we can dumb down the interface without compromising usefulness. How would 'add a road' work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Just guessing: That kind of user might be looking for something like a wizard: click button add road - show instruction click start of road - show instruction click end of road - show instruction enter name of road. what about the rest of the road between the start and end? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:43 AM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: On 11/02/2009 12:05, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Wednesday 11 February 2009 17:07:18 Gert Gremmen wrote: An Add Road option, maybe? Oooh no, nothing like that. does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Indeed, but his misunderstanding is even more fundamental than that. Where did he get the location of his road from? I bet he didn't have a GPS track, so would simply have been guessing (unless lucky enough to be in a Yahoo coverage area and recognising his street). I agree, there should be some slight barrier to entry in which the mapper learns about communitty standards for adding data, especially dervied data. The reason Google's MyMaps can allow just about anything is that it isn't added to the main map. Even location edits aren't pushed out until they're reviewed. We need to decide whether or not we will accept the burden of checking all edits made by drive by mappers. Cheers, Adam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: If future-Potlatch were to become _an_ editor available on the main site rather than _the_ editor, I'd be very happy. Of course, CloudMade might already be working on this - can anyone from CM confirm/otherwise? Would help the rest of us in knowing what to do next. After 0.6 is out, we're planning on working on OAuth support for the OSM website. This will, amongst other things, help promote having editors running on other websites without the third-party-website asking for OSM credentials. After that I want to figure out how to get a different version of Potlatch working on opencyclemap.org, especially with my own set of cycling-related presets. I think having even just multiple versions of Potlatch working on different websites will start relieving the pressure of there being _the_ editor. If we can get other people experimenting with Potlatch (or even Chris Schmidt's previous Openlayers-based editors) then we'll get more creativity, and then it's up to the community as to which one we pick out for the main website. I don't want there to be any compunction for online editor development being shackled to osm.org (which potlatch is at the moment, to a great extent). As for what I think you were really asking, we're really focussed on our release at the moment, but we're always interested in seeing what developments in editors there are. As well as advanced stuff (like Matt's terracing plugin he's been working on) we're also interested in the ultra-newbie editor stuff you're discussing here, but it's the enabling technologies like OAuth that we're actively working on/scheduling. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:08:05 -0500 Adam Schreiber sa...@clemson.edu wrote: I agree, there should be some slight barrier to entry in which the mapper learns about communitty standards for adding data, especially dervied data. The reason Google's MyMaps can allow just about anything is that it isn't added to the main map. Even location edits aren't pushed out until they're reviewed. We need to decide whether or not we will accept the burden of checking all edits made by drive by mappers. So then can't we do something similar? Add a big button somewhere linking to open street bugs, ask people where they are getting their information from when they add a bug, possibly give them the ability to add in more than a single node? -- Alice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kærast kaer...@qvox.org wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:08:05 -0500 Adam Schreiber sa...@clemson.edu wrote: I agree, there should be some slight barrier to entry in which the mapper learns about communitty standards for adding data, especially dervied data. The reason Google's MyMaps can allow just about anything is that it isn't added to the main map. Even location edits aren't pushed out until they're reviewed. We need to decide whether or not we will accept the burden of checking all edits made by drive by mappers. So then can't we do something similar? Add a big button somewhere linking to open street bugs, ask people where they are getting their information from when they add a bug, possibly give them the ability to add in more than a single node? We certainly can, but that wasn't what was being discussed. At the moment IIRC, OpenStreetBugs isn't free software and we can't tightly integrate with it as much as we might like because of that. Cheers, Adam Alice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:43 AM, David Earl wrote: Indeed, but his misunderstanding is even more fundamental than that. Where did he get the location of his road from? Guessing, from where the other roads are? My thought about the OSM philosophy towards editing is incremental improvements, always. If this would-be user put the road in a slightly wrong place, but with the correct road name, someone who came along afterwards with a GPS receiver could see that the road is misplaced, and could move it. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:27 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: work? I cannot even begin to dream of how to code such a thing. Here's how to dream of it: ask a newbie what they expect. Write down the steps. Try to code them. If you can, you're done. If not, then go back and ask the newbie for more expectations. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:37 AM, Gert Gremmen wrote: I think he is representative for a lot newbies Probably. Been to Wikimapia.org lately? They now have shapes on their POI database. The method for drawing shapes is VERY simple. LIke this: o Click Add place o Move the corners of the box. o If you need another vertex, hover near the line and it creates a rubber-band line. Move the cursor far enough away and it stops rubber- banding. o Click on the vertices of the object. Of course, their job is easier because they're letting you trace Google Maps aerial photos. Plus they have no contributor agreement (last time I checked), so they don't own the data they've collected. It's a horrible bodge, but we can definitely take some usability ideas from them. They didn't acquire 9M POIs by being hard to use. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Am 11.02.2009 13:18, Gert Gremmen: Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? *cough* http://www.google.com/mapmaker *cough* btw. They have expanded the list of supported countries to 160 :-o Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I thought that last summer after SOTM, there was some desire to build a system similar to OSB but integrated to the main site and opensource. There was even a talk about having a hack weekend (or day?) in London but unfortunately I can't find any trace of it. It probably disappeared due to the pressing issues linked to API 0.6. Renaud. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Adam Schreiber sa...@clemson.edu wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kærast kaer...@qvox.org wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:08:05 -0500 Adam Schreiber sa...@clemson.edu wrote: I agree, there should be some slight barrier to entry in which the mapper learns about communitty standards for adding data, especially dervied data. The reason Google's MyMaps can allow just about anything is that it isn't added to the main map. Even location edits aren't pushed out until they're reviewed. We need to decide whether or not we will accept the burden of checking all edits made by drive by mappers. So then can't we do something similar? Add a big button somewhere linking to open street bugs, ask people where they are getting their information from when they add a bug, possibly give them the ability to add in more than a single node? We certainly can, but that wasn't what was being discussed. At the moment IIRC, OpenStreetBugs isn't free software and we can't tightly integrate with it as much as we might like because of that. Cheers, Adam Alice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I agree with Gert on the fact that 'the concept is good for geeks' but it IS time to create a user interface for the rest of the world. I have held a few mapping parties, trying to get more hikers, cyclists, retired folk who love maps, involved with OSM but with the barrier that OSM isn't user friendly for these folks. One small example on Potlatch would be the light grey on white background-- for most, this gives the look of 'inactive'. Also, the icons are small and it's not 'obvious' that one must click on the car icon to change it to a person, to a boat (etc.) to change to type of feature you are tagging. Yes! There is the wiki and it is very, very helpful... but also remember that the average attention span is about 2.2 seconds, and if it isn't seriously simple, we lose people... There's more from where this comes... and I'd be happy to pass it on to the OSM community or to the appropriate person! I would love to be involved with helping build a great 'user friendly' editor for the 'rest of the world' :) Hurricane Hurricane McEwen Central Mountain Community Ambassador hurric...@cloudmade.com skype: hurricanecloudmade twitter: hurricanemcewen On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:31 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Gert Gremmen wrote: The current concept is good for geeks , like you and me, and people that are really interested. The geeks are on-board ( 1). Now it's time to create a user interface for the rest of the world. Yes, I agree absolutely (wow, Gert and I agree on something :) ). http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2008-July/010994.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-November/ 031778.html Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? Yes on both counts: Google MapMaker. I personally don't want to write the editing interface that the rest of the world uses, and it's slightly insane that somehow I've ended up doing so (or, at least, what we have so far) - I mean, I'm not even a programmer, I'm a magazine editor with not a whole lot of free time. If future- Potlatch were to become _an_ editor available on the main site rather than _the_ editor, I'd be very happy. Of course, CloudMade might already be working on this - can anyone from CM confirm/otherwise? Would help the rest of us in knowing what to do next. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OSM-on-The-Reg-tp21951170p21953743.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Hurricane McEwen Central Mountain Community Ambassador hurric...@cloudmade.com skype: hurricanecloudmade twitter: hurricanemcewen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de writes: Am 11.02.2009 13:18, Gert Gremmen: Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? *cough* http://www.google.com/mapmaker *cough* And the thing is that Mapmaker is probably known to more people than OSM expectations of beginners will be for our editor to work just the same than Mapmaker. And if Mapmaker has an Add Road button (don't know it myself) people expect one here, too. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I had never played with it, so I gave it a quick try, and it's probably a bit easier to use than potlatch. Here's what they say in their help page: http://sites.google.com/site/mapmakeruserhelp/making-maps But I think that the way it works, while good for beginners, is probably slow and frustrating for advanced users, and this is where potlatch probably surpasses gmm. I'm pretty sure that offering a beginner and advanced users interface could be done and some suggestions I've read in this thread seemed sensible. Just my $.02 Yann Le 11 févr. 09 à 18:33, Matthias Julius a écrit : Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de writes: Am 11.02.2009 13:18, Gert Gremmen: Kenneth: does *any* mapping app have an option like 'add road'? Do you know any mapping application accessible for everyone having internet ??? *cough* http://www.google.com/mapmaker *cough* And the thing is that Mapmaker is probably known to more people than OSM expectations of beginners will be for our editor to work just the same than Mapmaker. And if Mapmaker has an Add Road button (don't know it myself) people expect one here, too. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
I had a look at Google Mapmaker as well (I'd not used it before either). Frankly, it seems a bit pants: When trying to use it it asked me to Please zoom in to browse features in the current map view but on the same screen said We are sorry, but we don't have maps at this zoom level for this region. Try zooming out for a broader look. Clearly something is wrong, but from reading the screen I've no idea what. The two strange buttons below the browse text on the map don't seem to do anything - presumably nothing has been added locally or I'm not allowed to edit here for some reason? There's an on-screen link that says 160+ countries editable in Google Map Maker which goes to a page which lists about 100 (but not the UK or US), but DOES list them on a slippy map above? Attempting to outline a feature (Pride Park in Derby, England, FWIW) gives a failed to create feature error and a search of the site for that text offers no help. I presume what's happening is that they're using Google Mapmaker where they know that their existing maps are a bit rubbish - a quick check of Bulawayo suggests that that might be the case. That certainly seemed to have more roads and features than the OSM map of Bulawayo did - or at least it did until the browser page froze with a loading... message. Maybe something more akin to openstreetbugs plus a simple guided way to add one feature at a time should be integrated into OSM, but I wouldn't use GMM as an example except of what not to do! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Someoneelse li...@mail.atownsend.org.ukwrote: Maybe something more akin to openstreetbugs plus a simple guided way to add one feature at a time should be integrated into OSM, but I wouldn't use GMM as an example except of what not to do! Maybe it's because I read the initial blog post on the Google Blog about it a while ago, but it seemed clear to me that they only let you create map features in countries that are listed on the page of supported areas. The US and UK are definitely not in those areas. In the areas that are supported, the user interface is quite abstract, but once you get the hang of it I could see how it would be very quick. One thing that I'd like to see in any newbie-editor for OSM is a create road button that would ask for road name and type. The user could then expand into advanced options if they wanted to apply speed limit or what not. Their review process is pretty interesting, too. In some areas, any single change has to be reviewed by at least 2 people -- one of which is supposed to have local knowledge of the area. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
Someoneelse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk writes: Maybe something more akin to openstreetbugs plus a simple guided way to add one feature at a time should be integrated into OSM, but I wouldn't use GMM as an example except of what not to do! We certainly should not try to emulate their bugs. But, are there any elements in their user interface that are nice to have (if they work right)? Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
The concept of an editor is already too complex for most people. This guy searches for command buttons corresponding to it's first desire: add a road, or add a cycleway, or change road, Then let them add road (highway=road) and then let the geeks figure out if it is secondary, residential, unclassified or whatever... Maybe add some complete novice mode in potlatch, with things like add road, add river ... I guess no more than 15 functions ... and perhaps make it a bit foolproof, so users won't accidentally move existing roads by dragging ways/nodes elsewhere when clicking on the map furiously. Maybe the last button in row would be to enter expert mode, aka old potlatch Perhaps change the created_by to Potlatch novice mode or alike for data created in the novice mode, so we can spot bugs created by inexperienced users easier. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
... But, are there any elements in their user interface that are nice to have (if they work right)? I didn't get that far, to be honest. If it helps, the things that I found confusing about Potlatch 6 months or so ago were the same things that have been discussed here before - where's the save button and what do those icons without any text next to them on screen do? That was the point that following the link labelled help seemed to be a really good idea... One thing that might be useful would be some sort of My OSM or a saved play mode feature* - add stuff in a basic editor, but don't commit it to be part of the main map until you're happy that you haven't messed something up. That way someone needn't be scared of accidentally deleting stuff by pressing the wrong button. A combination of finger trouble at my end and slow response from the server once caused me to delete most of the A9 in Scotland once - luckily I found undo before anyone fell into the sea, but it could have been embarrassing. I can imagine how something like Google Mapmaker might be useful for tracing stuff from Google satellite photos. The OSM equivalent I suppose would be tracing from Yahoo aerial photos, but at least where I live that's only useful for the largest features (woods, mainly). NPE's useful up to a point, but locally colliery closures, railway removals, opencast mining and new industrial estates means that it's just another historical document. So, to a lesser extent, is the local OS Explorer map - that has a few large areas of blank space on it where a former colliery site has been opencasted or land restored. Mind you, it was the fact that OS maps weren't reliable locally that lead me to store stuff as GPS POIs, which turn lead to OSM. *No, I've no idea how to implement this either. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
2009/2/11 Someoneelse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk: One thing that might be useful would be some sort of My OSM or a saved play mode feature* - Now, that would be an interesting idea - being able to access all your edits and the history of these in one place. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
