Re: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-03 Thread Paul Norman 

On 1/2/2017 4:31 AM, Daniel Koć wrote:
If you mean default style (osm-carto), it's already appointed for 
rendering =} :


https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2203 


It's wrong to say it's "appointed" for rendering. There's an issue open 
requesting it be rendered, but that doesn't mean we have decided to 
render it, and if we do want to render it, it doesn't mean we can find a 
way to do so.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread mbranco 
Hi Joost,
happy to hear that also in nothern Europe there is the same issue :-)

As I answered to Daniel in the same thread you read, I'm testing with guys
of Osmose to manage the issue "square without proper tag" : it will be an
useful support to fix this issue.

Cheers,

  Marco

2017-01-02 17:34 GMT+01:00 mbranco [via GIS] <
ml-node+s19327n5888482...@n8.nabble.com>:

> Thank you Daniel, quite good news! (I  didn't know your github link)
> I'm sure in very few time we'll have thousands of squares (only in Italy
> there are 30.000 of them).
> We are already discussing this issue in the Italian mailing list [1], and
> as soon as I'll report your answer mappers will start to do the job.
>
> Also, to speed up the process I'd like to inform all interested people
> that I've done some tests with guys of Osmose to report in their excellent
> site all the (likely) Italian squares: to do this my script look for all
> osm objects tagged with "name=piazza* ; in Italian language "piazza" is a
> very specific word, so false positives are very few.
> We'll be happy to do the same for other languages/countries, so that
> Osmose will be able to assist more communities in the job.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   Marco
>
> [1] http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Le-piazze-tp5887345.html
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread Daniel Koć 

W dniu 02.01.2017 17:34, mbranco napisał(a):

Also, to speed up the process I'd like to inform all interested people 
that
I've done some tests with guys of Osmose to report in their excellent 
site

all the (likely) Italian squares: to do this my script look for all osm
objects tagged with "name=piazza* ; in Italian language "piazza" is a 
very

specific word, so false positives are very few.
We'll be happy to do the same for other languages/countries, so that 
Osmose

will be able to assist more communities in the job.


Great!

In Polish it's "plac", so "name=plac *" (probably with a space to avoid 
some other names that can start like this).


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread mbranco 
Thank you Daniel, quite good news! (I  didn't know your github link)
I'm sure in very few time we'll have thousands of squares (only in Italy
there are 30.000 of them).
We are already discussing this issue in the Italian mailing list [1], and as
soon as I'll report your answer mappers will start to do the job.

Also, to speed up the process I'd like to inform all interested people that
I've done some tests with guys of Osmose to report in their excellent site
all the (likely) Italian squares: to do this my script look for all osm
objects tagged with "name=piazza* ; in Italian language "piazza" is a very
specific word, so false positives are very few.
We'll be happy to do the same for other languages/countries, so that Osmose
will be able to assist more communities in the job.

Cheers,

  Marco

[1] http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Le-piazze-tp5887345.html




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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread joost schouppe 
Hi,

I never knew this existed, but apparently you can use place=square to mark
squares (NL: plein, FR: place). As explained below, current mapping
practice make for some ambiguous situations, which can be avoided using
this tag. Use is rising very quickly since mid 2015.
Any reason for not using this in Belgium? (only a few are mapped, in
Brussels)

-- Forwarded message --
From: mbranco <mbran...@gmail.com>
Date: 2017-01-02 13:16 GMT+01:00
Subject: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)
To: t...@openstreetmap.org


Following are personal thoughts, I'd like to discuss them and discover if it
could be a general issue (not only for my country, Italy).

*Premise*

 -  Squares are urban areas, whose perimeter is drawable with a single
closed way.
 -  These areas have an official name.
 -  The old and very basic paper maps show always at least two elements, for
towns/cities: streets and squares (and related names, if they are big enough
to show them too).
 -  Inside square areas there could be a lot of different things: highways,
monuments, buildings, flowerbeds, … : attributes of the square must refer to
all the area, not only a part (relevant or not) of it.
 -  I prefer think that practicability could be one of the (optional)
attribute of a square, not the opposite: square is not an (optional)
attribute of the practicability --> i.e. highway=pedestrian + area=yes .
 -  highway=pedestrian + area=yes could not mean “square”: there are a lot
of pedestrian areas, for example in parks, that are not squares.
 -  Practicability inside a square is fully described by all the highways
inside it, the two kind of information (for square and for practicability)
can be fully disjointed (for the square with nothing inside and fully
pedestrian,  the square area and the pedestrian area coincide).

*Request*

Please render the place=square tag (or a new tag, whatever you prefer).
/
“Place” is already widely used (and rendered) for urban areas: borough ,
suburb, quarter, neighbourhood, city_block, ... ; it’s not widely used for
squares because it’s not rendered!/

*Hints*

 - Maybe rendering could use a semi-transparent color and square name could
be evidenced, as it’s already done e.g. for landuse=military [1] (a common
landuse in urban areas).
 -  Names of the highways inside the square which are identical to the name
of the square could be omitted [2] (just only in the rendering, of course).
 -  Another example of possible rendering is here [3] .


*
Hopes*

 -  Mappers could avoid to put highway=pedestrian + area=yes in squares like
this one [4] .
 -  Mappers which don’t like the previous solution but nevertheless think
that it’s useful to read the square name in the rendering, could stop to
assign arbitrarily the square name to the marketplace, or to the parking
area, or to the flowerbed, or to any other item inside the square [5].
 - Extraction tools as Osmfilter or Overpass could do selections related to
squares, street-guide tools as MapOSMatic could produce better outputs.

Thank you for your attention, cheers and Happy New Year!

 Marco

[1] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/landuse_military.jpg
[2] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/PiazzaRebubblicaNEW2.jpg
[3] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/torino_zoom16NEW2.jpg
[4] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/PiazzaRepubblica_night.jpg
[5] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/wrongSquares.jpg



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Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
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Re: [OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread Daniel Koć 

W dniu 02.01.2017 13:16, mbranco napisał(a):


*Request*

Please render the place=square tag (or a new tag, whatever you 
prefer).


If you mean default style (osm-carto), it's already appointed for 
rendering =} :


https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2203

I support the idea to do it, but we have currently 1281 uses:

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/place=square

which is quite close to 2k limit we use for most of the elements and 
it's raising fast, so I just wait for it to avoid another useless 
discussion about limits and special cases.


So - please tag more places like this, if you want it to be rendered 
rather sooner than later!


--
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[OSM-talk] Square (Place, Platz,Piazza, Plaza, …)

2017-01-02 Thread mbranco 
Following are personal thoughts, I'd like to discuss them and discover if it
could be a general issue (not only for my country, Italy).

*Premise*

 -  Squares are urban areas, whose perimeter is drawable with a single
closed way.
 -  These areas have an official name.
 -  The old and very basic paper maps show always at least two elements, for
towns/cities: streets and squares (and related names, if they are big enough
to show them too).
 -  Inside square areas there could be a lot of different things: highways,
monuments, buildings, flowerbeds, … : attributes of the square must refer to
all the area, not only a part (relevant or not) of it.
 -  I prefer think that practicability could be one of the (optional)
attribute of a square, not the opposite: square is not an (optional)
attribute of the practicability --> i.e. highway=pedestrian + area=yes .
 -  highway=pedestrian + area=yes could not mean “square”: there are a lot
of pedestrian areas, for example in parks, that are not squares.
 -  Practicability inside a square is fully described by all the highways
inside it, the two kind of information (for square and for practicability)
can be fully disjointed (for the square with nothing inside and fully
pedestrian,  the square area and the pedestrian area coincide).

*Request*

Please render the place=square tag (or a new tag, whatever you prefer).
/
“Place” is already widely used (and rendered) for urban areas: borough ,
suburb, quarter, neighbourhood, city_block, ... ; it’s not widely used for
squares because it’s not rendered!/

*Hints*

 - Maybe rendering could use a semi-transparent color and square name could
be evidenced, as it’s already done e.g. for landuse=military [1] (a common
landuse in urban areas).
 -  Names of the highways inside the square which are identical to the name
of the square could be omitted [2] (just only in the rendering, of course).
 -  Another example of possible rendering is here [3] .

 
*
Hopes*

 -  Mappers could avoid to put highway=pedestrian + area=yes in squares like
this one [4] .
 -  Mappers which don’t like the previous solution but nevertheless think
that it’s useful to read the square name in the rendering, could stop to
assign arbitrarily the square name to the marketplace, or to the parking
area, or to the flowerbed, or to any other item inside the square [5].
 - Extraction tools as Osmfilter or Overpass could do selections related to
squares, street-guide tools as MapOSMatic could produce better outputs.

Thank you for your attention, cheers and Happy New Year!  

 Marco

[1] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/landuse_military.jpg
[2] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/PiazzaRebubblicaNEW2.jpg
[3] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/torino_zoom16NEW2.jpg
[4] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/PiazzaRepubblica_night.jpg
[5] http://osmele.elilan.com/squares/wrongSquares.jpg



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