Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Mar 2018, at 23:09, Richard  wrote:
> 
> He could later still choose to create many other accounts under other names 
> and
> I guess we don't have any policy prohibiting this but most people won't do it 
> without
> good reason.


rather than prohibiting, it’s the opposite, actually the import guidelines 
advise to use distinct users for imports


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Richard]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 01:51:54AM -0300, Nicolás Alvarez wrote:
> El 18 mar. 2018, a la(s) 20:50, François Lacombe  
> escribió:
> 
> > 
> > 2018-03-19 0:38 GMT+01:00 Michael Kugelmann :
> >>> Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:
> >>> fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the 
> >>> same?
> >> This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have 
> >> conflicts => will not work w/o huge effort...
> >> There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not 
> >> because nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.
> > 
> > This is a great idea.
> > 
> > Can you sum up what are the technical issues which make it not possible 
> > please ?
> 
> Suppose user 'John' currently has a wiki account called 'JohnW'. That's 
> currently possible, since the accounts are independent. What do you do if you 
> unify the accounts? Does OSM user John get a new wiki account called John? 
> What if that wiki account already exists? Or does he have to manually connect 
> the OSM and Wiki accounts?
> 
> What if an OSM user called JohnW also exists (but never used the wiki yet), 
> what wiki account do you create for him if the name JohnW is already taken on 
> the wiki?

just keep the different names for each project - and link them if user agrees 
or rather asks 
for it (eg for example ask on next login).
There are also users who have 2 or more OSM editing accounts for legitimate 
reasons and other
corner cases but start with the simple stuff first: That is a new user creates 
an account
in either place so he should also get an account created in the other place 
with the same
name. He could later still choose to create many other accounts under other 
names and
I guess we don't have any policy prohibiting this but most people won't do it 
without
good reason.

> Users can rename OSM accounts. What happens if a user has accounts on both 
> OSM and the wiki, with the same name, but changes his user name to 
> "Javiersanp"? That name isn't taken in OSM, but it's taken in the wiki. Does 
> the rename get rejected?

should be rejected indeed. Even if it is allowed to have different names in the 
wiki and OSM
creating fresh confusion like that happens 99% by accident so the user would be 
helped if
it is rejected and 1% malice so it should be forbidden.

> There are different OSM users "nicolas" and "Nicolas". Wiki usernames always 
> have a uppercase first letter, so if accounts get unified, those two 
> different OSM users can't get different wiki accounts. There is a similar 
> problem with the wiki considering " " (space) and "_" (underscore) 
> equivalent, while OSM doesn't.

keep the old accounts and enforce consistent rules on new ones.

Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Matej Lieskovský]

Maybe we could use OAuth only to link the accounts - wiki user X is (proven
by OAuth) to be OSM contributor Y. Inelegant, but it would make it simpler
to identify the active mappers among the wiki accounts. Obviously an opt-in
system.

On 19 March 2018 at 08:25, Andrew Hain <andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> You could say that every existing edit is by an “old” account and new
> ones going forwards are by main site accounts which occasionally have the
> same name. Perhaps you could link some of the old wiki accounts to the OSM
> user names where they are known to be the same person.
>
>
> --
>
> Andrew
>
>
> --
> *From:* Nicolás Alvarez <nicolas.alva...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 19 March 2018 04:51
> *To:* osm-talk
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote
> cheating?
>
> El 18 mar. 2018, a la(s) 20:50, François Lacombe <
> fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>
> 2018-03-19 0:38 GMT+01:00 Michael Kugelmann <michaelk_...@gmx.de>:
>
> Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:
>
> fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?
>
> This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have
> conflicts => will not work w/o huge effort...
> There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not
> because nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.
>
>
> This is a great idea.
>
> Can you sum up what are the technical issues which make it not possible
> please ?
>
>
> Suppose user 'John' currently has a wiki account called 'JohnW'. That's
> currently possible, since the accounts are independent. What do you do if
> you unify the accounts? Does OSM user John get a new wiki account called
> John? What if that wiki account already exists? Or does he have to manually
> connect the OSM and Wiki accounts?
>
> What if an OSM user called JohnW also exists (but never used the wiki
> yet), what wiki account do you create for him if the name JohnW is already
> taken on the wiki?
>
> Users can rename OSM accounts. What happens if a user has accounts on both
> OSM and the wiki, with the same name, but changes his user name to
> "Javiersanp"? That name isn't taken in OSM, but it's taken in the wiki.
> Does the rename get rejected?
>
> There are different OSM users "nicolas" and "Nicolas". Wiki usernames
> always have a uppercase first letter, so if accounts get unified, those two
> different OSM users can't get different wiki accounts. There is a similar
> problem with the wiki considering " " (space) and "_" (underscore)
> equivalent, while OSM doesn't.
>
>
> I would love it if wiki accounts and OSM accounts were unified, but that
> would need to be done since the start. Now it seems too hard to do it; too
> many conflicts with existing accounts.
>
> --
> Nicolás
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Andrew Hain]

You could say that every existing edit is by an “old” account and new ones 
going forwards are by main site accounts which occasionally have the same name. 
Perhaps you could link some of the old wiki accounts to the OSM user names 
where they are known to be the same person.


--

Andrew



From: Nicolás Alvarez <nicolas.alva...@gmail.com>
Sent: 19 March 2018 04:51
To: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

El 18 mar. 2018, a la(s) 20:50, François Lacombe 
<fl.infosrese...@gmail.com<mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>> escribió:


2018-03-19 0:38 GMT+01:00 Michael Kugelmann 
<michaelk_...@gmx.de<mailto:michaelk_...@gmx.de>>:
Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:
fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?
This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have conflicts 
=> will not work w/o huge effort...
There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not because 
nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.

This is a great idea.

Can you sum up what are the technical issues which make it not possible please ?

Suppose user 'John' currently has a wiki account called 'JohnW'. That's 
currently possible, since the accounts are independent. What do you do if you 
unify the accounts? Does OSM user John get a new wiki account called John? What 
if that wiki account already exists? Or does he have to manually connect the 
OSM and Wiki accounts?

What if an OSM user called JohnW also exists (but never used the wiki yet), 
what wiki account do you create for him if the name JohnW is already taken on 
the wiki?

Users can rename OSM accounts. What happens if a user has accounts on both OSM 
and the wiki, with the same name, but changes his user name to "Javiersanp"? 
That name isn't taken in OSM, but it's taken in the wiki. Does the rename get 
rejected?

There are different OSM users "nicolas" and "Nicolas". Wiki usernames always 
have a uppercase first letter, so if accounts get unified, those two different 
OSM users can't get different wiki accounts. There is a similar problem with 
the wiki considering " " (space) and "_" (underscore) equivalent, while OSM 
doesn't.


I would love it if wiki accounts and OSM accounts were unified, but that would 
need to be done since the start. Now it seems too hard to do it; too many 
conflicts with existing accounts.

--
Nicolás
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Nicolás Alvarez]

El 18 mar. 2018, a la(s) 20:50, François Lacombe  
escribió:

> 
> 2018-03-19 0:38 GMT+01:00 Michael Kugelmann :
>>> Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:
>>> fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?
>> This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have 
>> conflicts => will not work w/o huge effort...
>> There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not because 
>> nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.
> 
> This is a great idea.
> 
> Can you sum up what are the technical issues which make it not possible 
> please ?

Suppose user 'John' currently has a wiki account called 'JohnW'. That's 
currently possible, since the accounts are independent. What do you do if you 
unify the accounts? Does OSM user John get a new wiki account called John? What 
if that wiki account already exists? Or does he have to manually connect the 
OSM and Wiki accounts?

What if an OSM user called JohnW also exists (but never used the wiki yet), 
what wiki account do you create for him if the name JohnW is already taken on 
the wiki?

Users can rename OSM accounts. What happens if a user has accounts on both OSM 
and the wiki, with the same name, but changes his user name to "Javiersanp"? 
That name isn't taken in OSM, but it's taken in the wiki. Does the rename get 
rejected?

There are different OSM users "nicolas" and "Nicolas". Wiki usernames always 
have a uppercase first letter, so if accounts get unified, those two different 
OSM users can't get different wiki accounts. There is a similar problem with 
the wiki considering " " (space) and "_" (underscore) equivalent, while OSM 
doesn't.


I would love it if wiki accounts and OSM accounts were unified, but that would 
need to be done since the start. Now it seems too hard to do it; too many 
conflicts with existing accounts.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[François Lacombe]

2018-03-19 0:38 GMT+01:00 Michael Kugelmann :

> Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:
>
>> fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the
>> same?
>>
> This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have
> conflicts => will not work w/o huge effort...
> There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not
> because nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.
>

This is a great idea.

Can you sum up what are the technical issues which make it not possible
please ?

François
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 18.03.2018 um 20:45 schrieb Richard:

fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?
This had been independent in the very old history. And now you have 
conflicts => will not work w/o huge effort...
There had been requests like this 5 years ago or so w/o success. Not 
because nobody wanted to implement but because it was not possible.



BR,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[john whelan]

Sounds sensible.

Cheerio John

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:04 Andrew Hain, <andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Interesting idea. The wiki dates from before OAuth of course, even before
> the fiddle we implemented for trac and the forum. It must be just about the
> only internal communication space not using the main accounts.
>
>
> --
>
> Andrew
>
>
> --
> *From:* Richard <ricoz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 18 March 2018 19:45
> *To:* James
> *Cc:* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
> *Subject:* [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote
> cheating?
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:18:38AM +, James wrote:
> > You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the
> wiki,
> > thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they need to
> > create an account to vote
>
> fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?
>
> I have recent reports from one mapper sending me messages through OSM
> messaging
> that he had trouble setting up a wiki account and commenting on my talk
> page so
> clearly there is some confusion about the accounts and by my estimate only
> a tiny
> minority of mappers could ever have any use for separate mapping and wiki
> accounts.
>
> Richard
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 18/03/2018 19:45, Richard wrote:


fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?



Interestingly, there's recently been a suggestion on OSMF-talk about an 
"OSMF-owned engine for social surveys":


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2018-March/005106.html

Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Andrew Hain]

Interesting idea. The wiki dates from before OAuth of course, even before the 
fiddle we implemented for trac and the forum. It must be just about the only 
internal communication space not using the main accounts.


--

Andrew



From: Richard <ricoz@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 March 2018 19:45
To: James
Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: [OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:18:38AM +, James wrote:
> You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the wiki,
> thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they need to
> create an account to vote

fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?

I have recent reports from one mapper sending me messages through OSM messaging
that he had trouble setting up a wiki account and commenting on my talk page so
clearly there is some confusion about the accounts and by my estimate only a 
tiny
minority of mappers could ever have any use for separate mapping and wiki
accounts.

Richard

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[OSM-talk] Unify Mapping and wiki accounts? -- WAS: Vote cheating?

[Richard]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:18:38AM +, James wrote:
> You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the wiki,
> thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they need to
> create an account to vote

fundamental decission - maybe osm and osm-wiki accounts should be the same?

I have recent reports from one mapper sending me messages through OSM messaging 
that he had trouble setting up a wiki account and commenting on my talk page so 
clearly there is some confusion about the accounts and by my estimate only a 
tiny 
minority of mappers could ever have any use for separate mapping and wiki 
accounts.

Richard

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