Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Svavar Kjarrval]

On mán 22.ágú 2016 11:40, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> Am 22.08.2016 um 01:59 schrieb Svavar Kjarrval:
>> There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
> "notifications that data that may be erroneous" please, not "errors".
> The false positive rate of all such tool tends to rather high and
> believing that the tool is right without checking is a sure way to break
> a lot of data.
>
> Simon
This was my attempt at a simpler method to refer to reports of possible
errors. Didn't realise I'd be tested on those semantics. I'm *not*
suggesting that people act on those kinds of reports without further
verification.

- Svavar Kjarrval


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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Dave F]

On 22/08/2016 12:40, Simon Poole wrote:


"notifications that data that may be erroneous" please, not "errors".
The false positive rate of all such tool tends to rather high and
believing that the tool is right without checking is a sure way to break
a lot of data.

Simon



Indeed. The likes of MapRoulette encourages unverifiable data to be 
added to the database. I find it irritating that, in my locale, I have 
to contact the mapper for between 80 & 90% of their edits.


Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 22 ago 2016, alle ore 13:40, Simon Poole  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> "notifications that data that may be erroneous" please, not "errors".
> The false positive rate of all such tool tends to rather high and
> believing that the tool is right without checking is a sure way to break
> a lot of data.


+1, I'd like to join this choir, please use qm tool output as indications where 
a new survey might be fruitful, not as a means to find places with likely 
errors which you "correct" by the aid of guesswork and aerial imagery, but 
where you don't know the current situation on the ground (and which will leave 
the radar of everybody, also the locals, after you have "corrected" it).

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Andy Townsend]

On 22/08/2016 12:40, john whelan wrote:
Now the idea of something that picks up a POI such as a shop for 
review every x months is interesting and its not impossible to build a 
suitable tool.  I wonder who I can chat to.


There was a web-based thing that did exactly that (can't remember where, 
and it went away when I last looked).


You could probably do something with 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/Notes01 and 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/osmimport_02 though.  The former of 
those can extract data from Overpass around a point (currently for 
fixmes, but you could change that to look for other tags) and the latter 
allows you to update a list of "places you need to go and survey" - 
you'd need to change it to work with a list of POIs etc. from overpass 
and update your local list (what osmimport_02 calls its "base_data" 
file) with that.


Although it's something I've thought about looking at, it's not on my 
list to do any time soon though.


Cheers,

Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Simon Poole]

Am 22.08.2016 um 01:59 schrieb Svavar Kjarrval:
> There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
"notifications that data that may be erroneous" please, not "errors".
The false positive rate of all such tool tends to rather high and
believing that the tool is right without checking is a sure way to break
a lot of data.

Simon

> for example Osmose [1] and Keep right [2]. The users who don't have much
> computer memory installed could use those types of sites instead.
>
> [1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
> [2] http://keepright.at/
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On sun 21.ágú 2016 17:18, john whelan wrote:
>> Yes I know we shouldn’t but just sometimes it’s nice to think about
>> the people who use the maps.  Can we make life a little easier for them?
>>
>> This post is aimed purely at 64 bit Windows users.  The tools may work
>> on other operating systems but I haven’t tried them.  There are other
>> tools around.
>>
>> These days end users like to type something in on their smartphone or
>> other device and have something display.  It maybe they are looking
>> for a hardware store so what could go wrong?
>>
>> Locally a mall was mapped on the building outline and the stores were
>> added store1=store name, store2 etc.  If you type store1=xyz it will
>> be found.  Problem is most users won’t know this and the renderers
>> will omit non standard tags.  My preference would be nodes with
>> shop=hardware name=xyz and simply adding these to the mall makes it
>> all much more usable.
>>
>> Another example is a double space in a name.  Makes it difficult to
>> find but JOSM will warn about this.  Locally a car rental company had
>> its name spelt in four different ways, one of which was the same as
>> the company’s web site.
>>
>> How do we find them in our local city?
>>
>> Step one is download the relevant part of OSM, download.geofabrik.de
>>  is one place to find it.
>>
>> Then we need to cut out just the bit we are interested in. 
>> osmconvert64 can do this but unless you have lots of memory and time
>> I’d first convert the .pbf file to an .osm file.
>>
>> You need the longitude and latitude of the area you’re after.  The
>> easy way is start JOSM and use the slippy map to define the area.  You
>> aren’t going to try to download it, it will be too large.  Click on
>> the bounding box tag and that will give you the minimum and maximum
>> longitude and latitude you need for osmconvert64.
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert#Clipping_based_on_Longitude_and_Latitude
>>
>> If you get a 1k file you’ve probably got the min and max values the
>> wrong way round.
>>
>> This local file can be loaded into JOSM.  It will probably take time
>> to load.  Most cities will load with 64 bit systems these days.  Now
>> run the validator.  If you’re lucky there will be no warnings or errors.
>>
>> The ideal way is to use the JOSM todo plugin and look at each error or
>> warning individually.  Remember the map you’re looking at is probably
>> a day old so for some errors you may wish to download that bit again
>> on a new layer before correcting.  Save the file.
>>
>> Now load the file into Maperitive.  Use the command export-tags to
>> export a list of tags in CSV format.  Load this file into a
>> spreadsheet and look through the sorted tag values.  You may find
>> addr:streetnumber rather than addr:housenumber, government misspelt
>> etc.  Once you know what to look for then you can use JOSM to search
>> for the tag and correct.
>>
>> Have fun
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[john whelan]

Now the idea of something that picks up a POI such as a shop for review
every x months is interesting and its not impossible to build a suitable
tool.  I wonder who I can chat to.

Thanks John

On 22 August 2016 at 06:56, Svavar Kjarrval  wrote:

> I agree the online tools can't help (much) regarding spelling errors...
> yet. A similar error when some stores in a chain have shop=yes and the
> others have a more detailed tag (or even different tags). That being
> said, I too am interested in data quality enhancements, especially when
> it comes to information maintenance and consistency.
>
> The country where I am (Iceland) is sparsely populated outside the
> capital area (bar a few small-ish areas). The distribution of OSM
> volunteers around the country is not in favour of good overall
> information maintenance and going to each municipality every year or two
> to review the information locally would be too expensive. Sometimes we
> in the community know some people in various parts of the country who
> are interested but are not so ready to commit to use a dedicated editor
> (or even iD) on their desktop. Then there is the increasing flow of
> tourists and some of them (thankfully) contribute corrections.
>
> The problems start to occur when the area seems complete and/or has "too
> much information". How can one know a POI has been reviewed recently
> (enough) or not? If I were to walk through a shopping street to verify
> POIs on the way, how could I be fairly sure I wouldn't be duplicating a
> similar effort made by another user just the day or week before? Or if I
> were to enter a small town in the country and have some spare time to
> review the area.
>
> One QA tool I would really like is a smartphone app which would offer an
> interface where people can verify that the information associated with
> the POI is still correct or, if it isn't, either correct the information
> in the app or mark the place as such for someone else to do it. After a
> certain time interval, the POI is marked again as pending review. Then
> one would only need to convince someone local to install that app and
> check it a few times a year while in their town (or even when they
> travel to the neighbouring towns).
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On mán 22.ágú 2016 00:26, john whelan wrote:
> >
> > Whilst the on line tools are useful being able to review the tags in a
> > spreadsheet I found very useful.  The online tools aren't quite so
> > good at picking up four different ways that a car rental company's
> > name has been spelt.  The other part is to do with local knowledge.
> > Often knowing the area gives you an edge when looking over things from
> > the data quality side.
> >
> > Having said that the online tools help enormously to pick out the errors.
> >
> > Thanks for the input
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> >
> > On 21 Aug 2016 8:02 pm, "Svavar Kjarrval"  > > wrote:
> >
> > There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
> > for example Osmose [1] and Keep right [2]. The users who don't
> > have much
> > computer memory installed could use those types of sites instead.
> >
> > [1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
> > 
> > [2] http://keepright.at/
> >
> > - Svavar Kjarrval
> >
> > On sun 21.ágú 2016 17:18, john whelan wrote:
> > > Yes I know we shouldn’t but just sometimes it’s nice to think about
> > > the people who use the maps.  Can we make life a little easier
> > for them?
> > >
> > > This post is aimed purely at 64 bit Windows users.  The tools
> > may work
> > > on other operating systems but I haven’t tried them.  There are
> > other
> > > tools around.
> > >
> > > These days end users like to type something in on their
> > smartphone or
> > > other device and have something display.  It maybe they are looking
> > > for a hardware store so what could go wrong?
> > >
> > > Locally a mall was mapped on the building outline and the stores
> > were
> > > added store1=store name, store2 etc.  If you type store1=xyz it
> will
> > > be found.  Problem is most users won’t know this and the renderers
> > > will omit non standard tags.  My preference would be nodes with
> > > shop=hardware name=xyz and simply adding these to the mall makes it
> > > all much more usable.
> > >
> > > Another example is a double space in a name.  Makes it difficult to
> > > find but JOSM will warn about this.  Locally a car rental
> > company had
> > > its name spelt in four different ways, one of which was the same as
> > > the company’s web site.
> > >
> > > How do we find them in our local city?
> > >
> > > Step one is download the relevant part of OSM,
> > download.geofabrik.de 
> > > 

Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Svavar Kjarrval]

I agree the online tools can't help (much) regarding spelling errors...
yet. A similar error when some stores in a chain have shop=yes and the
others have a more detailed tag (or even different tags). That being
said, I too am interested in data quality enhancements, especially when
it comes to information maintenance and consistency.

The country where I am (Iceland) is sparsely populated outside the
capital area (bar a few small-ish areas). The distribution of OSM
volunteers around the country is not in favour of good overall
information maintenance and going to each municipality every year or two
to review the information locally would be too expensive. Sometimes we
in the community know some people in various parts of the country who
are interested but are not so ready to commit to use a dedicated editor
(or even iD) on their desktop. Then there is the increasing flow of
tourists and some of them (thankfully) contribute corrections.

The problems start to occur when the area seems complete and/or has "too
much information". How can one know a POI has been reviewed recently
(enough) or not? If I were to walk through a shopping street to verify
POIs on the way, how could I be fairly sure I wouldn't be duplicating a
similar effort made by another user just the day or week before? Or if I
were to enter a small town in the country and have some spare time to
review the area.

One QA tool I would really like is a smartphone app which would offer an
interface where people can verify that the information associated with
the POI is still correct or, if it isn't, either correct the information
in the app or mark the place as such for someone else to do it. After a
certain time interval, the POI is marked again as pending review. Then
one would only need to convince someone local to install that app and
check it a few times a year while in their town (or even when they
travel to the neighbouring towns).

- Svavar Kjarrval

On mán 22.ágú 2016 00:26, john whelan wrote:
>
> Whilst the on line tools are useful being able to review the tags in a
> spreadsheet I found very useful.  The online tools aren't quite so
> good at picking up four different ways that a car rental company's
> name has been spelt.  The other part is to do with local knowledge. 
> Often knowing the area gives you an edge when looking over things from
> the data quality side.
>
> Having said that the online tools help enormously to pick out the errors.
>
> Thanks for the input
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On 21 Aug 2016 8:02 pm, "Svavar Kjarrval"  > wrote:
>
> There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
> for example Osmose [1] and Keep right [2]. The users who don't
> have much
> computer memory installed could use those types of sites instead.
>
> [1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
> 
> [2] http://keepright.at/
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On sun 21.ágú 2016 17:18, john whelan wrote:
> > Yes I know we shouldn’t but just sometimes it’s nice to think about
> > the people who use the maps.  Can we make life a little easier
> for them?
> >
> > This post is aimed purely at 64 bit Windows users.  The tools
> may work
> > on other operating systems but I haven’t tried them.  There are
> other
> > tools around.
> >
> > These days end users like to type something in on their
> smartphone or
> > other device and have something display.  It maybe they are looking
> > for a hardware store so what could go wrong?
> >
> > Locally a mall was mapped on the building outline and the stores
> were
> > added store1=store name, store2 etc.  If you type store1=xyz it will
> > be found.  Problem is most users won’t know this and the renderers
> > will omit non standard tags.  My preference would be nodes with
> > shop=hardware name=xyz and simply adding these to the mall makes it
> > all much more usable.
> >
> > Another example is a double space in a name.  Makes it difficult to
> > find but JOSM will warn about this.  Locally a car rental
> company had
> > its name spelt in four different ways, one of which was the same as
> > the company’s web site.
> >
> > How do we find them in our local city?
> >
> > Step one is download the relevant part of OSM,
> download.geofabrik.de 
> >  is one place to find it.
> >
> > Then we need to cut out just the bit we are interested in.
> > osmconvert64 can do this but unless you have lots of memory and time
> > I’d first convert the .pbf file to an .osm file.
> >
> > You need the longitude and latitude of the area you’re after.  The
> > easy way is start JOSM and use the slippy map to define the
> area.  You
> > aren’t going to try to download it, it will 

Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[john whelan]

Whilst the on line tools are useful being able to review the tags in a
spreadsheet I found very useful.  The online tools aren't quite so good at
picking up four different ways that a car rental company's name has been
spelt.  The other part is to do with local knowledge.  Often knowing the
area gives you an edge when looking over things from the data quality side.

Having said that the online tools help enormously to pick out the errors.

Thanks for the input

Cheerio John

On 21 Aug 2016 8:02 pm, "Svavar Kjarrval"  wrote:

> There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
> for example Osmose [1] and Keep right [2]. The users who don't have much
> computer memory installed could use those types of sites instead.
>
> [1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
> [2] http://keepright.at/
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On sun 21.ágú 2016 17:18, john whelan wrote:
> > Yes I know we shouldn’t but just sometimes it’s nice to think about
> > the people who use the maps.  Can we make life a little easier for them?
> >
> > This post is aimed purely at 64 bit Windows users.  The tools may work
> > on other operating systems but I haven’t tried them.  There are other
> > tools around.
> >
> > These days end users like to type something in on their smartphone or
> > other device and have something display.  It maybe they are looking
> > for a hardware store so what could go wrong?
> >
> > Locally a mall was mapped on the building outline and the stores were
> > added store1=store name, store2 etc.  If you type store1=xyz it will
> > be found.  Problem is most users won’t know this and the renderers
> > will omit non standard tags.  My preference would be nodes with
> > shop=hardware name=xyz and simply adding these to the mall makes it
> > all much more usable.
> >
> > Another example is a double space in a name.  Makes it difficult to
> > find but JOSM will warn about this.  Locally a car rental company had
> > its name spelt in four different ways, one of which was the same as
> > the company’s web site.
> >
> > How do we find them in our local city?
> >
> > Step one is download the relevant part of OSM, download.geofabrik.de
> >  is one place to find it.
> >
> > Then we need to cut out just the bit we are interested in.
> > osmconvert64 can do this but unless you have lots of memory and time
> > I’d first convert the .pbf file to an .osm file.
> >
> > You need the longitude and latitude of the area you’re after.  The
> > easy way is start JOSM and use the slippy map to define the area.  You
> > aren’t going to try to download it, it will be too large.  Click on
> > the bounding box tag and that will give you the minimum and maximum
> > longitude and latitude you need for osmconvert64.
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert#Clipping_
> based_on_Longitude_and_Latitude
> >
> > If you get a 1k file you’ve probably got the min and max values the
> > wrong way round.
> >
> > This local file can be loaded into JOSM.  It will probably take time
> > to load.  Most cities will load with 64 bit systems these days.  Now
> > run the validator.  If you’re lucky there will be no warnings or errors.
> >
> > The ideal way is to use the JOSM todo plugin and look at each error or
> > warning individually.  Remember the map you’re looking at is probably
> > a day old so for some errors you may wish to download that bit again
> > on a new layer before correcting.  Save the file.
> >
> > Now load the file into Maperitive.  Use the command export-tags to
> > export a list of tags in CSV format.  Load this file into a
> > spreadsheet and look through the sorted tag values.  You may find
> > addr:streetnumber rather than addr:housenumber, government misspelt
> > etc.  Once you know what to look for then you can use JOSM to search
> > for the tag and correct.
> >
> > Have fun
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Data Quality and Mapping for the renderer.

[Svavar Kjarrval]

There are also online QA tools which display certain types of errors,
for example Osmose [1] and Keep right [2]. The users who don't have much
computer memory installed could use those types of sites instead.

[1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
[2] http://keepright.at/

- Svavar Kjarrval

On sun 21.ágú 2016 17:18, john whelan wrote:
> Yes I know we shouldn’t but just sometimes it’s nice to think about
> the people who use the maps.  Can we make life a little easier for them?
>
> This post is aimed purely at 64 bit Windows users.  The tools may work
> on other operating systems but I haven’t tried them.  There are other
> tools around.
>
> These days end users like to type something in on their smartphone or
> other device and have something display.  It maybe they are looking
> for a hardware store so what could go wrong?
>
> Locally a mall was mapped on the building outline and the stores were
> added store1=store name, store2 etc.  If you type store1=xyz it will
> be found.  Problem is most users won’t know this and the renderers
> will omit non standard tags.  My preference would be nodes with
> shop=hardware name=xyz and simply adding these to the mall makes it
> all much more usable.
>
> Another example is a double space in a name.  Makes it difficult to
> find but JOSM will warn about this.  Locally a car rental company had
> its name spelt in four different ways, one of which was the same as
> the company’s web site.
>
> How do we find them in our local city?
>
> Step one is download the relevant part of OSM, download.geofabrik.de
>  is one place to find it.
>
> Then we need to cut out just the bit we are interested in. 
> osmconvert64 can do this but unless you have lots of memory and time
> I’d first convert the .pbf file to an .osm file.
>
> You need the longitude and latitude of the area you’re after.  The
> easy way is start JOSM and use the slippy map to define the area.  You
> aren’t going to try to download it, it will be too large.  Click on
> the bounding box tag and that will give you the minimum and maximum
> longitude and latitude you need for osmconvert64.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert#Clipping_based_on_Longitude_and_Latitude
>
> If you get a 1k file you’ve probably got the min and max values the
> wrong way round.
>
> This local file can be loaded into JOSM.  It will probably take time
> to load.  Most cities will load with 64 bit systems these days.  Now
> run the validator.  If you’re lucky there will be no warnings or errors.
>
> The ideal way is to use the JOSM todo plugin and look at each error or
> warning individually.  Remember the map you’re looking at is probably
> a day old so for some errors you may wish to download that bit again
> on a new layer before correcting.  Save the file.
>
> Now load the file into Maperitive.  Use the command export-tags to
> export a list of tags in CSV format.  Load this file into a
> spreadsheet and look through the sorted tag values.  You may find
> addr:streetnumber rather than addr:housenumber, government misspelt
> etc.  Once you know what to look for then you can use JOSM to search
> for the tag and correct.
>
> Have fun
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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