Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
I have tended to use "unclassified" if a country road is not major enough to be a tertiary road, and residential in an industrial or shopping area, even if there are only businesses "residing" there. On 11 December 2011 12:18, mick wrote: > On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:46:50 +1000 > Stephen Hope wrote: > > > On 11 December 2011 11:54, mick wrote: > > > > > > > > In northern Brisbane I have yet to see anything that shows you are > moving > > > into a 50kph default zone. > > > > > > In Queensland the 50kph limit applies to all "built up areas" unless the > > street is marked otherwise. They don't mark the individual areas, though > > they used to have some signs as you entered SE Qld, back when it only > > applied there. They may still have some on the NSW border, they used to. > > They still have the signs at the edges of urban areas but I have yet to > see any notification at the point where you leave the posted 60kph zone and > enter a 50 zone nor do they always have a sign near the intersection where > you turn from one 60 zone to another. Unfortunately if you drop to 50 > INCASE its a 50 zone you stant a very high chance of gaining a landcruiser > or pajaro as a trunk ornament. > > mick > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:46:50 +1000 Stephen Hope wrote: > On 11 December 2011 11:54, mick wrote: > > > > > In northern Brisbane I have yet to see anything that shows you are moving > > into a 50kph default zone. > > > In Queensland the 50kph limit applies to all "built up areas" unless the > street is marked otherwise. They don't mark the individual areas, though > they used to have some signs as you entered SE Qld, back when it only > applied there. They may still have some on the NSW border, they used to. They still have the signs at the edges of urban areas but I have yet to see any notification at the point where you leave the posted 60kph zone and enter a 50 zone nor do they always have a sign near the intersection where you turn from one 60 zone to another. Unfortunately if you drop to 50 INCASE its a 50 zone you stant a very high chance of gaining a landcruiser or pajaro as a trunk ornament. mick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On 11 December 2011 11:54, mick wrote: > > In northern Brisbane I have yet to see anything that shows you are moving > into a 50kph default zone. In Queensland the 50kph limit applies to all "built up areas" unless the street is marked otherwise. They don't mark the individual areas, though they used to have some signs as you entered SE Qld, back when it only applied there. They may still have some on the NSW border, they used to. I was once present when somebody asked a cop what the definition of a built up area was - his answer was they know it when they see it, which wasn't helpful. Some are obvious, it was the border cases that he was being asked about. How big do the housing blocks have to be before an area is not built up any more? The closest he got to a definite answer was that if it had streetlights, then it would be considered built up. But there are edge cases even there. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 08:35:48 +1100 Sam Couter wrote: > Peter Watson wrote: > > I live on a "residential street" that has a 60km/h speed limit > > and so > > this street is not tagged as a residential street. > > Do you agree that it should be tagged residential despite the 60km/h > speed limit? its still a residential street, even with a 60km/h limit > > > It is used as at short cut for people in ajoining suburbs. > > So should it be tertiary? "Rat Run" is a more honest and accurate tag > > > I partly came to this view > > because rural roads were being wrongly tagged with 50km/h speed limits which > > they rarely are. > > The 50km/h speed limit tag was done by a bot, it's often inaccurate and > should be disregarded and/or corrected in these cases. Don't let the > 50km/h tag influence your considerations on whether to tag a road > residential or not. GRR bots, what ever I get involved in some hero bungs in a bot to make arbitrary changes. > > > I have been looking around my suburb but there are no 50km/ > > h signs either so can be tricky to know, especially if tracing. > > In the ACT 50km/h is the default if there are no signs. NSW posts "50 > km/h area" signs around the place to cover all roads within that area. > Not sure about other states that I rarely visit. In any case, you're > right that it's hard to know without some local presence. In northern Brisbane I have yet to see anything that shows you are moving into a 50kph default zone. mick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
Peter Watson wrote: > I live on a "residential street" that has a 60km/h speed limit and > so > this street is not tagged as a residential street. Do you agree that it should be tagged residential despite the 60km/h speed limit? > It is used as at short cut for people in ajoining suburbs. So should it be tertiary? > I partly came to this view > because rural roads were being wrongly tagged with 50km/h speed limits which > they rarely are. The 50km/h speed limit tag was done by a bot, it's often inaccurate and should be disregarded and/or corrected in these cases. Don't let the 50km/h tag influence your considerations on whether to tag a road residential or not. > I have been looking around my suburb but there are no 50km/ > h signs either so can be tricky to know, especially if tracing. In the ACT 50km/h is the default if there are no signs. NSW posts "50 km/h area" signs around the place to cover all roads within that area. Not sure about other states that I rarely visit. In any case, you're right that it's hard to know without some local presence. -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Sam Couter wrote: > Peter Watson wrote: > > I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is > in a > > built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house > blocks > > on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out of > town, > > have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the maxspeed > bot as > > 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These roads often have > > speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be tagged > unclassified. What > > do other mappers think. > > Many urban residential roads have speed limits of 60 or maybe 70km/h. I > think > rural roads with moderately dense residential acre blocks and 80km/h speed > limits are still residential, unless they're also the main route to a > neighbouring town, in which case they're tertiary. > -- > Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au > OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C > > I live on a "residential street" that has a 60km/h speed limit and so this street is not tagged as a residential street. It is used as at short cut for people in ajoining suburbs. Also in industrial areas the speed limit is generally 60Km/h so I don't think they fit the bill. I partly came to this view because rural roads were being wrongly tagged with 50km/h speed limits which they rarely are. I have been looking around my suburb but there are no 50km/h signs either so can be tricky to know, especially if tracing. Peter W ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM, Peter Watson wrote: > I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in > a built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house > blocks on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out > of town, have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the > maxspeed bot as 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These > roads often have speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be tagged > unclassified. What do other mappers think. Given the origins of these terms in the UK, I don't we'll ever come up with a perfect way of applying them here. The term "unclassified" is problematic for obvious reasons. Ultimately, it will really depend on how maps etc interpret them. For what it's worth, the way I use them these days is: 1. Is in a town or suburb 2. Probably has a 60kph or less speed limit 3. Either has houses on it, or is definitely <= 60kph. So other than 60kph roads, the main difference between your rules and mine is that I tag roads in industrial areas as residential. I used to tag them as unclassified, because I couldn't bring myself to call a road in an industrial area "residential". But now I've switched - I think "highway=residential" implies low speeds, and "highway=unclassified" implies higher speeds. I still hesitate a bit for some country roads that have a few houses, but not many. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
Peter Watson wrote: > I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in a > built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house > blocks > on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out of town, > have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the maxspeed bot as > 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These roads often have > speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be tagged unclassified. What > do other mappers think. Many urban residential roads have speed limits of 60 or maybe 70km/h. I think rural roads with moderately dense residential acre blocks and 80km/h speed limits are still residential, unless they're also the main route to a neighbouring town, in which case they're tertiary. -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On 10/12/2011, at 19:39, mick wrote: > On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:10:25 +1000 > Peter Watson wrote: > >> I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in >> a built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house >> blocks on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out >> of town, have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the >> maxspeed bot as 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These >> roads often have speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be >> tagged unclassified. What do other mappers think. >> Peter > I'd prefer highway=rural_road or similar because unclassified seems too much > like incompletely entered, then again I think "highway=" is a bad choice but > its so deeply embedded now. > > mick Agree with both of you. And minor streets in industrial or commercial areas... residential or unclassified? I guess you could say a "residential" way implies certain characteristics - eg 50km/h limit, houses, house numbers, letterboxes, kids running around, a place where people live, etc, but there are plenty of tertiary (and other) ways that have the same "residential" qualities about them. Likewise, why do we not have a "retail" classification for streets in shopping areas? Crazy, but equally valid as residential. Ways should simply be classified by their relative importance. LANDUSE should be the indicator of the type of areas through which they pass! BJ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM, Peter Watson wrote: > I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in > a built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house > blocks on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out > of town, have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the > maxspeed bot as 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These > roads often have speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be tagged > unclassified. What do other mappers think. > Peter I think that is a good criteria and what I generally interpret as a residential road. The wiki page talks about "classification" which I think applies more to the UK that Australia. I wouldn't call the road you describe "residential", but I'm not sure what else would best apply. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:10:25 +1000 Peter Watson wrote: > I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in > a built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house > blocks on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out > of town, have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the > maxspeed bot as 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These > roads often have speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be > tagged unclassified. What do other mappers think. > Peter I'd prefer highway=rural_road or similar because unclassified seems too much like incompletely entered, then again I think "highway=" is a bad choice but its so deeply embedded now. mick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Residential Roads
I have a fairly narrow view on what a residential road is in Aust. 1. Is in a built up area or suburb, 2. Has 50km/h or less speed limit. 3. Has house blocks on at least one side. I find so many roads in the maps which are out of town, have acre blocks or farms on them and have been tagged by the maxspeed bot as 50km/h because they have been tagged residential. These roads often have speedlimits of 60 or higher. I think these should be tagged unclassified. What do other mappers think. Peter ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
