Re: [talk-au] Few questions about tagging ways in Australia
On 10/09/12 12:49, Richard Weait wrote: The "don't copy from other sources" thing is about as close as we have to a Commandment. "Just Don't Do It." It's carved on a stone tablet somewhere. it goes along with, "be nice to each other", "no editwarring", "don't delete the grocery store that competes with the one you own", and "don't add just one little worm t your code just this once because you need the money." It's time to remind people with GPS units that it may be possible to copy existing maps without realizing it. On some units which show maps, there's a "snap to road" feature (by whatever name). If a proprietary map is loaded, such a GPS will try to interpret a deviation of a hundred metres or more as being on the known road. Turn off the "snap to road" feature to avoid copying the existing map. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Few questions about tagging ways in Australia
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Charles Gregory wrote: > Just to play devil's advocate: > > What if someone used Google Street View? "Don't." :-) Firstly, It's copying. We as a community have decided that we don't copy from maps and other sources for which we don't have explicit permission. Secondly, you'll probably find that the terms of service for that product do not permit such use. Third, yes, I know that perhaps somebody once said that it might be okay under certain conditions. It isn't. They didn't. They didn't have the authority to say so. The "don't copy from other sources" thing is about as close as we have to a Commandment. "Just Don't Do It." It's carved on a stone tablet somewhere. it goes along with, "be nice to each other", "no editwarring", "don't delete the grocery store that competes with the one you own", and "don't add just one little worm t your code just this once because you need the money." Just Don't. Now if you have, and you feel bad. (You should) you can fix it and come back into the light. Come to the Data Working Group with the details and get some help. But honest to goodness. Don't. We're not horsing around. There's nothing that you can add to the map that's worth the risk to the project. Plus, every other source is lame anyway. :-) OSM beats 'em all hands down. Map it right. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Few questions about tagging ways in Australia
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > I shouldn't have started this discussion - sorry. Suffice to say: > > 1) OSM policy is not to copy street names from any other source other > than appropriately licensed ones, or from physical street signs. > 2) IMHO, this particular aspect of OSM policy is IMHO excessively > conservative with regards to actual copyright law. IMHO. > > Just to play devil's advocate: What if someone used Google Street View? Regards, Charles ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Few questions about tagging ways in Australia
> 1) OSM policy is not to copy street names from any other source other > than appropriately licensed ones, or from physical street signs. > 2) IMHO, this particular aspect of OSM policy is IMHO excessively > conservative with regards to actual copyright law. IMHO. Australian copyright law recognises that copyright can subsist in compilation of facts. Once copyright subsists, the only test is "substantial part". If everyone copied just one street name, that's around 200,000 street names copied. Is that substantial? In addition to that we have the terms of service that attempt to prevent copying any part of them, specifically prohibiting building a databases of places or listings. In addition to that, we have jurisdictional issues, where OSMF and the servers are in the UK, which has a database right. I don't think the OSM policy is the slightest bit conservative. OSM is in a position to become a commercial threat to private mapping companies. Legal action against OSMF is a arrow in the quiver of any mapping company looking to protect their business. The law is not settled enough for anyone to predict the outcome of such a case with any certainty. It is unclear if OSMF would have the resources to defend such a case, and certainly I've never detected in the OSM community a desire for a role in shaping this legal landscape. Whiter-than-white is the only way for OSM to be. Brett Russell wrote: > Just as an aside, more than a few copyright sources get things wrong plus > even the authorities with the classic being different > spelling of a location on the reverse side if a sign. How do you check this? Exactly. Although street signs can be wrong, confirming with a commercial map provider doesn't provide the definitive answer either. In Australia, there may not even be a definitive answer. However, OSM is a database, and the schema we use is expressive enough to encode this information. > Copyrighting town names does not sound legitimate even on commercial products. You're probably thinking of trademarks. Geographical names have traditionally been hard to get trademarks over. Colorado succeeded, Strathfield, not so much. The Australian Gazetteer from Geoscience Australia is CC-BY. Has anyone checked if they would object to us using this data for this purpose? I'm happy to send them an email to seek permission, if we haven't tried already? Would be a great source to check place names. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Few questions about tagging ways in Australia
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > I disagree in the strongest possible terms. It is not perfectly valid > to use those resources for OpenStreetMap and you are advised in every > reference against using such resources. > > Don't copy anything into OpenStreetMap from any published map or other > source without explicit permission. I shouldn't have started this discussion - sorry. Suffice to say: 1) OSM policy is not to copy street names from any other source other than appropriately licensed ones, or from physical street signs. 2) IMHO, this particular aspect of OSM policy is IMHO excessively conservative with regards to actual copyright law. IMHO. Welcome aboard. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
