Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
On 20/6/21 10:03 am, Adam Horan wrote: /"Lineage: The production process commences with textual matching between the Australia Post database and the attribute fields of the spatial Localities theme of the Administrative Boundaries dataset. Detailed analysis is then required of duplicate named Localities within VIC, NSW, and QLD to ensure that these Localities and their Postcode are neighboured to other Localities with the same Postcode. The next production stage involves the examination and allocation of Postcodes to gazetted Localities that either have no delivery service or have not yet been assigned a Postcode within the Australia Post database. This requires liaison with state-based Postcode controllers and in turn state-based delivery operations. This is an ongoing process and as a result, Postcode Boundaries will always be subject to change according to the needs of delivery operations. Locality boundaries are subsequently Dissolved/Aggregated based on the Postcode attribute. "/ / / They do also say this: /"Postcode Boundaries is produced through a partnership with Australia Post and *provides the official representation of postal delivery areas across Australia*."/ Those two statements are interesting when read together. It does suggest that Australia Post is moving away from postcode boundaries that spilt gazetted localities. Maybe there is so little hand addressed mail now that they can OCR the entire address and code it down to the delivery route level; all the postcode does is differentiate between localities with the same name. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
On 20/6/21 10:03 am, Adam Horan wrote: They do also say this: /"Postcode Boundaries is produced through a partnership with Australia Post and *provides the official representation of postal delivery areas across Australia*."/ I don't understand your point. Are you saying that Australia Post is not getting a cut of the licence fee? Or is this one of those semantic arguments where the problem is I should of said: the local postal service will sell you a copy through their partnership with Geoscape Australia? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
PSMA/Geoscape isn't Australia Post. AusPost will sell you a list of postcodes mapped to Localities, and with a lat/long reference for a single point within the postcode. They don't sell a shapefile. https://postcode.auspost.com.au/product_display.html?id=4 The AusPost sample data is: PCode Locality State Comments Category Longitude Latitude 3000 MELBOURNE VIC Delivery Area 144.9650545 -37.8112625 3001 MELBOURNE VIC GPO Boxes Post Office Boxes 3002 EAST MELBOURNE VIC Delivery Area 144.981347 -37.8154235 3003 WEST MELBOURNE VIC Delivery Area 144.9309505 -37.8105385 3004 MELBOURNE VIC ST KILDA RD DISTRICT Delivery Area 144.9783715 -37.836898 3004 ST KILDA ROAD MELBOURNE VIC CARE PO ONLY Delivery Area 3006 SOUTHBANK VIC Delivery Area 144.9591655 -37.8253635 PSMA/Geoscape will sell you a shapefile, but it's one they've generated by this process. I think it's clear that the PSMA data is interpreted/derived rather than being a definition. However it's likely the most accurate spatial representation of the postcodes. *"Lineage: The production process commences with textual matching between the Australia Post database and the attribute fields of the spatial Localities theme of the Administrative Boundaries dataset. Detailed analysis is then required of duplicate named Localities within VIC, NSW, and QLD to ensure that these Localities and their Postcode are neighboured to other Localities with the same Postcode. The next production stage involves the examination and allocation of Postcodes to gazetted Localities that either have no delivery service or have not yet been assigned a Postcode within the Australia Post database. This requires liaison with state-based Postcode controllers and in turn state-based delivery operations. This is an ongoing process and as a result, Postcode Boundaries will always be subject to change according to the needs of delivery operations. Locality boundaries are subsequently Dissolved/Aggregated based on the Postcode attribute. "* They do also say this: *"Postcode Boundaries is produced through a partnership with Australia Post and provides the official representation of postal delivery areas across Australia."* On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 at 09:35, Andrew Davidson wrote: > On 19/6/21 3:54 am, stevea wrote: > > > In the USA (in OSM) we say rather bluntly "ZIP codes are not > > boundaries." (ZIP codes are USA postcodes). > > The situation in Australia is different. Over here they *are* boundaries > and our local postal service will sell you a copy of them: > > > https://geoscape.com.au/documentation/postcode-boundaries-metadata-statement/ > > The paradox I was referring to is why would I buy a copy? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
On 17/6/21 7:14 pm, Andrew Harvey via Talk-au wrote: This does sound like addr:postcode on each address object is the way to go and correctly capture the postcode of each address. We can still have postal_code's on admin boundaries where the the vast majority of addresses within that boundary have that postcode. Vicmap has post code boundaries for Victoria: https://vgls.sdp.sirsidynix.net.au/client/search/asset/1288956/0 why can't we use those? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
On 19/6/21 3:54 am, stevea wrote: In the USA (in OSM) we say rather bluntly "ZIP codes are not boundaries." (ZIP codes are USA postcodes). The situation in Australia is different. Over here they *are* boundaries and our local postal service will sell you a copy of them: https://geoscape.com.au/documentation/postcode-boundaries-metadata-statement/ The paradox I was referring to is why would I buy a copy? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The Paradox of Postcodes (Was Re: Victorian Vicmap Address Import Proposal - Suburb and Postcode discussion)
On 19/6/21 9:48 am, Ewen Hill wrote: and who sends a letter nowadays ;) You make a good point there. So why are we putting postcodes into OSM? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
