Re: [talk-au] Oceania Community Subcategory Feedback

[Dian Ågesson]

Hello all,

In accordance with the Moderator Selection Criteria [5], there are now 
five days for voting on this proposed new subcategory.


Please, leave your votes here [6].

Dian.

On 2022-10-26 23:05, Dian Ågesson wrote:


Hello Australia and New Zealand lists,

Earlier this month I reached out to gauge interest in an Oceania 
category on the OSM Community [1] page. This effort has progressed and 
the request for the Oceania subcategory is being considered.


Three moderations have been proposed:

* Andrew Davidson (user:TheSwavu [2])
* Sam Wilson (user:Sam Wilson [3])
* Dian Agesson (user:Diacritic [4])

In accordance with the Moderator Selection Criteria [5], there are now 
five days for community discussion on this proposed new subcategory.


Please, leave your comments here [6].

Dian.



Links:
--
[1] https://community.openstreetmap.org/
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheSwavu
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Sam%20Wilson
[4] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Diacritic
[5] 
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/moderator-selection-criteria/2392

[6] https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/oceania-subcategory/4240/5___
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Re: [talk-au] Melbourne - Suburban Rail Loop - Too early to mark as under construction?

[stevea]

Sorry, I meant railway=proposed becoming railway=construction.  The tag 
state=proposed is something used (I do so frequently) in other routes besides 
route=railway relations, like route=bicycle relations.  I apologize for any 
confusion.
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Re: [talk-au] Melbourne - Suburban Rail Loop - Too early to mark as under construction?

[stevea]

Catching up on this thread (a bit on the late side, just upgraded macOS from 
Monterey to Ventura) I could say a lot.

In short, I think you've got it right tagging construction=* when you get 
actual digging, paving, power-poles and laying of rail.  I like "well, we've 
got road closures already..." meaning that "we're under construction," that 
sounds right.  And as a segue, "construction" means "funded," what I consider a 
crucial aspect for any project, and anybody rolling backhoes or paving rollers 
is getting paid to do so by a project manager and authority with money for 
paychecks and material.

Where I could say a lot more is when you might say state=proposed.  (When to 
make the transition from tagging "proposed" to "construction" is about as easy 
as reading the previous paragraph).  A shorter version is that OSM is OK with 
tagging state=proposed when "there is funding for the project."  Yet, a LOT 
more than that in OSM gets tagged state=proposed (maybe on the up-and-up, maybe 
somebody needs to redact that tag or some ways).

For example, see the section in our wiki [1] about California's High Speed Rail 
project (the USA's biggest public works project at about US$100 billion and 
controversial / a political hot potato in every way imaginable, although it's 
gotten much better in the last few months as funding gets more certain and 
Phase 1 enters a sort of "middle").  While there were always Phase 1 and Phase 
2, in 2019 (with a new Governor elected) and especially 2020-2 (with COVID), 
the project has been "re-defined" in ways that both explain the delays, cost 
overruns, pandemic pauses, and also break apart Phase 1 into Phase 1a and Phase 
1b in a way that's hard to explain.  The table in the wiki tries to do this, 
and also tries to explain how actual "rail under construction" and "rail 
proposed" differ, mainly by "whether it's funded," but there are aspects of 
"did this pass environmental review" (most of it has), "did this complete 
design work prior to construction" (1b North and 1b South are IN design now), 
and if those two hurdles have been jumped, did it go out to public bidding and 
was a bid actually tendered by the Authority?  For this project, and to keep 
OSM feathers from getting ruffled, we seem to have consensus that it's OK to 
put state=proposed on 1a and 1b, even though they are not quite yet funded (but 
are in design, which is right before bids for funding go out, and the money is 
"more or less promised by the state to be there") — there is odd history.  So, 
"proposed" can be complicated before construction — it certainly is on 
California High Speed Rail.  BTW, expect to start riding this train around 2030 
(Phase 1a "Interim" service), 2031 or so for the initial San Francisco to Los 
Angeles service.

But "construction" is pretty much "are crews constructing?"  Yeah.

Thanks for reading.

[1] 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/California/Railroads/Passenger#California_High_Speed_Rail_(passenger=regional)_trains_(CAHSR),_under_construction
 

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