Re: [talk-au] Question about using NSW Speed Zone Data in OSM

[Andrew Harvey]

No objections from me. They haven't responded yet, and from everything we
can tell they imported the data without any other cross checks and didn't
follow the import guidelines.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 at 22:00, Mark Pulley  wrote:

> I’ve got some spare time (having caught up with the surveys from my last
> holidays), so I can go through these and revert them. Any objections?
>
> Mark P.
>
> On 9 Feb 2024, at 9:57 am, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
>
> We do have permissions to use this data it's listed in
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Data_Sources#New_South_Wales,
> however from looking at their changeset history, it looks like
>
> 1. They are conducting an import by en-mass blindly adding and replacing
> existing data with the imported data
> 2. They may be engaging in directed mapping (being employed to make these
> changes), since their changesets are all the same, importing speed limits,
> except for one Local Knowledge changeset
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/131210459 in India.
>
> If they want to conduct an import like this, they need to go through the
> proper process, so based on and the issues you've rased it should be fine
> to revert all their affected changes and then ask going forward to go
> through the import guidelines
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_guidelines.
>
>
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 at 21:32, Mark Pulley  wrote:
>
>> Does the NSW Government Speed Zone data have a licence suitable for
>> importing into OSM? Also, is it generally accurate?
>> https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/speed-zones
>>
>> https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/road-segment-data-from-datansw
>>
>> The reason I ask is that I recently came across a few roads with speed
>> zones updated based on this data. The biggest problem is that the changes
>> made in these three changesets were incorrect (i.e. the previously surveyed
>> maxspeeds were updated from this data, but on survey in December 2023 the
>> original surveyed maxspeed was the correct one).
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129760120
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129759614
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129759603
>>
>> Other changesets have been made based on this data, but I haven’t checked
>> the accuracy of them.
>>
>> Mark P.
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

[forster]

Hi

Its OK by me. The park ranger who appears to be most connected to this 
has been contacted and invited into our discussion. What more can we do? 
Its unfortunatee that a slow motion edit war will be the likely outcome.


Tony





In that case, should I go ahead now with the revert?

Mark P.


On 9 Feb 2024, at 6:23 am, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

No, nothing that I have heard.
Tony

Just following up on this - has there been any further input from
National Parks regarding these paths?

Mark P.

On 3 Jan 2024, at 3:28 pm, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

Hi

I was able to talk to the Parks ranger for this park. He identified
himself as Patrick and I have his calling phone number which I
would share off list.

He identified himself as having deleted trails from Open Street
Map. But that does not necessarily mean they are the same trails
that Mark is reverting.

He was definite that the trails that he deleted did not exist on
the ground, not  just that they were unauthorised or social or
illegal.

I encouraged him to join the discussion here.

Tony

I?ve prepared a partial revert for Apsley Falls, ready for upload.
(Keeping the trail near the cliff, leaving the eastern  non-visible
trail deleted)

Any objections / changes before I go ahead?

Mark P.


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Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

[Mark Pulley]

In that case, should I go ahead now with the revert?

Mark P.

> On 9 Feb 2024, at 6:23 am, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
> 
> No, nothing that I have heard.
> Tony
> 
> 
>> Just following up on this - has there been any further input from  National 
>> Parks regarding these paths?
>> 
>> Mark P.
>> 
>>> On 3 Jan 2024, at 3:28 pm, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I was able to talk to the Parks ranger for this park. He identified  
>>> himself as Patrick and I have his calling phone number which I  would share 
>>> off list.
>>> 
>>> He identified himself as having deleted trails from Open Street  Map. But 
>>> that does not necessarily mean they are the same trails  that Mark is 
>>> reverting.
>>> 
>>> He was definite that the trails that he deleted did not exist on  the 
>>> ground, not  just that they were unauthorised or social or  illegal.
>>> 
>>> I encouraged him to join the discussion here.
>>> 
>>> Tony
>>> 
 I?ve prepared a partial revert for Apsley Falls, ready for upload.   
 (Keeping the trail near the cliff, leaving the eastern  non-visible  trail 
 deleted)
 
 Any objections / changes before I go ahead?
 
 Mark P.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Question about using NSW Speed Zone Data in OSM

[Mark Pulley]

I’ve got some spare time (having caught up with the surveys from my last 
holidays), so I can go through these and revert them. Any objections?

Mark P.

> On 9 Feb 2024, at 9:57 am, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
> 
> We do have permissions to use this data it's listed in 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Data_Sources#New_South_Wales, 
> however from looking at their changeset history, it looks like
> 
> 1. They are conducting an import by en-mass blindly adding and replacing 
> existing data with the imported data
> 2. They may be engaging in directed mapping (being employed to make these 
> changes), since their changesets are all the same, importing speed limits, 
> except for one Local Knowledge changeset 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/131210459 in India.
> 
> If they want to conduct an import like this, they need to go through the 
> proper process, so based on and the issues you've rased it should be fine to 
> revert all their affected changes and then ask going forward to go through 
> the import guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_guidelines.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 at 21:32, Mark Pulley  > wrote:
>> Does the NSW Government Speed Zone data have a licence suitable for 
>> importing into OSM? Also, is it generally accurate?
>> https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/speed-zones
>> https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/road-segment-data-from-datansw
>> 
>> The reason I ask is that I recently came across a few roads with speed zones 
>> updated based on this data. The biggest problem is that the changes made in 
>> these three changesets were incorrect (i.e. the previously surveyed 
>> maxspeeds were updated from this data, but on survey in December 2023 the 
>> original surveyed maxspeed was the correct one). 
>> 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129760120
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129759614
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/129759603
>> 
>> Other changesets have been made based on this data, but I haven’t checked 
>> the accuracy of them.
>> 
>> Mark P.
>> 
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