Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. And the decliners have made the choice not to relicense their contributions. Both statements are true. Both parties could have made a different choice, that would have led to those contributions still being part of the OSM database. Now that the decisions have been made, the trenches have been dug, and there is absolutely no possibility of anyone changing their mind: could all the decliners please just go away already? Jumping in on these threads is just hampering our project. A project you're not part of anymore, regrettably. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
On 28/06/2012 10:28 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. Now that the decisions have been made, the trenches have been dug, and there is absolutely no possibility of anyone changing their mind: could all the decliners please just go away already? ___ What an excellent idea! I've just found out how to unsubscribe from this list, and there seems to be a way to unsubscribe from OSM as well. I am getting tired of having my inbox filled with e-mails that amount to classroom bullying, simply because I choose not to agree with the way the new CT's were pushed. Richard C. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 5:50 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: I accepted the new conditions as soon as the Nearmap people gave the nod to do so. And I continue to contribute to OSM, having no interest in the alternatives. Me too. But my contributions are half-hearted now to say the least. That's I've slowed down too, mostly due to the sheer disappointment of knowing data will be removed, and being a bit uncertain about exactly what data that is. But I never hear back. I leave it to you to draw your own conclusions about the honesty, integrity and competence of the people in charge. Which people in charge do you mean - moderators of this list? Who are they? Perhaps they'd like to introduce themselves. I haven't seen much evidence of dishonesty or lack of integrity - they probably just forget to clear the list backlog, or prefer not to actually explain why they reject mails. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
I've been asked the question if there is a way non-Australian based armchair mappers can help with heading towards CT cleaner version of the database prior to the redaction process in Australia. I have a few suggestions, based on some of the remapping activities I am doing. Obviously there will be a need for some areas to be comprehensively resurveyed, but in the meantime I think there are some useful activities to be done on the current database. *1. Coastline* Although most of the coastline ways are now owned by agreers, many of the nodes comprising them are not. In some areas this make the coastline quite inaccurate if these nodes are removed, and it needs realigning. AGRI and bing imagery are usually quite adequate for this. Sydney to Melbourne coast is just about done last time I looked, but Queensland and WA was still a bit of a disaster. Keep a look out for small islands, which could disappear without trace. * Is there any point in doing this if we are going to reimport the ABS data again?* I personally doubt we will ever use the ABS data extensively for coastline data again. Most parts of the coastline are better than ABS quality now, and I can't see us aligning them to worse quality data. Never-say-never though. *2. Inlets Beaches *Many inlets, beaches, lagoons and coastal streams are still not CT clean. Again, these are usually easily mapped from AGRI and/or Bing. *3. ABS2006 overloaded ways* If ways are v1 owner ABS2006 and have no tags other than boundary tags then they can be deleted, as ABS2006 boundaries are now beyond any form of recovery. If they have tags that have been added, such as waterways, highways, etc, and this information has been added by an agreer, then we are about to lose data, so we should make an attempt to preserve it. A crafted JOSM search locates these ways fairly easily. Most of these ways can be recreated by using the bing and/or AGRI. Even creating a short way can save some of the info. Most ABS2006 ways have been deleted, but there are still over 8000 modified in some way. If you recreate the way, delete the ABS2006 way. * Is it useful to recreate rivers, streams, etc that are based on ABS2006 if we are going to reimport ABS2011?* The ABS data doesn't contain features, only boundaries. It just so happens that many Australian boundaries align with other features. Much of this was done when the imagery across Australia wasn't as extensive as Bing or AGRI, and in 90% of cases it is possible to map these features better without using the ABS data. ** *4. Roundabouts* There are literally thousands of roundabouts created by non-agreers. Most are clearly able to be created from Bing. Sydney and Brisbane are probably the biggest problem areas here. * is it useful to recreate roundabouts if the streets leading to them may still be redacted?* I think so, yes. The roundabout has to be recreated sometime, and recreating them en-mass seems like a worthwhile activity to me. It certainly speeds remapping a way if the roundabouts are already there. After any redaction, and unconnected roundabout will quickly send us looking for the street. *5. Split Streets* With the wtfe background in josm it is easy to spot split streets where a section is owned by a non-agreer. Often this happens in speed zones, school zones, and around roundabouts and intersections. If the agreer section of the way is older, then you can reverse the effect of the split, and redraw the way from imagery. *6. Long highways *There are still long distance freeways and highways split with sections of non-agreement and agreement. Often these can be filled satisfactorily from aerial imagery. Wikipedia information can often be useful for quick fact checking on major highways. *7. Railways* There are many railways, platforms, stations that are nonCT, especially outside of the city centres. Wikipedia can be used for fact checking, making it usually straightforward to map railway features from Bing/AGRI. *8. Mixed tags* Many objects have mixed licensing on tags. I find a quick way to check for this just clicking on red wtfe marked features in JOSM, and seeing which have a CT agreer as the last edit. Check the history of these objects to see if the tags were added by an agreer. Delete the original feature and replace with another containing the rescued information. Sure we lose some info right now, but we save more in the long run. *Disclaimer: I offer no opinion on the copyright and licence status of the database after following these processes. I can see the full gamut of possibilities under AU law, from the database being always CC-BY-SA unless starting over, to copyright not even subsisting in a database of semi-anonymous group contributed facts. My attempt here is to respect, within reason and as far as the tools allow, some people's desire to remove their data from a project heading in a different direction to their wishes.*
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com wrote: group contributed facts. My attempt here is to respect, within reason and as far as the tools allow, some people's desire to remove their data from a project heading in a different direction to their wishes. Stop saying this! This is just not true. It seems like most of the people on this list continue to miss the bloody point! My contributions are still available under CC-BY-SA, just as they always were. I haven't changed my mind, nor am I excluding any of my contributions from OSM. It's not even possible for me to do so, since CC-BY-SA is irrevocable. OSM has made the choice to exclude my contributions. That's really important, so I'll say it again: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. If I could say it louder I would. Hopefully it'll evetually sink in. OSM may include my contributions at any time simply by adhering to the license they were contributed under, CC-BY-SA. -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
Hi Sam, With 15% odd of the data in Australia perhaps about to be lost from OSM, you don't need to shout. You're data is licenced as it always was. OSM is changing. I get it. However, for those moving with the OSM project, there is some remapping to be done, so that is the topic of this discussion. Thanks, Ian. On 28 June 2012 08:34, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: ... My contributions are still available under CC-BY-SA, just as they always were. I haven't changed my mind, nor am I excluding any of my contributions from OSM. It's not even possible for me to do so, since CC-BY-SA is irrevocable. OSM has made the choice to exclude my contributions. That's really important, so I'll say it again: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. If I could say it louder I would. Hopefully it'll evetually sink in. OSM may include my contributions at any time simply by adhering to the license they were contributed under, CC-BY-SA. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
+1 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
