Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 19:22 +0800, 4x4falcon wrote: > On 01/12/10 18:46, Andrew Laughton wrote: > >> you must use the imagery as presented in the API, you cannot modify or > >> edit the > >> imagery, > > This part implies that you cannot use it as a layer, by "modifying" > > the imagery with map overlays. > > > No, it means you can not modify the original imagery. (or use it in any way other than as presented by the API) Does this mean you can only load (and trace) the images in this SilverLight app? Does it mean that a TMS/WMS layer cannot be setup, even to re-write URLs? > If you trace the imagery you are creating a new image and therefore are > not modifying the original image. If you put an overlay on-top, this does modify the original image. Unless they mean its illegal to gain access to their servers, and actually modify their original images, Im trying to see what other meaning this could have. What about resizing the images? I know merkaartor for example loads background images with a custom zoom, so it often scales images to properly fit the resolution being used, is this now against MS's rules? All these things REALLY matter now. With groups like NearMap, if we broke the letter of the licence, while still following the spirit of the licence, they'd overlook it or seek to fix their licence. If the same happens with Microsoft, I dont see MS saying "oh well, you followed the freeness of the licence, it doesnt matter if you breached our terms". The sole reason theyve gotten so large as a company, is due to the creation (and enforcement) of licences that benefit them in favour of another party. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 01/12/10 18:46, Andrew Laughton wrote: There are not that many words here, so it should be harder to go astray, but the following lines present problems; you must use the imagery as presented in the API, you cannot modify or edit the imagery, This part implies that you cannot use it as a layer, by "modifying" the imagery with map overlays. No, it means you can not modify the original imagery. If you trace the imagery you are creating a new image and therefore are not modifying the original image. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
There are not that many words here, so it should be harder to go astray, but the following lines present problems; >you must use the imagery as presented in the API, you cannot modify or edit the > imagery, This part implies that you cannot use it as a layer, by "modifying" the imagery with map overlays. >...all of your updates to OSM arising out of the application must be shared >with OSM, ... Did whoever write this read what they wrote ? How does one update OSM without sharing it ? talk-au@openstreetmap.org On 1 December 2010 10:33, John Smith wrote: > This post seems to indicate the legal issues have been sorted out, and > the terms the imagery can be used under: > > http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Opengeodata/~3/kukbUtOllso/microsoft-imagery-details > > I also started making a relation showing areas that Bing covers for Australia: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=1291579 > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
This post seems to indicate the legal issues have been sorted out, and the terms the imagery can be used under: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Opengeodata/~3/kukbUtOllso/microsoft-imagery-details I also started making a relation showing areas that Bing covers for Australia: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=1291579 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > Excellent. The thought does occur that if one used "source=bing", and > started tracing now, and for some reason the legal agreement didn't > eventuate, it would be easy to simply wipe all that data. But that > would be making life complicated, I suppose. Please don't do this until the legal matters are sorted out. OSM is a database of CC BY-SA data, not (CC BY-SA + some data which soon be CC BY-SA). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: > It's quite possible that they might end up saying - yes it can be > done, but not in certain areas, or some similar restriction. They get > imagery from a range of suppliers, and would have to check that they > are not breaking any contracts by allowing this. If they got to the Good point. > I've had a look at some areas in Queensland - not as detailed as the > nearmap imagery, but pretty good, and covers at least some areas I'm > interested in that nearmap doesn't. I did a quick check on the roads > layer, and they have some of the same non-existent roads marked that > Google maps and my GPS do, so they must all be sourcing it from the > same database. I suspect the roads may have been gazetted, but never > built. And not likely to either, the terrain is terrible for a road, > and there's no need for it. Yeah, Google and Bing share the same source for much of rural Australia. I've sometimes used Bing just because I like their styling a bit better. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 26 November 2010 08:57, Steve Bennett wrote: > Excellent. The thought does occur that if one used "source=bing", and > started tracing now, and for some reason the legal agreement didn't > eventuate, it would be easy to simply wipe all that data. But that > would be making life complicated, I suppose. It's quite possible that they might end up saying - yes it can be done, but not in certain areas, or some similar restriction. They get imagery from a range of suppliers, and would have to check that they are not breaking any contracts by allowing this. If they got to the point where they had agreement for a large portion of the world, they may decide to proceed in those areas without waiting for the remainder to be sorted out. I've had a look at some areas in Queensland - not as detailed as the nearmap imagery, but pretty good, and covers at least some areas I'm interested in that nearmap doesn't. I did a quick check on the roads layer, and they have some of the same non-existent roads marked that Google maps and my GPS do, so they must all be sourcing it from the same database. I suspect the roads may have been gazetted, but never built. And not likely to either, the terrain is terrible for a road, and there's no need for it. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
Luke W. (lakeyboy) wrote: > Is there already a usable URL out there that can > be put into Potlatch 2 or other editors? You could in theory use Bing right now in Potlatch 2 if you run your own instance, but although the code's been written, none of the public instances (Geowiki, MapQuest, or even random.dev) currently offer Bing as an option. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/MS-imagery-tp5772885p5775813.html Sent from the Australia mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
How are some people already claiming to be tracing? From what i've seen, international users are already tracing their coverage areas. I thought that Bing uses a different url to the standard whatever.com/xyz that our editors (and NearMap) support. Is there already a usable URL out there that can be put into Potlatch 2 or other editors? And on a related note, I've started to note coverage areas on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bing/Coverage#Australia ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > Actually all editors are ready to go as soon as we know the legal > circumstances. So people will be able to use their favorite editors to > access Bing imagery. That said, until we have the legalese, we should avoid > tracing on the data, as we really don't want to end up in a situation where > we might be infringing. Excellent. The thought does occur that if one used "source=bing", and started tracing now, and for some reason the legal agreement didn't eventuate, it would be easy to simply wipe all that data. But that would be making life complicated, I suppose. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 07:21, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:41:04 +1000 > Stephen Hope wrote: > > > Planning to enable access is not the same as enabling access. So, at > > the moment, we can't use it. > > Merkaartor is ready to go, as soon as the legalities are OK. > > from Merkaartor list > >> I guess we need a good way to use the Bing photos in Merkaartor now. > >> Or can we already? Some insight can be found here: > >> http%3A%2F%2Fmsdn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Flibrary%2Fbb259689.aspx > >> > >> Preliminary (as we actually have no idea of what will be allowed, > >> yet) > > version of Bing Maps plugin is in GIT. > > A snapshot including that was uploaded to Debian experimental some > minutes ago. > > Actually all editors are ready to go as soon as we know the legal circumstances. So people will be able to use their favorite editors to access Bing imagery. That said, until we have the legalese, we should avoid tracing on the data, as we really don't want to end up in a situation where we might be infringing. As for the timeframe, from what I have been told, it is a matter of weeks than months as they have been looking into the issue for some time. I tweeted at the State Of the Map conference (back in July) pointing out that Bing was looking into the issue (I had asked the Bing guy) so I suspect we will have a clear answer soon. Emily Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:41:04 +1000 Stephen Hope wrote: > Planning to enable access is not the same as enabling access. So, at > the moment, we can't use it. Merkaartor is ready to go, as soon as the legalities are OK. from Merkaartor list >> I guess we need a good way to use the Bing photos in Merkaartor now. >> Or can we already? Some insight can be found here: >> http%3A%2F%2Fmsdn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Flibrary%2Fbb259689.aspx >> >> Preliminary (as we actually have no idea of what will be allowed, >> yet) > version of Bing Maps plugin is in GIT. A snapshot including that was uploaded to Debian experimental some minutes ago. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 13:20, Grant Slater wrote: > On 25 November 2010 03:00, John Smith wrote: >> There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are >> claiming they can't. > > Interesting choice of words. I think you'll find there are two separate "they"s in this sentence; the first one is Microsoft, the other they is the OSM tool builders. Read like that it makes more sense. Planning to enable access is not the same as enabling access. So, at the moment, we can't use it. Once the official announcement (with any conditions, attribution required, limitations in area or other things I can't think of at the moment) is made, we'll know more. It being Thanksgiving week, I'd say next week at the earliest, and if they have to run things through lawyers or layers of management for sign-off first it could take months. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 13:20, Grant Slater wrote: > On 25 November 2010 03:00, John Smith wrote: >> On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett wrote: >>> landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be >>> mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. >> >> There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are >> claiming they can't. > > Interesting choice of words. You wrote a lot, but there didn't seem to be any more substance than what I put in a single sentence ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 03:00, John Smith wrote: > On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett wrote: >> landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be >> mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. > > There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are > claiming they can't. Interesting choice of words. http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2010/11/23/bing-engages-open-maps-community.aspx "As a first step in this engagement, we plan to enable access to Bing's global orthorectified aerial imagery, as a backdrop of OSM editors" Or Steve's blog: http://blog.stevecoast.com/im-working-at-microsoft-and-were-donating-ima "... Microsoft is donating access to it's global orthorectified aerial imagery to help OpenStreetMappers make the map even better than it already is." Today and tomorrow are public holidays in the USA. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett wrote: > landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be > mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are claiming they can't. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] MS imagery
MS allowing imagery to be used is great news, particularly in the (temporary?) absence of Nearmap: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1602/how-can-i-use-microsofts-aerial-imagery-in-potlatch Having a quick skim in one area, they obviously don't have the detail of Nearmap but it's still perfectly usable for tracing streets, landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. Woot. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
