Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au]

Oh, can't believe we missed it on our way to Port Arthur!

Next time. Use the National Park south of it as an excuse.

Now that I think of it, I expect the highest densities of named houses 
to be along the coast. Back in France, in the beach town we'd spend some 
of our summers in, most houses would have a name. And on Minjerribah, 
most houses in Mooloomba / Point Lookout would have a name. Might have 
to do with if they are available for rent or not.


Cheers

On 6/2/22 21:50, Warin wrote:



On 6/2/22 00:23, Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au wrote:


I used to use addr:housename heavily to tag any building name, 
especially houses and apartment blocks, but I tend to just use the 
"name" key now when tagging residential buildings, maybe just because 
it's more readily available in the presets...


I like the idea of "addr:housename" being specifically about the 
/building/ itself though. Others think that it should be used /only 
/if it is commonly used in the postal address of the place. As you 
can see, it has been debated for more than a decade: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:addr#addr:housename_vs._name


I do think that they could be both used on the same feature 
sometimes: some buildings have a specific, historical name (which 
might be engraved in stone, or shown on a small plaque) but are known 
as something different because of what they currently house (a 
business, a museum...). The latter would be the more obvious name, 
often with a bigger, more recent sign on the facade or at the top, 
and I would therefore tag it with the "name" key, which gets 
prioritised by most renderers.


I actually enjoy mapping that kind of information a lot, I find it 
culturally very interesting and always wonder where the name came 
from. And whenever I see a name that is not in OSM, I get a bit 
excited. I had some fun with making a map of building names in the 
Kurilpa peninsula a while ago: 
https://web.library.uq.edu.au/files/125535/Water_themed_building_names.pdf


For that map, when I processed the data, I prioritised addr:housename 
values over name values because I was interested in building names 
and wanted to remove potential business names.


And I reckon everyone should name their home if they feel like it!



Do town is for you!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo_Town


Unfortunately these are not mapped in OSM, I have put in the building 
footprints, but the names are not available .. tastrax mapillary is 
pointed forwards so the names don't show up there ..



___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


--
Stéphane Guillou
http://stragu.gitlab.io/

You can encrypt our communications by using OpenPGP. My public key 4E211060 is 
available on the keys.gnupg.net server.

Other ways to interact with me are listed on my contact 
page:http://stragu.gitlab.io/contact/
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Warin]

On 6/2/22 00:23, Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au wrote:


I used to use addr:housename heavily to tag any building name, 
especially houses and apartment blocks, but I tend to just use the 
"name" key now when tagging residential buildings, maybe just because 
it's more readily available in the presets...


I like the idea of "addr:housename" being specifically about the 
/building/ itself though. Others think that it should be used /only 
/if it is commonly used in the postal address of the place. As you can 
see, it has been debated for more than a decade: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:addr#addr:housename_vs._name


I do think that they could be both used on the same feature sometimes: 
some buildings have a specific, historical name (which might be 
engraved in stone, or shown on a small plaque) but are known as 
something different because of what they currently house (a business, 
a museum...). The latter would be the more obvious name, often with a 
bigger, more recent sign on the facade or at the top, and I would 
therefore tag it with the "name" key, which gets prioritised by most 
renderers.


I actually enjoy mapping that kind of information a lot, I find it 
culturally very interesting and always wonder where the name came 
from. And whenever I see a name that is not in OSM, I get a bit 
excited. I had some fun with making a map of building names in the 
Kurilpa peninsula a while ago: 
https://web.library.uq.edu.au/files/125535/Water_themed_building_names.pdf


For that map, when I processed the data, I prioritised addr:housename 
values over name values because I was interested in building names and 
wanted to remove potential business names.


And I reckon everyone should name their home if they feel like it!



Do town is for you!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo_Town


Unfortunately these are not mapped in OSM, I have put in the building 
footprints, but the names are not available .. tastrax mapillary is 
pointed forwards so the names don't show up there ..
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au]

I used to use addr:housename heavily to tag any building name, 
especially houses and apartment blocks, but I tend to just use the 
"name" key now when tagging residential buildings, maybe just because 
it's more readily available in the presets...


I like the idea of "addr:housename" being specifically about the 
/building/ itself though. Others think that it should be used /only /if 
it is commonly used in the postal address of the place. As you can see, 
it has been debated for more than a decade: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:addr#addr:housename_vs._name


I do think that they could be both used on the same feature sometimes: 
some buildings have a specific, historical name (which might be engraved 
in stone, or shown on a small plaque) but are known as something 
different because of what they currently house (a business, a 
museum...). The latter would be the more obvious name, often with a 
bigger, more recent sign on the facade or at the top, and I would 
therefore tag it with the "name" key, which gets prioritised by most 
renderers.


I actually enjoy mapping that kind of information a lot, I find it 
culturally very interesting and always wonder where the name came from. 
And whenever I see a name that is not in OSM, I get a bit excited. I had 
some fun with making a map of building names in the Kurilpa peninsula a 
while ago: 
https://web.library.uq.edu.au/files/125535/Water_themed_building_names.pdf


For that map, when I processed the data, I prioritised addr:housename 
values over name values because I was interested in building names and 
wanted to remove potential business names.


And I reckon everyone should name their home if they feel like it!

Cheers

On 5/2/22 20:29, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 9:55 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:

Interesting photo of one house in that article:
https://www.houzz.com.au/photos/summerlees-a-living-piece-of-australian-history-traditional-garden-sydney-phvw-vp~7570749

Address out the front is 219 over 7207?

Never seen an Aussie numbering scheme like that before?


219 was probably the old number before they introduced the new rural
addressing system in NSW. Later photos only have the new number:

https://goo.gl/maps/abXKsz9oRohAk4nZ9

and a different spelling

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


--
Stéphane Guillou
http://stragu.gitlab.io/

You can encrypt our communications by using OpenPGP. My public key 4E211060 is 
available on the keys.gnupg.net server.

Other ways to interact with me are listed on my contact 
page:http://stragu.gitlab.io/contact/
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Andrew Davidson]

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 9:55 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> Interesting photo of one house in that article:
> https://www.houzz.com.au/photos/summerlees-a-living-piece-of-australian-history-traditional-garden-sydney-phvw-vp~7570749
>
> Address out the front is 219 over 7207?
>
> Never seen an Aussie numbering scheme like that before?
>

219 was probably the old number before they introduced the new rural
addressing system in NSW. Later photos only have the new number:

https://goo.gl/maps/abXKsz9oRohAk4nZ9

and a different spelling

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 22:18, Michael Collinson  wrote:

> in Ireland a "descriptive" address "The blue house called Bob, on the
> other side of the stream in the village of Inverkeith" is also formally
> acceptable - this is rare globally though.
>

Way back in Telecom days, so ~ early 80s, I spotted info on somebody's
phone service, which had their address listed as "the first driveway on the
right after the big Ghost Gum, 500m past the Rock Pools, Currumbin Creek
Rd, Currumbin Valley"
Here's Currumbin Creek Rd:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/576351#map=13/-28.2019/153.4181,
& the Rock Pools https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-28.2075/153.3878
I've driven past there several times, looked for the big Ghost Gum, & said
Yep, *that* would be their driveway!

>
> https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/how-to-name-your-house-stsetivw-vs~50717452
>
Interesting photo of one house in that article:
https://www.houzz.com.au/photos/summerlees-a-living-piece-of-australian-history-traditional-garden-sydney-phvw-vp~7570749

Address out the front is 219 over 7207?

Never seen an Aussie numbering scheme like that before?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Michael Collinson]

> If I go to Officeworks and get a sign printed with the name "Bob" and 
put it on my letterbox, does that become the name of my house?


An interesting question which begs another question, what is an address? 
(warning: a bit of a philosophical ramble on a Friday night).


My global analysis so far suggests that there are basically three: 
POSTAL (so the postal service is usually involved), CADESTRAL (the 
building plot as defined by the local government and/or land 
registration body) and "HABITUAL" which is actually very powerful: if 
your Officeworks sign remains for long enough, the postman will find it 
even if not formally sanctioned by the postal service. Interestingly, in 
Ireland a "descriptive" address "The blue house called Bob, on the other 
side of the stream in the village of Inverkeith" is also formally 
acceptable - this is rare globally though.


Following a similar thread in the UK, it is evident that we don't have a 
clear definition in OSM for the addr: namespace and that makes things 
like tagging a house name a matter of debate and localisation. In Sweden 
where I usually live, properties have two completely different 
addresses: a formal postal address (always just road, house number, 
formal postal area (i.e. a city/town/village), post code) and a title 
deed "cadestral" address (unique block name, block number, block number 
subdivision number) which is used by the local council and the tax 
office. We use the postal format in the addr: namespace and again there 
is recent debate on whether addr:name is relevant.


From that perspective it looks like Australia is similar with the 
postal service and your local council being separate authorative sources 
but, unlike Sweden, they use overlapping nomenclature. The following is 
not a primary source so I would be more than curious to know if anyone 
has a more formal answer:


https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/how-to-name-your-house-stsetivw-vs~50717452

*"Make it legal*
You can call your home any name you want, but if you want to register it 
as its official address, contact your local council and postal service. 
They will ascertain if the name is already taken in the area or if there 
are restrictions on removing an existing name. They’ll even disallow 
rude names! You’ll still require a street or road number attached to 
your address, though."


Mike

On 2022-02-04 19:48, Dian Ågesson wrote:


Genuine question:

If I go to Officeworks and get a sign printed with the name "Bob" and 
put it on my letterbox, does that become the name of my house?



On 2022-02-04 06:31, Warin wrote:



On 4/2/22 17:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

I've always listed the name of units & so on just as name=*.



+1

No longer used as the address, used 2 centuries ago.



Thanks
Graeme

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 16:14, Mat Attlee > wrote:


Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that
had a street number but also a house name, as just above the
entrance and door number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is
should this be tagged as the name or addr:housename? I know the
latter is common in the UK though I couldn't find anything about
best practice in Australia.



___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-auBEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
EMAIL;PREF=1:m...@ayeltd.biz
EMAIL:mike.collin...@ticketebo.com.au
FN:Michael Collinson
N:Collinson;Michael;;;
TEL;TYPE=work;VALUE=TEXT:+61 491 086 207
TEL;TYPE=cell;VALUE=TEXT:+46 73 581 22 19
X-MOZILLA-HTML;VALUE=BOOLEAN:TRUE
UID:fd70790f-e54a-1b4d-a9e3-7ea6b0059431
END:VCARD
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[stevea]

On Feb 4, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Dian Ågesson  wrote:
> Genuine question:
> 
> If I go to Officeworks and get a sign printed with the name "Bob" and put it 
> on my letterbox, does that become the name of my house?

I would think this is an EXCEEDINGLY "locally variable" question (and answer).

To wit:

I once lived at a house, in a city, with a post office, in a country with a 
postal service, that had a three digit address.  There was a "granny unit" 
(called an "auxiliary dwelling unit" in local California real estate / zoning 
parlance) in the backyard where a couple lived (they necessarily shared 
utilities with the "main house," but it was like a little cottage, completely 
separate from the main house, but built on a different foundation on the same 
property parcel).  At a certain point, to avoid both confusion and mix-up and 
to offer some additional privacy (as to where certain people's mail was coming 
from), a new mailbox appeared on the porch (next to the other mailbox for the 
main house where a group of us university students shared housing in our 
salad-days of under- and graduate-school semi-poverty).  This new mailbox was 
labelled (somewhat amateurishly by one the couple in the backyard cottage with 
the three digits of the house number, likely designated by either the city, the 
post office or both a century or so ago (old Victorian-style house from the 
early 20th-century), plus the figure "1/2" (one-half).

During the time I lived there, the garage was converted into a living space 
(likely illegally, i.e. without proper permits), and once again, a new (third) 
mailbox appeared at the cluster of the previous two, this time, with the three 
digits of the main house's address, a hyphen and the capital letter A.

Nobody did anything, nobody asked permission (of the city, of the post 
office...), and mail "so addressed" was actually placed into the proper boxes.  
This lasted some number of years while I lived there and even for a while 
during the time my mail got forwarded until my name was no longer was 
associated with the address.

A few years ago, I drove by that house (sentimental memories?) and while not 
much else had changed, there was only a single mailbox there.  I could not tell 
if either the "backyard cottage" was still there, or if the garage was still 
occupied (with "illegal" plumbing and an outdoor shower shielded by little more 
than some tall bamboo), but one mailbox seemed to fit the circumstances of all 
who lived on the property.

Are there "proper" procedures to "split" an address or "name" a house?  
Probably (in some places).  Probably not, in other places.  I'd ask around 
locally, as I really think this is an EXCEEDINGLY "local" thing.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Warin]

On 4/2/22 19:48, Dian Ågesson wrote:


Genuine question:

If I go to Officeworks and get a sign printed with the name "Bob" and 
put it on my letterbox, does that become the name of my house?




Traditionally the name went on the house.

The post man delivered the letters to the householder, there was no 
letter box. This was in a time before phones, letters were the main form 
of communication .. in populated areas letter delivery could take place 
twice a day.




On 2022-02-04 06:31, Warin wrote:



On 4/2/22 17:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

I've always listed the name of units & so on just as name=*.



+1

No longer used as the address, used 2 centuries ago.



Thanks
Graeme

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 16:14, Mat Attlee > wrote:


Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that
had a street number but also a house name, as just above the
entrance and door number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is
should this be tagged as the name or addr:housename? I know the
latter is common in the UK though I couldn't find anything about
best practice in Australia.



___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Dian Ågesson]

Genuine question:

If I go to Officeworks and get a sign printed with the name "Bob" and 
put it on my letterbox, does that become the name of my house?


On 2022-02-04 06:31, Warin wrote:


On 4/2/22 17:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


I've always listed the name of units & so on just as name=*.


+1

No longer used as the address, used 2 centuries ago.

Thanks

Graeme

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 16:14, Mat Attlee  wrote:

Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that had a 
street number but also a house name, as just above the entrance and 
door number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is should this be 
tagged as the name or addr:housename? I know the latter is common in 
the UK though I couldn't find anything about best practice in 
Australia.


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Warin]

On 4/2/22 17:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

I've always listed the name of units & so on just as name=*.



+1

No longer used as the address, used 2 centuries ago.




Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 16:14, Mat Attlee  wrote:

Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that
had a street number but also a house name, as just above the
entrance and door number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is
should this be tagged as the name or addr:housename? I know the
latter is common in the UK though I couldn't find anything about
best practice in Australia.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[stevea]

Dang auto-correct, of course that's addr:housename.

And when there is "both," as it appears here, "that's a good question!"  (Maybe 
enter both?)
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[stevea]

On Feb 3, 2022, at 10:12 PM, Mat Attlee  wrote:
> Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that had a street 
> number but also a house name, as just above the entrance and door number it 
> said Rivenhall. Now the question is should this be tagged as the name or 
> addr:housename? I know the latter is common in the UK though I couldn't find 
> anything about best practice in Australia.

There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of address:housename keys in OSM, 
widely distributed all around the world, including in Australia.  (Yes, this 
tag is especially dense in Europe).

See https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=addr:housename#map for a map of 
"how dense."

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

I've always listed the name of units & so on just as name=*.

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 at 16:14, Mat Attlee  wrote:

> Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that had a
> street number but also a house name, as just above the entrance and door
> number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is should this be tagged as the
> name or addr:housename? I know the latter is common in the UK though I
> couldn't find anything about best practice in Australia.
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

[talk-au] Tagging a house name

[Mat Attlee]

Whilst I was out surveying today I stumbled upon a building that had a
street number but also a house name, as just above the entrance and door
number it said Rivenhall. Now the question is should this be tagged as the
name or addr:housename? I know the latter is common in the UK though I
couldn't find anything about best practice in Australia.
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au