Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Phil Wyatt]

I agree – plenty of other services doing this much better – suspect it would 
only clutter up OSM and be neglected pretty quickly

 

arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?url=https://services9.arcgis.com/ZFlIzBMHgtgl0EYj/ArcGIS/rest/services/NSW_Bushfire_Burnt_Areas_2019_and_2020/FeatureServer/0&source=sd

 

 

Cheers - Phil

From: Nathanael Coyne  
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 9:56 AM
To: adam steer 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

 

It'd be like trying to tag plots in landuse=forest as felled or mature. While 
it'd be interesting it would quickly become unreliable and reduce the quality 
of data.

 

So while I would love to have burnt areas mapped in OSM I just think it's not 
worth trying.

 

Nathanael Coyne

 

 

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 at 09:44, adam steer mailto:adam.d.st...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I’d  personally avoid tagging areas as burnt - they’re temporary and as per 
advice from Andrew maybe should be left tagged as their long term state.

 

Looking around where I am (Benambra and north) there are already a lot of 
overlapping/duplicated/whats this for polygons relating to land cover… it’d be 
great to avoid adding more.

 

I guess if people want to add burned areas, my only suggestion is that whoever 
does so takes it upon themselves to return and update things later…

 

Regards,

 

Adam

 

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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Nathanael Coyne]

It'd be like trying to tag plots in landuse=forest as felled or mature.
While it'd be interesting it would quickly become unreliable and reduce the
quality of data.

So while I would love to have burnt areas mapped in OSM I just think it's
not worth trying.

Nathanael Coyne


On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 at 09:44, adam steer  wrote:

> I’d  personally avoid tagging areas as burnt - they’re temporary and as
> per advice from Andrew maybe should be left tagged as their long term state.
>
> Looking around where I am (Benambra and north) there are already a lot of
> overlapping/duplicated/whats this for polygons relating to land cover… it’d
> be great to avoid adding more.
>
> I guess if people want to add burned areas, my only suggestion is that
> whoever does so takes it upon themselves to return and update things later…
>
> Regards,
>
> Adam
>
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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[adam steer]

I’d  personally avoid tagging areas as burnt - they’re temporary and as per
advice from Andrew maybe should be left tagged as their long term state.

Looking around where I am (Benambra and north) there are already a lot of
overlapping/duplicated/whats this for polygons relating to land cover… it’d
be great to avoid adding more.

I guess if people want to add burned areas, my only suggestion is that
whoever does so takes it upon themselves to return and update things later…

Regards,

Adam
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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Warin]

On 27/1/20 11:13 pm, Ewen Hill wrote:

I would only be replacing any known houses and outbuildings with 
buildling=ruins. There are a number of old bridges that fall probably 
under this category along railtrails etc.



I don't think much of the tag building=ruins. A church in ruins is still 
recognizable as an exchurch.


Much rather use the life cycle tagging, so building=church becomes 
ruined:building=church.



however the bush and grasslands will regrow ... unless it happens to 
reburn again this season.


  In Victoria over 1000 buildings have been damaged or destroyed 
however some areas are yet to be checked. This will change the fabric 
of some Victorian towns. The Clifton Hill school with around 15 
children may never be rebuilt with children now commuting to Bairnsdale.


   All the other .infrastructure will probably return although 
there is 5,500km of roads to be cleared of dangerous trees and some 
crews are doing only 3km per day due to the dangerous state some trees 
are in.


  I would be looking at reverting any change-sets that have 
brownfield/burnt other than the building=ruins


Ewen



On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 21:07, Andrew Davidson > wrote:


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:51 PM Andrew Harvey
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I have thought about if we should map burnt areas, it's tricky
because while it is surveyable, it changes quickly and the
point at when it changes to no longer burnt is subjective. For
those reasons I do think it's better to store this in another
database not OSM. There you can capture the burn date and
degree of the burn.


 This was what I was thinking. You'd have to somehow tag when an
area was burnt and to what degree it was burnt. Not really
something I'd expect to see in OSM.
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Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia

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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Ewen Hill]

I would only be replacing any known houses and outbuildings with
buildling=ruins. There are a number of old bridges that fall probably under
this category along railtrails etc.  however the bush and grasslands will
regrow ... unless it happens to reburn again this season.

  In Victoria over 1000 buildings have been damaged or destroyed however
some areas are yet to be checked. This will change the fabric of some
Victorian towns. The Clifton Hill school with around 15 children may never
be rebuilt with children now commuting to Bairnsdale.

   All the other .infrastructure will probably return although there is
5,500km of roads to be cleared of dangerous trees and some crews are doing
only 3km per day due to the dangerous state some trees are in.

  I would be looking at reverting any change-sets that have
brownfield/burnt other than the building=ruins

Ewen




On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 21:07, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:51 PM Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have thought about if we should map burnt areas, it's tricky because
>> while it is surveyable, it changes quickly and the point at when it changes
>> to no longer burnt is subjective. For those reasons I do think it's better
>> to store this in another database not OSM. There you can capture the burn
>> date and degree of the burn.
>>
>>
>  This was what I was thinking. You'd have to somehow tag when an area was
> burnt and to what degree it was burnt. Not really something I'd expect to
> see in OSM.
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Andrew Davidson]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:51 PM Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

>
> I have thought about if we should map burnt areas, it's tricky because
> while it is surveyable, it changes quickly and the point at when it changes
> to no longer burnt is subjective. For those reasons I do think it's better
> to store this in another database not OSM. There you can capture the burn
> date and degree of the burn.
>
>
 This was what I was thinking. You'd have to somehow tag when an area was
burnt and to what degree it was burnt. Not really something I'd expect to
see in OSM.
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Re: [talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Andrew Harvey]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse=brownfield is absolutely
not correct, have you reverted? Which changesets?

They are still wood even if burnt so natural=wood should apply.

I have thought about if we should map burnt areas, it's tricky because
while it is surveyable, it changes quickly and the point at when it changes
to no longer burnt is subjective. For those reasons I do think it's better
to store this in another database not OSM. There you can capture the burn
date and degree of the burn.

If you use burt=yes, it means you need to start cutting up your
natural=wood polygons, which I don't think it's worth it.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 08:40, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A German mapper in Carbargo has used landuse=brownfield to map burnt areas.
>
>
> One such area is a recreation ground... so it would be burnt grass.
>
>
> Is it a good idea to map such things?
>
> It could be said this is 'temporary' so not something OSM should map.
>
>
> If so, how should it be tagged?
>
> It is not really a landuse, nor a landcover.
>
> Possibly a new key as a property key, say, burnt=yes?
>
>
>
>
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[talk-au] tagging burnt areas

[Warin]

Hi,

A German mapper in Carbargo has used landuse=brownfield to map burnt areas.


One such area is a recreation ground... so it would be burnt grass.


Is it a good idea to map such things?

It could be said this is 'temporary' so not something OSM should map.


If so, how should it be tagged?

It is not really a landuse, nor a landcover.

Possibly a new key as a property key, say, burnt=yes?




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