Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
http://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/gazette/Gazettes2013/GG2013S204.pdf Not sure what all this is about but may be of interest (it does mention Diggers Way). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
Hi Neil, I think the way to get this fixed permanently could be... Fix it one more time, re-add the note saying that the imagery is out of date and that this intersection has been surveyed. Change the source tag from nearmap to survey. Now even though one of the mnappers has a fairly colourful history of edit wars and non response to polite messages, it may be useful to send both of them a message pointing out that you have actually surveyed the area and that the Bing imagery is out of date. You could send links to the Google map sattelite view that shows the new layout and also the Google street view that shows the old layout. I guess that it's possible (but not likely) that the local council have decided that what they originally had was better and have resealed the parts that were removed. You could check whether the latest mapper actually surveyed it or just traced it from imagery. I also think it would be nice if all edit software flashed up a warning (once per session) if you change an object that has a survey tag. This warning would disappear on the next click but may serve to give the mapper second thoughts as to whether his changes are for the better or not. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
G'day Neil, Steve, aka Steve91 here, if I have been one of the mappers that have caused issues with this intersection I apologies. As for the source of nearmap, it must have been a copy and past error, from the adjacent section of the road. I use AGRI, Bing sat images and survey for areas already mapped. The history of the some sections of the offramp show the nearmap as a source tag going back to 10/05/10. The intersection in question I do remember having a look at, but only for routing issues due to: disconnected ways, incorrect one-way road leading to islands, duplicate ways etc. (i.e. trying to improve the quality of the map, as per the comment on the changeset). I identify items for attention via OSM Inspector or the validator in JOSM. I don't believe I added the ways. It appears that I changed the 2 ways in question from 'track' to tertiary and may have reconnected one end of them. If the intersection has been remodelled, as per the google earth imagery, then the sections of roads should not exist as 'track' and the ways should be removed. Also the onramp that is one way should be one way through the entire section, not have one way followed by bi-directional followed by one way. I have no issues with you reverting the changes I made to the intersection, as long as the traffic routing is consistent along the ways. Regards Steve. - Original Message - From: Neil Penman Sent: 10/22/13 12:10 PM To: Nick Hocking Subject: Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues Hi Nick, Yep thats a good idea to add the survey tag. Interestingly the ways did not not have a source tag up until jan 2013 however Steve91 added the source of Nearmap then. Which I wasn't aware we still had access to. I'll be heading past the intersection later this week and will check it out. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Neil, I think the way to get this fixed permanently could be... Fix it one more time, re-add the note saying that the imagery is out of date and that this intersection has been surveyed. Change the source tag from nearmap to survey. Now even though one of the mnappers has a fairly colourful history of edit wars and non response to polite messages, it may be useful to send both of them a message pointing out that you have actually surveyed the area and that the Bing imagery is out of date. You could send links to the Google map sattelite view that shows the new layout and also the Google street view that shows the old layout. I guess that it's possible (but not likely) that the local council have decided that what they originally had was better and have resealed the parts that were removed. You could check whether the latest mapper actually surveyed it or just traced it from imagery. I also think it would be nice if all edit software flashed up a warning (once per session) if you change an object that has a survey tag. This warning would disappear on the next click but may serve to give the mapper second thoughts as to whether his changes are for the better or not. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/ | Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
Hi Steve, I left those track sections where the old off ramps were as they still existed although they have been blocked off at both ends. I think I marked those with bollards. The only current access between Diggers Way and the old Calder is a T junction on the East side. I'd be surprised if I left routing issues there though its possible I guess. All the rest of the tracks / road segments should have been in accessible. I just made the change and removed completely all of those old road fragments as you suggested. This weekend I will go past with a GPS and get the correct position of the T junction. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM, stev...@email.com wrote: G'day Neil, Steve, aka Steve91 here, if I have been one of the mappers that have caused issues with this intersection I apologies. As for the source of nearmap, it must have been a copy and past error, from the adjacent section of the road. I use AGRI, Bing sat images and survey for areas already mapped. The history of the some sections of the offramp show the nearmap as a source tag going back to 10/05/10. The intersection in question I do remember having a look at, but only for routing issues due to: disconnected ways, incorrect one-way road leading to islands, duplicate ways etc. (i.e. trying to improve the quality of the map, as per the comment on the changeset). I identify items for attention via OSM Inspector or the validator in JOSM. I don't believe I added the ways. It appears that I changed the 2 ways in question from 'track' to tertiary and may have reconnected one end of them. If the intersection has been remodelled, as per the google earth imagery, then the sections of roads should not exist as 'track' and the ways should be removed. Also the onramp that is one way should be one way through the entire section, not have one way followed by bi-directional followed by one way. I have no issues with you reverting the changes I made to the intersection, as long as the traffic routing is consistent along the ways. Regards Steve. - Original Message - From: Neil Penman Sent: 10/22/13 12:10 PM To: Nick Hocking Subject: Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues Hi Nick, Yep thats a good idea to add the survey tag. Interestingly the ways did not not have a source tag up until jan 2013 however Steve91 added the source of Nearmap then. Which I wasn't aware we still had access to. I'll be heading past the intersection later this week and will check it out. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Neil, I think the way to get this fixed permanently could be... Fix it one more time, re-add the note saying that the imagery is out of date and that this intersection has been surveyed. Change the source tag from nearmap to survey. Now even though one of the mnappers has a fairly colourful history of edit wars and non response to polite messages, it may be useful to send both of them a message pointing out that you have actually surveyed the area and that the Bing imagery is out of date. You could send links to the Google map sattelite view that shows the new layout and also the Google street view that shows the old layout. I guess that it's possible (but not likely) that the local council have decided that what they originally had was better and have resealed the parts that were removed. You could check whether the latest mapper actually surveyed it or just traced it from imagery. I also think it would be nice if all edit software flashed up a warning (once per session) if you change an object that has a survey tag. This warning would disappear on the next click but may serve to give the mapper second thoughts as to whether his changes are for the better or not. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
Just noticed the Satellite imagery has been updated. There does seem to be some kind of road being set up on the left side of the old calder as well now. I'll check that out at the weekend too. On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM, stev...@email.com wrote: G'day Neil, Steve, aka Steve91 here, if I have been one of the mappers that have caused issues with this intersection I apologies. As for the source of nearmap, it must have been a copy and past error, from the adjacent section of the road. I use AGRI, Bing sat images and survey for areas already mapped. The history of the some sections of the offramp show the nearmap as a source tag going back to 10/05/10. The intersection in question I do remember having a look at, but only for routing issues due to: disconnected ways, incorrect one-way road leading to islands, duplicate ways etc. (i.e. trying to improve the quality of the map, as per the comment on the changeset). I identify items for attention via OSM Inspector or the validator in JOSM. I don't believe I added the ways. It appears that I changed the 2 ways in question from 'track' to tertiary and may have reconnected one end of them. If the intersection has been remodelled, as per the google earth imagery, then the sections of roads should not exist as 'track' and the ways should be removed. Also the onramp that is one way should be one way through the entire section, not have one way followed by bi-directional followed by one way. I have no issues with you reverting the changes I made to the intersection, as long as the traffic routing is consistent along the ways. Regards Steve. - Original Message - From: Neil Penman Sent: 10/22/13 12:10 PM To: Nick Hocking Subject: Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues Hi Nick, Yep thats a good idea to add the survey tag. Interestingly the ways did not not have a source tag up until jan 2013 however Steve91 added the source of Nearmap then. Which I wasn't aware we still had access to. I'll be heading past the intersection later this week and will check it out. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Neil, I think the way to get this fixed permanently could be... Fix it one more time, re-add the note saying that the imagery is out of date and that this intersection has been surveyed. Change the source tag from nearmap to survey. Now even though one of the mnappers has a fairly colourful history of edit wars and non response to polite messages, it may be useful to send both of them a message pointing out that you have actually surveyed the area and that the Bing imagery is out of date. You could send links to the Google map sattelite view that shows the new layout and also the Google street view that shows the old layout. I guess that it's possible (but not likely) that the local council have decided that what they originally had was better and have resealed the parts that were removed. You could check whether the latest mapper actually surveyed it or just traced it from imagery. I also think it would be nice if all edit software flashed up a warning (once per session) if you change an object that has a survey tag. This warning would disappear on the next click but may serve to give the mapper second thoughts as to whether his changes are for the better or not. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
Neil, Once again, sorry if I caused any issues. I try to be careful with my map edits. The changes that you have made (just now) are more substantial than what was there prior to my work on that section of the map. The West side had the southbound access left on it and the others on the west side as highway track. Good luck for the weekend and hopefully once you have surveyed the junction it will remain correct... Steve. - Original Message - From: Neil Penman Sent: 10/22/13 02:38 PM To: stev...@email.com Subject: Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues Hi Steve, I left those track sections where the old off ramps were as they still existed although they have been blocked off at both ends. I think I marked those with bollards. The only current access between Diggers Way and the old Calder is a T junction on the East side. I'd be surprised if I left routing issues there though its possible I guess. All the rest of the tracks / road segments should have been in accessible. I just made the change and removed completely all of those old road fragments as you suggested. This weekend I will go past with a GPS and get the correct position of the T junction. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM, stev...@email.com wrote:G'day Neil, Steve, aka Steve91 here, if I have been one of the mappers that have caused issues with this intersection I apologies. As for the source of nearmap, it must have been a copy and past error, from the adjacent section of the road. I use AGRI, Bing sat images and survey for areas already mapped. The history of the some sections of the offramp show the nearmap as a source tag going back to 10/05/10. The intersection in question I do remember having a look at, but only for routing issues due to: disconnected ways, incorrect one-way road leading to islands, duplicate ways etc. (i.e. trying to improve the quality of the map, as per the comment on the changeset). I identify items for attention via OSM Inspector or the validator in JOSM. I don't believe I added the ways. It appears that I changed the 2 ways in question from 'track' to tertiary and may have reconnected one end of them. If the intersection has been remodelled, as per the google earth imagery, then the sections of roads should not exist as 'track' and the ways should be removed. Also the onramp that is one way should be one way through the entire section, not have one way followed by bi-directional followed by one way. I have no issues with you reverting the changes I made to the intersection, as long as the traffic routing is consistent along the ways. Regards Steve. - Original Message - From: Neil Penman Sent: 10/22/13 12:10 PM To: Nick Hocking Subject: Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues Hi Nick, Yep thats a good idea to add the survey tag. Interestingly the ways did not not have a source tag up until jan 2013 however Steve91 added the source of Nearmap then. Which I wasn't aware we still had access to. I'll be heading past the intersection later this week and will check it out. regards Neil On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Neil, I think the way to get this fixed permanently could be... Fix it one more time, re-add the note saying that the imagery is out of date and that this intersection has been surveyed. Change the source tag from nearmap to survey. Now even though one of the mnappers has a fairly colourful history of edit wars and non response to polite messages, it may be useful to send both of them a message pointing out that you have actually surveyed the area and that the Bing imagery is out of date. You could send links to the Google map sattelite view that shows the new layout and also the Google street view that shows the old layout. I guess that it's possible (but not likely) that the local council have decided that what they originally had was better and have resealed the parts that were removed. You could check whether the latest mapper actually surveyed it or just traced it from imagery. I also think it would be nice if all edit software flashed up a warning (once per session) if you change an object that has a survey tag. This warning would disappear on the next click but may serve to give the mapper second thoughts as to whether his changes are for the better or not. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/ | Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 tel:%2B61%20402%20975%20959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/ | Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
I agree. Armchair mapping is useful for features difficult to survey and perhaps appropriate for (eg) roads not yet surveyed but it should never be applied to overwrite features already present, features probably accuratly mapped already. The OSM wiki page on Armchair mapping used to make that clear, I have not looked at it recently David On 19/10/13 12:07, Neil Penman wrote: I did that after the first revert. However it didn't help :). I think it important to try to develop a culture that existing map data should not be changed unless you know you are improving it. If the map shows a road network that differs from the Satellite in a way that may be due to design then either you should contact the previous mapper before changing it or you should get on your bike and head out to the site to verify that the satellite imagery is in fact correct. On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 11:58 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com mailto:snow...@gmx.com wrote: On 19/10/13 11:20, Neil Penman wrote: Unfortunately the culture seems to have become that any accurate local mapping should be replaced with unthinking tracing over the top of obsolete satellite imagery. I find that it sometimes helps to add an appropriately-worded note to the nodes or ways in question: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:note John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com mailto:minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
On 19/10/13 11:20, Neil Penman wrote: Unfortunately the culture seems to have become that any accurate local mapping should be replaced with unthinking tracing over the top of obsolete satellite imagery. I find that it sometimes helps to add an appropriately-worded note to the nodes or ways in question: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:note John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Openstreetmap Quality Issues
I did that after the first revert. However it didn't help :). I think it important to try to develop a culture that existing map data should not be changed unless you know you are improving it. If the map shows a road network that differs from the Satellite in a way that may be due to design then either you should contact the previous mapper before changing it or you should get on your bike and head out to the site to verify that the satellite imagery is in fact correct. On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 11:58 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: On 19/10/13 11:20, Neil Penman wrote: Unfortunately the culture seems to have become that any accurate local mapping should be replaced with unthinking tracing over the top of obsolete satellite imagery. I find that it sometimes helps to add an appropriately-worded note to the nodes or ways in question: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/** wiki/Key:note http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:note John __**_ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-auhttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Smap Consulting http://smap.com.au/| Mobile Data Collection Solutions Application Developer - neilpen...@gmail.com minqiang.hu...@gmail.com Twitter: @dgmsot Skype: ianaf4you Phone: +61 402 975 959 Blog: http://blog.smap.com.au http://smap.com.au/blog ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
