Re: [Talk-ca] [OSM-talk] Mappy New Year
Mappy New Year everyone! Over here at OpenStreetMap US we'll celebrate OpenStreetMap's big 1-0 with State of the Map US April 12 and 13 in Washington DC http://stateofthemap.us/ I invite everyone (not just US based mappers) to join, propose a session and share their ideas and experiences in growing OpenStreetMap as a community and as a map. I'd like to add to Richard's call to get active in your community. In the US we regularly create an excuse for this with our quarterly #editathons. Next one is in January 18/19, you can get yourself still on this list: http://openstreetmap.us/2013/11/january-winter-editathon/ Here's to 2014 Alex On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Hi All, I hope that you are off to a great start on your mapping activities for 2014. OpenStreetMap is certainly off to a great start. User emacsen wrote a compelling article today that drove a significant number of new mappers to OpenStreetMap. That's some great advocacy, right there. The article is really aimed at folks who are not yet mappers, so not really the same audience of these lists, as we're already mappers. but you might enjoy the article anyway. Have a look. http://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2014/01/04/why-the-world-needs-openstreetmap/ In 2014 we will see the 10 anniversary / birthday of OpenStreetMap. What are you going to do to celebrate? We (the local mappers in Toronto) will host another OpenStreetMap Mapiversary party, details to be determined, how about your local group? On that subject, is this the year that you'll start a local mapping group in your town? I've never understood why it is that the German community has groups of mappers that meet each month, in just about every city, town and village of size, while in North America those groups are very rare. It could be that the difference is you. You can start a successful, self-sustaining local group that meets each month to discuss OpenStreetMap. So you should do that. It's great fun. Part of our fun in Toronto in 2013 included, the 9th birthday party, including a map cake. Twelve regularly scheduled Mappy Hour events, two formal presentation events, three special guest events to celebrate august mappers visiting from other places. (and a little bit of a flood, but we soldiered on anyway.) What about this thread? Tell me, what your plans are for 2014? and have a Mappy New Year, Richard ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Richard I dont think that we should advocate against import. Then we differ. I've been advocating for better imports with every import I've seen since 2006. While the tools have improved, the results for the most part, just haven't. Let's try in 2014 to be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better. You might continue to believe that imports are just fine, I do not. Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap community in all except extremely limited circumstances. Invariably, when I add that except in extremely limited circumstances, the listener will presume that they are in fact the exception. Invariably, they aren't the exception. They are well intentioned. They are in love with data. They want a better OpenStreetMap. And then they make an import of some sort and cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean up because it is too much work. The linked thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to do it better. The after action report on any decent effort at an import has discussed ways to do better in the future. Technically, essentially every import has been better than the one before. To date, overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough. My recommendation is never to import. Import should be a very dirty word in OpenStreetMap. By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have permission to use. Use external resources* by comparing each item with all of the other existing resources, including imagery, existing OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap. But never import.** Yes. It's way slower. Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced mapper. But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to your reputation as a mapper. To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to OpenStreetMap in greater numbers. I have every bit as much data love for a new data set as the next mapper. Dumping huge amounts of un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect. * Only the ones for which we have explicit permission to use. ** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses
Richard we are trying to build a community, to work with various governments to provide some data. At the same time, we should bring a minimum of nuances in discussing in subjects like the imports. Yes there are mappers that make errors, and yes we should help them to do better, we should take care to have good guidelines, good follow-up. And this not only for imports. The same with field surveys and Aerial imagery. If you use a GPS to locate a store, there is good chance that you will not place a commerce at the right place and even place it on the wrong side of the street. And if you trace from Imagery in sandy areas dozens of paths going in all directions, this is not meaningful. It is very difficult to discuss, when somebody comes with such a radical position as you present every time we discuss of imports. Let's hope that we can have more constructive ways to discuss on this list in 2014. Pierre De : Richard Weait rich...@weait.com À : Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc : Talk- CA Open Street Map talk-ca@openstreetmap.org; diane.merc...@gmail.com diane.merc...@gmail.com Envoyé le : Lundi 6 janvier 2014 12h49 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Richard I dont think that we should advocate against import. Then we differ. I've been advocating for better imports with every import I've seen since 2006. While the tools have improved, the results for the most part, just haven't. Let's try in 2014 to be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better. You might continue to believe that imports are just fine, I do not. Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap community in all except extremely limited circumstances. Invariably, when I add that except in extremely limited circumstances, the listener will presume that they are in fact the exception. Invariably, they aren't the exception. They are well intentioned. They are in love with data. They want a better OpenStreetMap. And then they make an import of some sort and cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean up because it is too much work. The linked thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to do it better. The after action report on any decent effort at an import has discussed ways to do better in the future. Technically, essentially every import has been better than the one before. To date, overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough. My recommendation is never to import. Import should be a very dirty word in OpenStreetMap. By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have permission to use. Use external resources* by comparing each item with all of the other existing resources, including imagery, existing OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap. But never import.** Yes. It's way slower. Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced mapper. But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to your reputation as a mapper. To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to OpenStreetMap in greater numbers. I have every bit as much data love for a new data set as the next mapper. Dumping huge amounts of un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect. * Only the ones for which we have explicit permission to use. ** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here.___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses
The effort behind OSM in terms of the map is to obtain, enter and maintain accurate and up-to-date data. Any effort to create a community is ours as the Canadian users of the editing tools. As such, the assertion that importing should be discouraged is one for the benefit of the map and not the community. Since the map is our primary concern, it seems reasonable to seek to limit this activity to those that have been proven to be skilled in the process. New users could be encouraged to use the sandbox to gain these skills. Adam On Jan 6, 2014 2:45 PM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Richard we are trying to build a community, to work with various governments to provide some data. At the same time, we should bring a minimum of nuances in discussing in subjects like the imports. Yes there are mappers that make errors, and yes we should help them to do better, we should take care to have good guidelines, good follow-up. And this not only for imports. The same with field surveys and Aerial imagery. If you use a GPS to locate a store, there is good chance that you will not place a commerce at the right place and even place it on the wrong side of the street. And if you trace from Imagery in sandy areas dozens of paths going in all directions, this is not meaningful. It is very difficult to discuss, when somebody comes with such a radical position as you present every time we discuss of imports. Let's hope that we can have more constructive ways to discuss on this list in 2014. Pierre -- *De :* Richard Weait rich...@weait.com *À :* Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr *Cc :* Talk- CA Open Street Map talk-ca@openstreetmap.org; diane.merc...@gmail.com diane.merc...@gmail.com *Envoyé le :* Lundi 6 janvier 2014 12h49 *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Richard I dont think that we should advocate against import. Then we differ. I've been advocating for better imports with every import I've seen since 2006. While the tools have improved, the results for the most part, just haven't. Let's try in 2014 to be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better. You might continue to believe that imports are just fine, I do not. Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap community in all except extremely limited circumstances. Invariably, when I add that except in extremely limited circumstances, the listener will presume that they are in fact the exception. Invariably, they aren't the exception. They are well intentioned. They are in love with data. They want a better OpenStreetMap. And then they make an import of some sort and cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean up because it is too much work. The linked thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to do it better. The after action report on any decent effort at an import has discussed ways to do better in the future. Technically, essentially every import has been better than the one before. To date, overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough. My recommendation is never to import. Import should be a very dirty word in OpenStreetMap. By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have permission to use. Use external resources* by comparing each item with all of the other existing resources, including imagery, existing OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap. But never import.** Yes. It's way slower. Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced mapper. But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to your reputation as a mapper. To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to OpenStreetMap in greater numbers. I have every bit as much data love for a new data set as the next mapper. Dumping huge amounts of un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect. * Only the ones for which we have explicit permission to use. ** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Floating Island Error
Based on an earlier discussion on the OSM Canada board, I've been trying to figure out what is the best way of correcting the floating island error that has been plaguing the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Specifically, the error occurs from two directions. The first is localized on the Cape Breton island area of Nova Scotia (for example, http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?schema=104error=25004109) and the other is located along the northern coast of Quebec (for example, http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?schema=20error=5357196). From the prior discussion, I decided to wait a couple of weeks in order to ensure that the floating island errors were real and not some sort of processing error. The problem has proved to be persistent. From reviewing the areas in ID and Potlach 2, they seem to relate somehow to the importation of CanVec v6.0 data into the map. In each case, the line separating the connected from the disconnected is an arbitrary one represented by a polygon area designated as wood. Interestingly, the error is ignored in the navigation application I tried. Inverness routes south to Port Hawkesbury without any problems. This points to the issue being on Keeprights side and not the actual map. If that is the case, then there is little problem, other than that keepright cannot be relied upon to identify floating island within Newfoundland, Labrador, part of Quebec and part of Nova Scotia. I'm not sure if potentially rolling back the imports would make a difference. In that case, I would ask a more seasoned mapper with experience with reversions and imports to actually perform such a thing. Let me know what you think. Adam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses
Bonjour Richard, You wrote that Imports are harmful to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap community. I'm inclined not to agree with you. However I may have missed something obvious. Saying that data import is harmful to OpenStreetMap project and harmful to its community sounds like sharing a belief. Please, provide us with concrete examples to make all of us understand why - not only believe - that imports are harmful... - To the project, specifically in Canada? - To the community, specifically in Canada? I agree with Pierre that we should bring a minimum of nuances in discussing subjects like the imports - actually, discussing with the community should be done with nuances, whatever the subject. Considering all what you have done for the OSM project so far, and the nuances you usually show in your words, the facts that support your statement about import must be very strong! Unfortunately, I am not aware of these facts/arguments and maybe the community is not either... So please, take the time to make your point; and if possible be specific to the Canadian community. I guess most of us are reasonable people and we should be able to understand something that seems so obvious for you :-) Best, Daniel -Original Message- From: Richard Weait [mailto:rich...@weait.com] Sent: January-06-14 12:49 To: Pierre Béland Cc: diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk- CA Open Street Map Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Richard I dont think that we should advocate against import. Then we differ. I've been advocating for better imports with every import I've seen since 2006. While the tools have improved, the results for the most part, just haven't. Let's try in 2014 to be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better. You might continue to believe that imports are just fine, I do not. Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap community in all except extremely limited circumstances. Invariably, when I add that except in extremely limited circumstances, the listener will presume that they are in fact the exception. Invariably, they aren't the exception. They are well intentioned. They are in love with data. They want a better OpenStreetMap. And then they make an import of some sort and cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean up because it is too much work. The linked thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to do it better. The after action report on any decent effort at an import has discussed ways to do better in the future. Technically, essentially every import has been better than the one before. To date, overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough. My recommendation is never to import. Import should be a very dirty word in OpenStreetMap. By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have permission to use. Use external resources* by comparing each item with all of the other existing resources, including imagery, existing OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap. But never import.** Yes. It's way slower. Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced mapper. But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to your reputation as a mapper. To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to OpenStreetMap in greater numbers. I have every bit as much data love for a new data set as the next mapper. Dumping huge amounts of un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect. * Only the ones for which we have explicit permission to use. ** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Floating Island Error
Oops, replied to Adam only. Here's one for the list. I've checked a few, including the two that he linked, and found no trouble. No hidden nodes-in-the-same-places. everything rubberbands as expected when connected. JOSM validator reports no connectivity issues. I've sent a note to the keepright maintainers to ask about this. And I marked the ones that I checked as ignore - false positive. The area could use a real survey. the import from canvec v5 had no road names, so there is great deal of improvement to be had there. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
