Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
may have in OSM in the future.

Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 28 February 2016 at 20:37, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:

> Hi John, and all —
>
> If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:
>
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules
>
> then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:
>
> http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use
>
> This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:
>
> http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility
>
> and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
> data sets, should be removed from the map.
>
> I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
> but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
> with itself.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Stewart C. Russell]

Hi John, and all —

If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:

http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules

then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:

http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use

This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:

http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility

and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
data sets, should be removed from the map.

I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
with itself.

cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[James]

I had also STO had no choice of being added manually as STO wouldnt provide
gtfs data, not sure if the license is even compatible for import(for the
gtfs data they finally provided after many people have begged for years for)
On Feb 28, 2016 4:24 PM, "Adam Martin"  wrote:

> This is often the trouble that long-term mappers might have with
> hit-and-run mappers, especially with regards to "living" information that
> is added to the map. Static information, like large buildings in a mature
> location or major thoroughfares, can be added by these quick mappers and
> remain relatively "safe" in terms of display on the map. The more living
> that information might be, such as bus stops in a metropolis or the
> individual businesses in a strip mall, the more prone it is to becoming
> stale-dated. Mappers in the area would be better suited to updating these
> points.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:37 PM, James  wrote:
>
>> Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
>> there were any added/changed after the fact
>> On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>
>>> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed
>>> at least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops
>>> on Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
>>> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
>>> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>>>
>>> Oh well such is life.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
 >
 > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
 stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
 OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
 reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
 will be there and some will be missed.
 > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
 information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
 GTFS file.
 >
 > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
 shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
 information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
 locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
 and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
 where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
 Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
 users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

 The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator
 OC Transpo to them.

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>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Adam Martin]

This is often the trouble that long-term mappers might have with
hit-and-run mappers, especially with regards to "living" information that
is added to the map. Static information, like large buildings in a mature
location or major thoroughfares, can be added by these quick mappers and
remain relatively "safe" in terms of display on the map. The more living
that information might be, such as bus stops in a metropolis or the
individual businesses in a strip mall, the more prone it is to becoming
stale-dated. Mappers in the area would be better suited to updating these
points.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:37 PM, James  wrote:

> Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
> there were any added/changed after the fact
> On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
>> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed
>> at least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops
>> on Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
>> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
>> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>>
>> Oh well such is life.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
>>> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
>>> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
>>> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
>>> will be there and some will be missed.
>>> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
>>> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
>>> GTFS file.
>>> >
>>> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
>>> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
>>> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
>>> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
>>> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
>>> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
>>> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
>>> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>>>
>>> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator
>>> OC Transpo to them.
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[James]

Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
there were any added/changed after the fact
On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed at
> least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops on
> Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>
> Oh well such is life.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>> >
>> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
>> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
>> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
>> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
>> will be there and some will be missed.
>> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
>> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
>> GTFS file.
>> >
>> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
>> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
>> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
>> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
>> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
>> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
>> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
>> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>>
>> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
>> Transpo to them.
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed at
least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops on
Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.

Oh well such is life.

Cheerio John

On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon  wrote:

>
> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
> >
> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
> will be there and some will be missed.
> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
> GTFS file.
> >
> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>
> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
> Transpo to them.
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Andrew MacKinnon]

On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
> It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
will be there and some will be missed.
> These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
GTFS file.
>
> I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus shelters
and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter information.  Are
we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is locally andrewpmk mapped
bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information and they are still
there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped where there should be
only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data? Were all the bus
stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to users this bus stop
was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
Transpo to them.
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[Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus stops,
which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand OC
transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
will be there and some will be missed.
These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
GTFS file.

I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus shelters
and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter information.  Are
we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is locally andrewpmk mapped
bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information and they are still
there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped where there should be
only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data? Were all the bus
stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to users this bus stop
was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

Thoughts?

Thanks

Cheerio John
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