Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
Richard Weait wrote: Well we are all the OSM project, so regional styles would have some support; you and me at least. ;-) How to implement it? That's a question. I'm interested in regional styles as well, but it's a tough nut to crack, if you want the regional styles to be collated into 1 overall map, like the competition also has. So, IF mapnik / osmarender supported regions style sheets, They can easily render from different stylesheets, as a separate task. That only makes you end up with 2 sets of tiles. The interesting, and very challenging task, is then how to stitch them up at the boundaries where the style changes. and IF regional style sheets existed for USA and Canada, That's up to people like you and me. They won't magically pop into existence. Fortunately, most of the changes involve tweaks to colour, symbols, and zoom levels. Most of the structure of the stylesheet can be preserved just fine when doing another style. and IF the Foundation / server team decided to support the idea, then the main site could serve regional tiles to all who visit. I think that the first two points are the tricky ones. Do not discount the last one. = Would the main OSM site connect to and defer to the regional server? No. The stance I got when it came up in discussion is that the map on openstreetmap.org will only show tiles coming from servers under control of the osm.org admins. They would not redirect to an outside server for different regions. -- Lennard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Lennardl...@xs4all.nl wrote: As you guys in the North Americas might will probably already have noticed, the main mapnik style now shows state boundaries, and also labels them either by ref or name, depending on zoom. I noticed that yesterday... I'm much happier now, Canada is starting to look like it has some mapping going on. It's no longer a blank slate. Of course now that the borders are rendered at a level when you can see the data, I see that there are multiple borders around Alberta. Every time we make the data in the database visible, we find more problems! Oh well, it was an easy fix... I had a look and found that it was some lunk-head by the user name of VE6SRV that put imprecise borders in place... Just deleted them from the database, and now all should render nicely. Oh yeah, there's only one North America... even if those silly people to the south of us think they can label themselves as if they are the only inhabitants of the Americas! So, while poking around, I notice that again we have these node remnants... big old green dots along the way that don't describe anything. We've seen this quite often before, mostly part of mass imports. The lakewalker script left these behind on shorelines, the GeoBase road import left them as well. Now again they are here on the border import. Do we need to look at fixing the way the automated imports happen, or fixing the import routines to be able to handle the speed at which the data is thrown at it, or do we just live with it? It also looks like Daniel Patterson was importing the continental divide as well. Lots of nodes, but it doesn't look like a way was described. Is there a tag for the continental divide? I did a quick look in the wiki, and didn't see it. They might have a tag in the watershed project. The continental divide is a feature that is described on a lot of maps. Here's where to look: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7998lon=-119.977zoom=13 James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
I think the provincial / state borders will continue to be yucky on the main map until mapnik supports rendering different style sheets per region / country. We, in North America, get to see what is A better approach would be for mapnik to look at the area covered and try to adjust the level of administrative boundaries displayed based on how much fits. Same for roads, of course. Basically, auto-adjusting the style-sheet based on the amount of details it has room for. Stefan ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
Ngày 8/15/09 12:48 PM, Sam Vekemans viết: Also, Perhaps explaining (on the wiki, as an example) why the boarder between Spain Portugal shows up lighter than the border between Germany and Poland. As that might give the reader a clue, and better understanding of the issue. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.5lon=9.2zoom=4layers=B000FTF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.5lon=9.2zoom=4layers=B000FTF Or maybe if there is another wiki page somewhere else that explains it. In that case, a link would suffice. Someone on either the dev or U.S. list explained that borders with fewer twists and turns will show up lighter when zoomed out. That is, Mapnik doesn't perform any smoothing on country boundaries yet. Also, changeset 17070 [1] sounds like an attempt to address this issue. [1] http://trac.osm.org/changeset/17070 -- Minh Nguyen m...@zoomtown.com [[en:User:Mxn]] [[vi:User:Mxn]] [[m:User:Mxn]] AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: m...@1ec5.org; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/ ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Weaitrich...@weait.com wrote: I think the provincial / state borders will continue to be yucky on the main map until mapnik supports rendering different style sheets per region / country. My thoughts exactly, but does the OSM project support continent/country wide style sheets? I suspect not, so the next step would be to figure out who to query about this, and whether it would be concept that would be supported. Would this be something that would be up to the end user? If understand the concept, the main slippy map is just a place to show what is in the database, and it would be up to the end user to render tiles and create a display mechanism for their own use. We, in North America, get to see what is essentially a European style sheet, and as those countries are smaller, rendering their states / provinces at zoom 3 is just as stupid as not rendering ours at zoom 3. Yes, I agree that there's no way that we can come up with a style sheet that will work everywhere. I think that's why the mantra Don't tag for the renderers has come to be. People are trying to tag things so they render on the slippy map in a manner in which they would like to see. I think that some of that is being done already anyway, since the major highways in Alberta at least have been bumped up from Primary to Trunk, and now to Motorway. With them tagged as Trunk or Motorway they show up until zoom level 5, with Primary roads disappearing at zoom level 7. You need to be at zoom level 5 before you can see the whole province, but the provincial admin boundary doesn't show up until zoom level 11. P.S. re Sam's suggestion, just changing the admin level sounds like the wrong approach to me. Yes, that would be tagging for the renderer in my interpretation. James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:36 PM, James Ewenve6...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Weaitrich...@weait.com wrote: I think the provincial / state borders will continue to be yucky on the main map until mapnik supports rendering different style sheets per region / country. My thoughts exactly, but does the OSM project support continent/country wide style sheets? I suspect not, so the next step would be to figure out who to query about this, and whether it would be concept that would be supported. Would this be something that would be up to the end user? Well we are all the OSM project, so regional styles would have some support; you and me at least. ;-) How to implement it? That's a question. If understand the concept, the main slippy map is just a place to show what is in the database, and it would be up to the end user to render tiles and create a display mechanism for their own use. So, IF mapnik / osmarender supported regions style sheets, and IF regional style sheets existed for USA and Canada, and IF the Foundation / server team decided to support the idea, then the main site could serve regional tiles to all who visit. I think that the first two points are the tricky ones. We, in North America, get to see what is essentially a European style sheet, and as those countries are smaller, rendering their states / provinces at zoom 3 is just as stupid as not rendering ours at zoom 3. Yes, I agree that there's no way that we can come up with a style sheet that will work everywhere. Well it won't be ideal to the eyes of everyone. The current mapnik style, for example is about a bajillion times prettier than the old vectors and 8 colours from early on in the project. SteveC (if I remember correctly) put up a slide at SotM showing the old rendering. The difference and progress is nothing short of stunning. Thank you, Steve Chilton and other cartographers! I think that's why the mantra Don't tag for the renderers has come to be. People are trying to tag things so they render on the slippy map in a manner in which they would like to see. I think that some of that is being done already anyway, since the major highways in Alberta at least have been bumped up from Primary to Trunk, and now to Motorway. With them tagged as Trunk or Motorway they show up until zoom level 5, with Primary roads disappearing at zoom level 7. You need to be at zoom level 5 before you can see the whole province, but the provincial admin boundary doesn't show up until zoom level 11. Right. Er, correct, and it looks wrong. Anybody can fix this. I played with mapnik a bit, just to see the provinces. Please be gentle to my delicate server and connection. http://weait.com/maps/?zoom=2lat=44.70531lon=-83.54813layers=0B0 So with a server and connectivity, and a slightly-revised version of the default style, anybody can serve a better OSM for Canada than the current default. Same goes for USA and state borders. No Mapnik/osmarender changes required. Would the main OSM site connect to and defer to the regional server? I don't know. How would traffic compare on the regional sites? I don't know. I'll keep working on the style as I learn more about mapnik. I'll probably have a mapnik article on my site in the next little while too. Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Can-Amera border, states and provinces.
Hi Richard and all, On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: P.S. re Sam's suggestion, just changing the admin level sounds like the wrong approach to me. Explaining why the provincial boundaries don't render, on the wiki page, sounds like the right approach to me. So I put it as a Goal as it will eventually get done. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Provincial_Boarders Feel free to edit it as needed, with examples and reasons. As it always helps to clarify. Otherwise, in a few months, someone else will be wondering why US/Canada state/province boarders don't show up. Also, Perhaps explaining (on the wiki, as an example) why the boarder between Spain Portugal shows up lighter than the border between Germany and Poland. As that might give the reader a clue, and better understanding of the issue. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.5lon=9.2zoom=4layers=B000FTF Or maybe if there is another wiki page somewhere else that explains it. In that case, a link would suffice. Hopefully others will want to correct it. Cheers, Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
