Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
I'd love to see in OSM (with a nod by STATCAN?) a Canadian "model building" (one will do), linked in the wiki. Richly-tagged and well done, to provide a standard to shoot for. To close a small, tight QA loop, as it were. "Here is what we'd like to see more of." Start small, document it. That seems a fairly low bar to step over. Later, SteveA ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
I would still make the comment that it is a live map and even University > students can get creative. > > I would recommend having someone go over the edits carefully. Ideally an > experienced validator. Both from the point of view of accuracy and also to > give feedback to the students. If you're mapping in Canada be aware people > will not welcome inaccurate mapping and can be quite vocal about it. Don't > assume because you are a teacher you know enough about the subject. > Locally a University professor asked their students to add detail to the > map but restrict it to on Campus. They didn't restrict themselves and I > believe both added and modified existing data incorrectly which took > considerable clean up effort from a number of local mappers. > > The more flexibility you give the students the steeper the learning > curve. It takes about an hour before a new adult mapper feels comfortable > adding building outlines. > > When working with Bjenk on the Canadian building project it was apparent > that the building outline was only part of what they were after. > Alessandro was the first person I've seen to accurately map a building > outline in iD so it can be done. The other information they were after was > the number of floors. How many does a split level have by the way? The > use, commercial, residential etc. Ask Alessandro nicely and he might even > give you a list of what they are after. StreetComplete runs on an Android > smartphone and can be used to add this type of data. > > On the visually impaired side we have special tactile pads in the side > walk at junctions but I haven't worked out how to map and tag them yet and > I'm fairly experienced. > > If you go a HOT project then in theory they have validators on their > projects. Bug me nicely and I might even point you to one that is actively > validated. > > The following maybe of interest. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education > > The links contained give access to people who have done it before. > > Cheerio John > > > > > > On 23 January 2018 at 23:30, keith hartley > wrote: > >> Hi Jonathan, >> I work with a GIS users group in Manitoba (MGUG.ca) and we were talking >> about how to use OSM as a learning tool for high school students as well. >> From our education sub-committee we discussed that building footprints or >> adding roads doesn't add to what the provincial high school geo subject >> curriculum needs. One suggestion was rather then adding new data and >> supervising edits, we can augment the map to be more detailed. (better >> trails, active transport, or building accessibility for disabled people) >> >> One example would be addressing mobility and accessibility around the >> school. If we could get a few high schools within an area to participate, >> we could could add buildings that are accessible via ramps ect, or maybe >> signaled crosswalks. That information could show the students issues that >> vision impaired, or mobility restricted people face, while at the same time >> improving the map. (similar to wheel map https://wheelmap.org) >> >> We're still at the discussion stage, but just a thought! >> >> Thanks, >> Keith >> >> >> ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 8:30 PM, keith hartley wrote: > > I work with a GIS users group in Manitoba (MGUG.ca) and we were talking > about how to use OSM as a learning tool for high school students as well. > From our education sub-committee we discussed that building footprints or > adding roads doesn't add to what the provincial high school geo subject > curriculum needs. One suggestion was rather then adding new data and > supervising edits, we can augment the map to be more detailed. (better > trails, active transport, or building accessibility for disabled people) > > One example would be addressing mobility and accessibility around the > school. If we could get a few high schools within an area to participate, > we could could add buildings that are accessible via ramps ect, or maybe > signaled crosswalks. That information could show the students issues that > vision impaired, or mobility restricted people face, while at the same time > improving the map. (similar to wheel map https://wheelmap.org) > > Keith, I've been working with a team at the University of Washington on access mapping for people with limited mobility. They have a website, opensidewalks.com, that explains their goals and how they plan to accomplish the work. Your suggestion of starting with the school and areas around it are how we started. The City of Seattle has sidewalk data but not for the university's campus. We manually mapped the campus, which has a surprisingly high number of stairs. The same process should work just as well at high schools. Let me know if I can provide any information not already included in the opensidewalks website. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
t; waymarkedtrails.org, mapzen...) -> routers which use these data (e.g. > cycle.travel...). > > That path/workflow bubbles up from the roots of streets and routes folks > bike on and the feedback loop of local jurisdictions to > make/develop/improve/document these, all the way to a savvy biker running > an iPhone app that produces the "perfect route, today, because it is > snowing lightly, and my daughter is accompanying me to the park we are > biking to" with the swipe of a finger. Obviously, there is a LOT "in the > middle" there, and that "big middle" will be both the same (structurally, > within OSM and its conventions of tagging and building renderers and > routers) and different (in the case of "we have speed limit data and > traffic volume and snow-day data here"). > > Seek out the existing "wheels already invented" (some within OSM, some > not). Learn from those what didn't work and what might be repurposed to > work and work well. Use the good tenets of OSM (consensus, plastic tagging > which can well-accommodate new strategies like "how do I bike on a snow > day?" and the "soft" aspect of software to build renderers and routers > (should you eventually get there, and I believe you will). The future of > bicycling in Ottawa (and Canada) looks like it is going to LOVE OSM and all > it has to offer these efforts! > > Get to a consensus of "local (government's view of bicycling) 1.0 is now > OSM 1.0" and then put the pieces together of what will be (I can feel it in > my bones!) a terrific 2.0. And 3.0 and beyond. However, nothing ever > happens without a good plan, and good planning and good project management > is what will get you there. The solid backbone and structure of OSM is the > vessel, and Ottawa and Canada are very well on your way to fantastic > bicycle geo data and tools. The rest of the pieces come from dialog, > consensus, good community building, good planing and good implementation. > Go! > > SteveA > California > > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:45:03 -0500 > From: Jonathan Brown > To: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools > Message-ID: <5a67d713.4aa0240a.e9853.0...@mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Looking for anyone who has done a BC2020i mapathon event with high school > students. We are hoping to run one in Niagara, Durham and Northumberland > regions this winter/spring. > > Jonathan > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/ > attachments/20180123/446b78fc/attachment-0001.html> > > -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:19:52 -0500 > From: john whelan > To: Jonathan Brown > Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Buildings Canada? > > I was involved with something in Ottawa. I deliberately used JOSM and the > building tool plugin. It went very smoothly and a fair number of buildings > were accurately mapped. The mappers were requested to come with JAVA > preinstalled. I had two laptops set up that new mappers could start off > with and we had sufficient resources that we could take them fairly quickly > through the steps and get them mapping. The number of buildings mapped per > new mapper was in the order of 60 per minute. > > Make sure you have spare mice with you. > > There were a number of other mapathons as part of geoweek that used iD. > Unfortunately the quality of mapping was not that high leading to > compliants about the data quality. > > Building numbers from mapathons from new mappers anything from four to > twenty buildings each. This is from cleaning up in currently Malawi where > a fair number of iD mappers are still not managing to tag a building with > building=yes. > > If you are running just one session then validate by looking over their > shoulder. If more than one line up some resources to quickly validate and > use JOSM for this. The faster the feedback the better the response. > > If you are thinking of grading the work watch out for someone coming along > and either correcting the work as in validation or simply deleting it from > a quality point of view. Remember that some GIS people like to do > population estimates based on the square meters of the buildings so > accurate mapping helps. Buildings that are mapped at twice the proper size > screw up the population estimates. > > Have fun. > > Cheerio John > > > > On 23 Jan 2018 7:46 pm, "Jonathan Brown" wrote: > > > Looking for anyone who has done a BC2020i mapathon event with high school > > students. We are hoping to run one in Niagara, Durham and Northumberland > > regions this winter/spring. > > > > > > > > Jonathan > > > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-ca mailing list > > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/ > attachments/20180123/b948e5e5/attachment.html> > > -- > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > > -- > > End of Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 7 > *** > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:53 PM, john whelan wrote: > It should have been 60 per hour. Apols. I can probably map at one per five > seconds but new mappers did and will take much longer. The iD figures of > four to twenty buildings per mapathon session are real numbers. OK, you're right: 60 BPH is what you're saying. Both your numbers and the 4-20 BPMs (buildings-per-mapathon, not to be confused with buildings-per-minute) look respectable. I might be saying there are "sixty of those" and at a university mapathon or something like that you might get there. 1 BPS = 60 BPM. So, yeah! OSM is organic, it moves in fits and spurts. I'm not quite sure what Apols means. Thanks in advance if you clarify. > Do look at the steps involved in actual mapping in iD and JOSM. For > buildings in iD its select area four corners, square then select the correct > building tag from a number of choices. Lots of places to make a mistake. Like efficiency measurements where typing fingers are slow-motion recorded, you've clearly looked at this. I agree, lots of places to make a mistake which also means improvement is more than possible. > For JOSM building tool plugin its about three clicks per buildings and it > comes squared and tagged. There is a certain amount of setup but compared to > iD the data quality is much much better. Both Jo and myself have used this > approach. I was not working with high school aged mappers by the way. Ah, yes, this new thread is about high school students doing BC2020i. There is some road to pave, "you gotta be this tall" sorting hat thing, though sorting hats sort. > You need to plan this out very carefully for the best results. Yep: planning. Good. OSM is organic, it moves and grows in fits and spurts. Fantastic project. Fun, isn't it? (I enjoy this discussion, by the way). Great talking here. SteveA California ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
I agree that absolute novices unfamiliar with OSM are not what we might call "an ideal candidate," for BC2020i but it certainly has been and can be done. That said, "coming with Java preloaded" is a certain kind of "trigger warning" that "you have to be this tall to ride the ride." That's sort of a crude way to put it, yes. "Discovering OSM first on one's own" (iD, teeth cutting, tech chops, confidence in basic mapping, community, tenets and what it's about, standing tall, standing taller...) is fantastic. Come with Java installed, we have tools here and Elmer can walk you through it. For many, that's cool, awesome, fun and helpful, all at the same time! 60 per minute per building = 1 building per second. Congratulations to the communities of Canada and OSM: that's a cool measurement, right there. Is your average high school student up to this? Some are, some are less so. That's how it is. Spare mice, huh, perfect! QA at the beginning, middle and end, yeah. Banging on a certain large number of cylinders, check. Bulls-eye? Hey, closer and closer! Steve California ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
Buildings Canada? I was involved with something in Ottawa. I deliberately used JOSM and the building tool plugin. It went very smoothly and a fair number of buildings were accurately mapped. The mappers were requested to come with JAVA preinstalled. I had two laptops set up that new mappers could start off with and we had sufficient resources that we could take them fairly quickly through the steps and get them mapping. The number of buildings mapped per new mapper was in the order of 60 per minute. Make sure you have spare mice with you. There were a number of other mapathons as part of geoweek that used iD. Unfortunately the quality of mapping was not that high leading to compliants about the data quality. Building numbers from mapathons from new mappers anything from four to twenty buildings each. This is from cleaning up in currently Malawi where a fair number of iD mappers are still not managing to tag a building with building=yes. If you are running just one session then validate by looking over their shoulder. If more than one line up some resources to quickly validate and use JOSM for this. The faster the feedback the better the response. If you are thinking of grading the work watch out for someone coming along and either correcting the work as in validation or simply deleting it from a quality point of view. Remember that some GIS people like to do population estimates based on the square meters of the buildings so accurate mapping helps. Buildings that are mapped at twice the proper size screw up the population estimates. Have fun. Cheerio John On 23 Jan 2018 7:46 pm, "Jonathan Brown" wrote: > Looking for anyone who has done a BC2020i mapathon event with high school > students. We are hoping to run one in Niagara, Durham and Northumberland > regions this winter/spring. > > > > Jonathan > > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
Looking for anyone who has done a BC2020i mapathon event with high school students. We are hoping to run one in Niagara, Durham and Northumberland regions this winter/spring. Jonathan ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
