[Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM
Ahoj vespolek, trochu jsem hledal, jeslti by se nejakymi rozumne dostupnymi prostredky nedala zlepsit presnost tracklogu, zejmena ziskanych na kole, ale klidne i pesky a autem. Zlobi mne to hlavne pri rychlejsi jizde na kole spojene s rycheljsimi zmenami smeru (kdy Garmin 60CSx nestiha zatacet) a v lese, kde je presnost vubec na pytel (60CSx ani Holux M-1000C). Zacal jsem uvazovat o nejakem modulu, ktery by sbiral raw GPS data na dostatecne frekvenci, na nichz by se dal udelat postprocesing - ale ne v cenove kategorii 30.000CZK a vic (tedy profi GPS zarizeni). Narazil jsem dve firmicky, ktere neco takoveho delaji (a do jiste miry spolu i spolupracuji): Optimalsystem.de a OneTalent-GNSS. Navrhy desek dela Michele Bavaro pro obe firmy a primarne pracuje pro ten OneTalent-GNSS - nize najdete jak moje dotazy na neho, tak i jeho odpovedi. Prestoze vyjadruje skepsi kolem dosazeni presnosti 1m v lese (pricem 1m povazuji pro potreby OSM naprosto dostacujici), nicmene porad by to mohlo by podstatne zlepseni proti tomu, co mam ted. Uvazuji o jednom z nasledujicich modulu: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/denga10logbt http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/rappen10logbt Jinak data pro postprocesing by napr. pro okoli Brna mely byt zdarma dostupne ze site stanic EUREF: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/stationlist.php pro Brno napr. tady: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/siteinfo4onestation.php?station=TUBO_11503M001 Moje dotazy do fora: - Hrali jste si nekdo s necim podobnym? - Meli byste chut a cas se nekdo do toho taky pustit? Diky, Petr From: Michele Bavaro [mailto:mbav...@onetalent-gnss.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 10:19 PM To: Petr Holub Subject: Re: a module for accurate mapping for OSM Hello Petr, Thanks for getting in touch! It will be very difficult to guarantee 1m accuracy (standalone real-time or differential post-processed) under dense foliage. Trees are well known to disrupt carrier phase information which is essential to achieve such accuracies. There is something about it on the German forum Kowoma: http://www.kowoma.de/gpsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1t=3248p=14992#p14992 Denga10 and Rappen10 are not suitable. But their _LogBt or _LogWi version instead might work: they have a battery which will last a longer than 6hr, logging, and Bluetooth - or pretty much any other wireless communication system. Of course both have raw measurements but their carrier phase will be impaired under foliage as I wrote above. I am finalising the firmware in these days (today I had logging with fatfs and USB MSC running simultaneously finally) but -as it is quite experimental- I cannot really claim that is a set and forget kind of solution. Firmware is open though and if you have programming skills you may modify it to your needs. I am also working on enclosures... I have the bare boxes but I need to hand-tool them. If you are happy to do it by yourself I can make a discount: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/announcements/contributorsgetafreereceiver Unfortunately in any case I cannot make you a lower price than 250EUR+VAT+shipping as I hand assemble the boards and I don't sell many of them so I cannot reduce the price by producing volumes. I would love to help you but I understand that compared to a 100EUR logger it's a lot of money to invest. By the way, all new Mediatek receivers have 10Hz and very high sensitivity... the new MTK also has Glonass. ST Microelectronics has the STA8088FG which performs very well and it's very low cost. Not to mention of course the usual CSR GSD4E and Skytraq Venus.. Have you looked at Fastrax, Locosys, and GlobalTop? I am very happy to help an enthusiastic mapper, please let me know if I can do something else for you. Best regards, Michele On 7 October 2012 18:52, Petr Holub ho...@ics.muni.cz wrote: Hello, I'm looking for a GNSS module that could improve precision of my mapping efforts for Openstreetmap - mainly mountainbike trails and hiking paths in the Czech Republic (http://www.mtbmap.cz/). Up to now, I'm using Sirf3-based Garmin 60CSx mounted on the MTB handlebar, and MTK3329-based Holux M-1000C logger switched to 10Hz, mounted to my MTB helmet. While Garmin 60CSx produces reasonably precise results while hiking open-air, it has significantly worse behavior in hilly forests and 1Hz operation is not sufficient for accurately tracking shape of paths when riding fast on my bike. Holux provides improves tracking of fast motion, but it has usually significantly worse accuracy (i.e., wanders more) despite being mounted on top of my helmet and thus having good sky view. Thus I'm looking for a reasonably priced (400 EUR, ideally 200-300EUR) solution for more accurate logging of MTB trails, ideally at 4Hz or better and approx. 1m accuracy - obviously I don't need 1cm accuracy, but I'd like to have 1m accuracy even under forest foliage. I don't need precise real-time output (Garmin will work fine for real-time navigation; having,
Re: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM
Ahoj, nejsem si jist, zda si chces hrat s nekonvencnim merenim 2) nebo opravdu potrebujes jen lepsi klasicky pristroj 1). Nicmene problem lesa je predevsim vicecestne sireni signalu, utlum, terenni prekazky a voda po desti. 2) kodove mereni * frekvence vzorkovani signalu u kapesnich prijimacu neni problem 1hz, nikdy jsem se zatacenim nemel problem. Samozrejme v terenu vzdy existuje jista mira nejistoty/nepresnosti. * Garmin Vista co jsem mel byl pro mapovaci trackovani temer nepouzitelny 1) nekonformni mereni, tj. * fazova mereni * fazova mereni na vice GNSS * fazove mereni na vice frekvencich jednoho GNSS * fazove/kodove mereni s postprocessnim zpresnenim http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNSS * to o cem se pise nize v mailu je mereni fazove uplne odlisne od kodoveho, ma to sve vlastni problemy. Je hodne metod jak s tim pracovat... * abys mohl delat postprocessing potrebujes RINEX nebo podobny vystupni format a na korekce kdysi byl nejaky free sw, lze delat nad fazovym i kodovym merenim * samotne fazove mereni je nejednoznacne a ma problemy s prerusenim signalu Prakticky se mi to v roce 2007 nepodarilo dat dokupy sestavu s kodovym mereni+postproc. PS: jinak lesaci se touto problematikou docela casto bavi, napr: http://www.lesycr.cz/odborne-rady/granty-a-dotace/Documents/optimalizace_tds_pomoci_gps-web.pdf ha hanoj 2012/10/13 Petr Holub ho...@ics.muni.cz: Ahoj vespolek, trochu jsem hledal, jeslti by se nejakymi rozumne dostupnymi prostredky nedala zlepsit presnost tracklogu, zejmena ziskanych na kole, ale klidne i pesky a autem. Zlobi mne to hlavne pri rychlejsi jizde na kole spojene s rycheljsimi zmenami smeru (kdy Garmin 60CSx nestiha zatacet) a v lese, kde je presnost vubec na pytel (60CSx ani Holux M-1000C). Zacal jsem uvazovat o nejakem modulu, ktery by sbiral raw GPS data na dostatecne frekvenci, na nichz by se dal udelat postprocesing - ale ne v cenove kategorii 30.000CZK a vic (tedy profi GPS zarizeni). Narazil jsem dve firmicky, ktere neco takoveho delaji (a do jiste miry spolu i spolupracuji): Optimalsystem.de a OneTalent-GNSS. Navrhy desek dela Michele Bavaro pro obe firmy a primarne pracuje pro ten OneTalent-GNSS - nize najdete jak moje dotazy na neho, tak i jeho odpovedi. Prestoze vyjadruje skepsi kolem dosazeni presnosti 1m v lese (pricem 1m povazuji pro potreby OSM naprosto dostacujici), nicmene porad by to mohlo by podstatne zlepseni proti tomu, co mam ted. Uvazuji o jednom z nasledujicich modulu: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/denga10logbt http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/rappen10logbt Jinak data pro postprocesing by napr. pro okoli Brna mely byt zdarma dostupne ze site stanic EUREF: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/stationlist.php pro Brno napr. tady: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/siteinfo4onestation.php?station=TUBO_11503M001 Moje dotazy do fora: - Hrali jste si nekdo s necim podobnym? - Meli byste chut a cas se nekdo do toho taky pustit? Diky, Petr From: Michele Bavaro [mailto:mbav...@onetalent-gnss.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 10:19 PM To: Petr Holub Subject: Re: a module for accurate mapping for OSM Hello Petr, Thanks for getting in touch! It will be very difficult to guarantee 1m accuracy (standalone real-time or differential post-processed) under dense foliage. Trees are well known to disrupt carrier phase information which is essential to achieve such accuracies. There is something about it on the German forum Kowoma: http://www.kowoma.de/gpsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1t=3248p=14992#p14992 Denga10 and Rappen10 are not suitable. But their _LogBt or _LogWi version instead might work: they have a battery which will last a longer than 6hr, logging, and Bluetooth - or pretty much any other wireless communication system. Of course both have raw measurements but their carrier phase will be impaired under foliage as I wrote above. I am finalising the firmware in these days (today I had logging with fatfs and USB MSC running simultaneously finally) but -as it is quite experimental- I cannot really claim that is a set and forget kind of solution. Firmware is open though and if you have programming skills you may modify it to your needs. I am also working on enclosures... I have the bare boxes but I need to hand-tool them. If you are happy to do it by yourself I can make a discount: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/announcements/contributorsgetafreereceiver Unfortunately in any case I cannot make you a lower price than 250EUR+VAT+shipping as I hand assemble the boards and I don't sell many of them so I cannot reduce the price by producing volumes. I would love to help you but I understand that compared to a 100EUR logger it's a lot of money to invest. By the way, all new Mediatek receivers have 10Hz and very high sensitivity... the new MTK also has Glonass. ST Microelectronics has the STA8088FG which performs very well and it's very low cost. Not to mention
Re: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM
Já jsem v autě dosáhl slušných výsledků s Qstarz BT-Q1000X na 5 Hz v kombinaci s funkcí Kalman Filter v http://www.efficasoft.com/gpsutilities/windowsmobile_professional.html. Největší gró tam asi dělá ten Kalman filtr. Možná že by šlo použít pro postprocessing toto: https://github.com/lacker/ikalman Nicméně pro ostré zatáčky v lese by pomohl jedině GPS v kombinaci s gyroskopem/akcelerometrem. MK - Original Message - From: Petr Holub [mailto:ho...@ics.muni.cz] To: 'OpenStreetMap Czech Republic' [mailto:talk-cz@openstreetmap.org] Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:58:05 +0200 Subject: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM Ahoj vespolek, trochu jsem hledal, jeslti by se nejakymi rozumne dostupnymi prostredky nedala zlepsit presnost tracklogu, zejmena ziskanych na kole, ale klidne i pesky a autem. Zlobi mne to hlavne pri rychlejsi jizde na kole spojene s rycheljsimi zmenami smeru (kdy Garmin 60CSx nestiha zatacet) a v lese, kde je presnost vubec na pytel (60CSx ani Holux M-1000C). Zacal jsem uvazovat o nejakem modulu, ktery by sbiral raw GPS data na dostatecne frekvenci, na nichz by se dal udelat postprocesing - ale ne v cenove kategorii 30.000CZK a vic (tedy profi GPS zarizeni). Narazil jsem dve firmicky, ktere neco takoveho delaji (a do jiste miry spolu i spolupracuji): Optimalsystem.de a OneTalent-GNSS. Navrhy desek dela Michele Bavaro pro obe firmy a primarne pracuje pro ten OneTalent-GNSS - nize najdete jak moje dotazy na neho, tak i jeho odpovedi. Prestoze vyjadruje skepsi kolem dosazeni presnosti 1m v lese (pricem 1m povazuji pro potreby OSM naprosto dostacujici), nicmene porad by to mohlo by podstatne zlepseni proti tomu, co mam ted. Uvazuji o jednom z nasledujicich modulu: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/denga10logbt http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/ideas/wireless/rappen10logbt Jinak data pro postprocesing by napr. pro okoli Brna mely byt zdarma dostupne ze site stanic EUREF: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/stationlist.php pro Brno napr. tady: http://www.epncb.oma.be/_networkdata/siteinfo4onestation.php?station=TUBO_11503M001 Moje dotazy do fora: - Hrali jste si nekdo s necim podobnym? - Meli byste chut a cas se nekdo do toho taky pustit? Diky, Petr From: Michele Bavaro [mailto:mbav...@onetalent-gnss.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 10:19 PM To: Petr Holub Subject: Re: a module for accurate mapping for OSM Hello Petr, Thanks for getting in touch! It will be very difficult to guarantee 1m accuracy (standalone real-time or differential post-processed) under dense foliage. Trees are well known to disrupt carrier phase information which is essential to achieve such accuracies. There is something about it on the German forum Kowoma: http://www.kowoma.de/gpsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1t=3248p=14992#p14992 Denga10 and Rappen10 are not suitable. But their _LogBt or _LogWi version instead might work: they have a battery which will last a longer than 6hr, logging, and Bluetooth - or pretty much any other wireless communication system. Of course both have raw measurements but their carrier phase will be impaired under foliage as I wrote above. I am finalising the firmware in these days (today I had logging with fatfs and USB MSC running simultaneously finally) but -as it is quite experimental- I cannot really claim that is a set and forget kind of solution. Firmware is open though and if you have programming skills you may modify it to your needs. I am also working on enclosures... I have the bare boxes but I need to hand-tool them. If you are happy to do it by yourself I can make a discount: http://www.onetalent-gnss.com/announcements/contributorsgetafreereceiver Unfortunately in any case I cannot make you a lower price than 250EUR+VAT+shipping as I hand assemble the boards and I don't sell many of them so I cannot reduce the price by producing volumes. I would love to help you but I understand that compared to a 100EUR logger it's a lot of money to invest. By the way, all new Mediatek receivers have 10Hz and very high sensitivity... the new MTK also has Glonass. ST Microelectronics has the STA8088FG which performs very well and it's very low cost. Not to mention of course the usual CSR GSD4E and Skytraq Venus.. Have you looked at Fastrax, Locosys, and GlobalTop? I am very happy to help an enthusiastic mapper, please let me know if I can do something else for you. Best regards, Michele On 7 October 2012 18:52, Petr Holub ho...@ics.muni.cz wrote: Hello, I'm looking for a GNSS module that could improve precision of my mapping efforts for Openstreetmap - mainly mountainbike trails and hiking paths in the Czech Republic (http://www.mtbmap.cz/). Up to now, I'm using Sirf3-based Garmin 60CSx mounted on the MTB handlebar, and MTK3329-based Holux M-1000C logger switched to 10Hz, mounted to my MTB helmet. While Garmin 60CSx produces reasonably precise results while
Re: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM
Nicméně pro ostré zatáčky v lese by pomohl jedině GPS v kombinaci s gyroskopem/akcelerometrem. *** to mne taky uz napadlo proc se to v praxi nepouziva, vzdyt 3D akcelerometr a elekro-kompas ma uz kazdy Android hanoj ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM
Prý to je hodně špatné: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7829097/android-accelerometer-accuracy-inertial-navigation Třeba by se dalo něco sestavit na platformě Arduino, ale to by musel nějaký znalec... http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?topic=58048.0 http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,104951.0.html MK - Original Message - From: hanoj [mailto:eha...@gmail.com] To: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic [mailto:talk-cz@openstreetmap.org] Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:24:37 +0200 Subject: Re: [Talk-cz] presnejsi trackovani pro OSM Nicméně pro ostré zatáčky v lese by pomohl jedině GPS v kombinaci s gyroskopem/akcelerometrem. *** to mne taky uz napadlo proc se to v praxi nepouziva, vzdyt 3D akcelerometr a elekro-kompas ma uz kazdy Android hanoj ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
