Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meet up - Thursday 31st July
Rob, Anything that doesn’t get done tonight I can wrap up over the coming weeks. Cheers Andy From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com] Sent: 30 July 2014 22:52 To: talk-gb-westmidlands Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meet up - Thursday 31st July Looks like I'll tackle 3. I need something quick and easy as I don't think I'll have much time to map :-( Rob On 30 July 2014 21:29, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: I'll tackle 5 and 8 On 29 July 2014 11:00, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 29 July 2014 09:33, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: I knocked up a bit of a cake: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia#Next_meeting Mjam! Can I have 1 and 2 (bounded by New Road and Holly Hill Road)? -- Matthijs ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meet up - Thursday 31st July
Hi all, I have uploaded my bits to the map - in particular the industrial estate and the Midwest. Some houses still lack an address - in particularly the Northwest side of Footherley Lane, where I wasn't confident about my interpretation of the Bing image due to bad imagery quality. -- Matthijs On 31 July 2014 09:26, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, Anything that doesn’t get done tonight I can wrap up over the coming weeks. Cheers Andy *From:* Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com] *Sent:* 30 July 2014 22:52 *To:* talk-gb-westmidlands *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meet up - Thursday 31st July Looks like I'll tackle 3. I need something quick and easy as I don't think I'll have much time to map :-( Rob On 30 July 2014 21:29, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: I'll tackle 5 and 8 On 29 July 2014 11:00, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 29 July 2014 09:33, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: I knocked up a bit of a cake: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia#Next_meeting Mjam! Can I have 1 and 2 (bounded by New Road and Holly Hill Road)? -- Matthijs ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] Courier Delivery Points
Closest I'm aware of is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Packstationen Jerry On 31 July 2014 10:19, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: I'm seeing with increasing frequency secure delivery points with multiple boxes branded with various courier company logos. Is there an agreed way to tag these? regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Hi, This is a spin off from the recent thread about imports, because I wanted to specifically talk about NaPTAN imports. Having briefly scanned the various wiki pages, I get the impression that the NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What I can't see, or haven't found, is any discussion about how how often this data is updated. NaPTAN (and associated NPTG) is a live data set, and is changing continually as bus stops are brought into use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of service. As I think I have mentioned, one of the reasons that I am now on this group is because of the adoption of OSM by a number of traveline regions, whose members are the very local authorities that create and maintain the NaPTAN data (including Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that was mentioned in the earlier thread). We therefore have an interest in making sure that the stop data on OSM is as up to date as the mapping. Is there an appetite within the community to maintain and update this data? And if so, how would we go about it, and how often might it be updated? For the record, the data set is change dated, and deleted records are retained in the data for reference until (eventually) being archived (although even then the stops are still contained in a separate archive file). So I think that the process of updating can be made a) robust, and b) reversible. Regards, Stuart ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Likewise for Birmingham (and probably most of the west mids). Stop positions in NaPTAN were as much as 200m off and we still continue to reposition as an when we map out an area. This is an example of where NaPTAN is better updating its data from OSM rather than the other way around. Cheers Andy From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net] Sent: 31 July 2014 15:48 To: Stuart Reynolds; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at my request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable quality and resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having corrected a large percentage of the stops, I informed the Hull council team, at their request, who then ignored me. I would not want any NaPTAN data re-imported in this area unless I was sure the quality has very substantially improved. Some working relationship with the council team who maintain the data would help too. Cheers, Chris, osm user: chillly On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Hi, This is a spin off from the recent thread about imports, because I wanted to specifically talk about NaPTAN imports. Having briefly scanned the various wiki pages, I get the impression that the NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What I can’t see, or haven’t found, is any discussion about how how often this data is updated. NaPTAN (and associated NPTG) is a live data set, and is changing continually as bus stops are brought into use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of service. As I think I have mentioned, one of the reasons that I am now on this group is because of the adoption of OSM by a number of traveline regions, whose members are the very local authorities that create and maintain the NaPTAN data (including Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that was mentioned in the earlier thread). We therefore have an interest in making sure that the stop data on OSM is as up to date as the mapping. Is there an appetite within the community to maintain and update this data? And if so, how would we go about it, and how often might it be updated? For the record, the data set is change dated, and deleted records are retained in the data for reference until (eventually) being archived (although even then the stops are still contained in a separate archive file). So I think that the process of updating can be made a) robust, and b) reversible. Regards, Stuart _ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Hi, I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I could see some merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can remember that in the early days (2009?) there were bus stops on the data at the time that NaPTAN was imported. Some were sensibly merged, but some were deleted before the value of merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I don't think a witch hunt will help). Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and have updated NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have edited in the past is now in the right place the tags will be correct. However, some of the imported data was so inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether it should be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would show to actually be elsewhere. The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by line merging is going to be needed. I use the NOVAM - viewer from http://b3e.net/novam/ to check what needs doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my purpose). If you use this zoom into Swanley, Kent (just off J3 of M25), you will find there are several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add that data if you have it - just don't move the stop or change the other tags I've added please. You'll also see that I have marked some bus stops as 'not physically present'.. I think most mappers have worked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data (history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of the updates from 2009), but there are more recent articles at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport, and I'm not sure of what the current position is as the 'goal posts kept moving!' Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can understand and achieve would be good, because I personally just reached the stage where I made sure the bus stops were in the correct place with the right tags, and left the routes part completed. I can't offer to spend time importing on a line by line basis - I'm currently trying to get Ebola areas mapped in Africa! If I can help in other ways, let me know - it makes sense to me to present the data in a way it can actually be used by someone! Regards Nick (Tallguy) On 31/07/14 15:47, Chris Hill wrote: The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at my request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable quality and resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having corrected a large percentage of the stops, I informed the Hull council team, at their request, who then ignored me. I would not want any NaPTAN data re-imported in this area unless I was sure the quality has very substantially improved. Some working relationship with the council team who maintain the data would help too. Cheers, Chris, osm user: chillly On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Hi, This is a spin off from the recent thread about imports, because I wanted to specifically talk about NaPTAN imports. Having briefly scanned the various wiki pages, I get the impression that the NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What I can’t see, or haven’t found, is any discussion about how how often this data is updated. NaPTAN (and associated NPTG) is a live data set, and is changing continually as bus stops are brought into use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of service. As I think I have mentioned, one of the reasons that I am now on this group is because of the adoption of OSM by a number of traveline regions, whose members are the very local authorities that create and maintain the NaPTAN data (including Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that was mentioned in the earlier thread). We therefore have an interest in making sure that the stop data on OSM is as up to date as the mapping. Is there an appetite within the community to maintain and update this data? And if so, how would we go about it, and how often might it be updated? For the record, the data set is change dated, and deleted records are retained in the data for reference until (eventually) being archived (although even then the stops
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Many thanks - some interesting viewpoints there. I think it is safe to say that things will have improved from 2009, but also fair to admit that some data is not structured in the way that even I would like. Yorkshire is a particular problem for us. The good thing though is that NaPTAN is downloadable on an authority by authority basis and so we have scope for working through issues relatively local basis and perhaps later picking off authorities for individual auto updates once we've all agreed what that entails. On specifics, it is never going to be the case that NaPTAN will come from OSM. However, I'm keen to identify mismatches - missing stops in Swanley might be TfL infrastructure for example, while stop not present might represent custom and practice stops or virtual points on a hail and ride route. Where we can, we can update data. Looking to the future I am also keen to use OSM for those things that NaPTAN doesn't describe or which there is little will to populate. But that is a whole new discussion for another time. Would anyone who has made edits like to volunteer an area for me to start with? I live in Southend, and have direct contact with SE authorities and indirect contact with SW, EM and EA. Regards Stuart On 31 Jul 2014, at 17:02, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.commailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I could see some merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can remember that in the early days (2009?) there were bus stops on the data at the time that NaPTAN was imported. Some were sensibly merged, but some were deleted before the value of merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I don't think a witch hunt will help). Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and have updated NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have edited in the past is now in the right place the tags will be correct. However, some of the imported data was so inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether it should be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would show to actually be elsewhere. The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by line merging is going to be needed. I use the NOVAM - viewer from http://b3e.net/novam/ to check what needs doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my purpose). If you use this zoom into Swanley, Kent (just off J3 of M25), you will find there are several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add that data if you have it - just don't move the stop or change the other tags I've added please. You'll also see that I have marked some bus stops as 'not physically present'.. I think most mappers have worked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data (history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of the updates from 2009), but there are more recent articles at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport, and I'm not sure of what the current position is as the 'goal posts kept moving!' Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can understand and achieve would be good, because I personally just reached the stage where I made sure the bus stops were in the correct place with the right tags, and left the routes part completed. I can't offer to spend time importing on a line by line basis - I'm currently trying to get Ebola areas mapped in Africa! If I can help in other ways, let me know - it makes sense to me to present the data in a way it can actually be used by someone! Regards Nick (Tallguy) On 31/07/14 15:47, Chris Hill wrote: The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at my request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable quality and resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having corrected a large percentage of the stops, I informed the Hull council team, at their request, who then ignored me. I would not want any NaPTAN data re-imported in this area unless I was sure the quality has very substantially improved. Some working relationship with the council team who maintain the data would help too. Cheers, Chris, osm user: chillly On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00, Stuart Reynolds
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Stuart, If you would like to start in Swanley, that would be fine with me. I don't know about my neighbouring mappers, but I certainly use tools to check what edits are taking place in areas I have an interest. I strongly suggest you keep the area small, and use my area as a guinea pig, perhaps detailing what your aim is on a wiki page. As you've gathered 'mass imports' are something we all dread as we've put so much time effort into producing something useful, and we don't want to see it trampled. If you've got the route data available to you, you'll probably find that most of the 'not physically present' relate to the route now going elsewhere, which is why I've got bus stops elsewhere without NaPTAN data. It does get more complicated as I have two or more authorities involved. It's good to talk - I'll let you know if I'm unhappy you're welcome to contact me if you have a query. Regards Good luck. Nick (Tallguy) On 31/07/14 17:41, Stuart Reynolds wrote: Many thanks - some interesting viewpoints there. I think it is safe to say that things will have improved from 2009, but also fair to admit that some data is not structured in the way that even I would like. Yorkshire is a particular problem for us. The good thing though is that NaPTAN is downloadable on an authority by authority basis and so we have scope for working through issues relatively local basis and perhaps later picking off authorities for individual auto updates once we've all agreed what that entails. On specifics, it is never going to be the case that NaPTAN will come from OSM. However, I'm keen to identify mismatches - missing stops in Swanley might be TfL infrastructure for example, while stop not present might represent custom and practice stops or virtual points on a hail and ride route. Where we can, we can update data. Looking to the future I am also keen to use OSM for those things that NaPTAN doesn't describe or which there is little will to populate. But that is a whole new discussion for another time. Would anyone who has made edits like to volunteer an area for me to start with? I live in Southend, and have direct contact with SE authorities and indirect contact with SW, EM and EA. Regards Stuart On 31 Jul 2014, at 17:02, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I could see some merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can remember that in the early days (2009?) there were bus stops on the data at the time that NaPTAN was imported. Some were sensibly merged, but some were deleted before the value of merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I don't think a witch hunt will help). Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and have updated NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have edited in the past is now in the right place the tags will be correct. However, some of the imported data was so inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether it should be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would show to actually be elsewhere. The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by line merging is going to be needed. I use the NOVAM - viewer from http://b3e.net/novam/ to check what needs doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my purpose). If you use this zoom into Swanley, Kent (just off J3 of M25), you will find there are several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add that data if you have it - just don't move the stop or change the other tags I've added please. You'll also see that I have marked some bus stops as 'not physically present'.. I think most mappers have worked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data (history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of the updates from 2009), but there are more recent articles at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport, and I'm not sure of what the current position is as the 'goal posts kept moving!' Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can understand and achieve would be good, because I personally just reached the stage where I made sure the bus stops were
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 31/07/14 17:41, Stuart Reynolds wrote: Many thanks - some interesting viewpoints there. I think it is safe to say that things will have improved from 2009, but also fair to admit that some data is not structured in the way that even I would like. Yorkshire is a particular problem for us. East Yorkshire council seem to believe open data is casting pearls before swine. Hull City council have made noises for years about open data and do precisely nothing. The good thing though is that NaPTAN is downloadable on an authority by authority basis and so we have scope for working through issues relatively local basis and perhaps later picking off authorities for individual auto updates once we've all agreed what that entails. On specifics, it is never going to be the case that NaPTAN will come from OSM. Never is a very, very long time. I suspect OSM data (with quality public transport data) will be around long after NaPTAN has disappeared in a puff of bureaucratic smoke :-) However, I'm keen to identify mismatches - missing stops in Swanley might be TfL infrastructure for example, while stop not present might represent custom and practice stops or virtual points on a hail and ride route. Where we can, we can update data. Using NaPTAN updates as I use OS Locator data, i.e. a list of places to survey, would be useful. To do that an overlay with the updates on would be useful. If we find that the updates are repeatedly good quality then more of an import might be worth looking at. At the moment any direct imports of NaPTAN data would get a veto from me based on the only evidence we have at the moment: poor quality. Looking to the future I am also keen to use OSM for those things that NaPTAN doesn't describe or which there is little will to populate. But that is a whole new discussion for another time. Would anyone who has made edits like to volunteer an area for me to start with? I live in Southend, and have direct contact with SE authorities and indirect contact with SW, EM and EA. I could help create an overlay, though the Novam viewer was very helpful when I was surveying the stops in Hull (and nearly 800 in E. Yorsk before I gave up). Maybe the Novam viewer http://b3e.net/novam/ could be extended to show an updates overlay. I'd be particularly interested if any council has used the improved OSM data to bring their feed into NaPTAN up to scratch, and if not why not? -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Recent edits to estate agents / companies adding their own branches to OSM
Over the last few months user 'country_wide' has been systematically adding branches of estate agents as well as adding data to already mapped ones. Following recent communication I have confirmed that this is an official account for Countrywide PLC who own these branches. I have been mildly concerned by some of their changes to my ground surveyed edits. Specifically: 1. The word 'lettings' was added to several branch names despite the fact it doesn't appear on the signs displayed outside. Also, the ones I have checked are not primarily letting agents. These changes have now been reserved as far as I can see. 2. Deleting building tags or changing building=shop/retail/office to building=yes. A minor matter, but still problematic when done systematically. 3. An incident where a branch was added at a location that closed a year or two ago. I then corrected this following a ground survey, but it has since been put back at the wrong location despite me appropriately tagging the now vacant shop at the old location. Questions: 1. Is there an official policy regarding systematic edits of this sort? - i.e. companies who wish to add all their own shops/offices/etc. 2. Could these edits be considered an import? In this case hundreds of branches have been added over several months in separate changesets. My view is that such data should be welcome and encouraged if things are done in the right way, but there should be as much transparency as possible. I think OSM accounts operated by commercial bodies should make this clear. Also, they should not be absolved from treating existing ground surveyed data with care. Has this already been discussed elsewhere? Cheers, Will (will_p) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 31/07/14 18:31, Chris Hill wrote: I'd be particularly interested if any council has used the improved OSM data to bring their feed into NaPTAN up to scratch, and if not why not? As the naptan data has a nice unique identifier then it should be possible to do a clean compare of what is on OSM and the raw naptan data? If the location of a node is distance from the raw data, this can be tagged, and if other fields have updated then this data can be updated on OSM. Import wise, if a node already exists, then it would be dropped from a new import. This data really is a nice example that could be developed with data management tools that would then be usable with other data sets such as lamp posts, post boxes, telephone distribution cabinets and the like? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Probably not a convenient area for you, but I added bus stops in the Glasgow area from NAPTAN data a few years back, manually merging in with existing data and surveying those where it wasn't clear (and flagging a few cases that I didn't get a chance to survey). However it took quite a bit longer than I had anticipated soI didn't do any further areas. If you were to develop some way to compare NAPTAN OSM by reference/location, and then marking as close matches to existing (needing updated or not) or possible conflicts to be survey, etc, would be interesting. But has been noted, this probably has to be reviewed on a stop-by-stop basis, as there are so many potential issues with both the NAPTAN and OSM data. Cheers, Donald On 31 July 2014 19:18, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 31/07/14 18:31, Chris Hill wrote: I'd be particularly interested if any council has used the improved OSM data to bring their feed into NaPTAN up to scratch, and if not why not? As the naptan data has a nice unique identifier then it should be possible to do a clean compare of what is on OSM and the raw naptan data? If the location of a node is distance from the raw data, this can be tagged, and if other fields have updated then this data can be updated on OSM. Import wise, if a node already exists, then it would be dropped from a new import. This data really is a nice example that could be developed with data management tools that would then be usable with other data sets such as lamp posts, post boxes, telephone distribution cabinets and the like? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Donald Noble http://drnoble.co.uk - http://flickr.com/photos/drnoble ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 31/07/14 17:01, Nick Allen wrote: actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would show to actually be elsewhere. I've certainly found a lot of misplaced NaPTAN nodes, and ones where the logical stop has moved. The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by line merging is going to be needed. The OSM history mechanism is flawed in that it can only track one side of a merge (more generally, detaching a node from a way without creating a new node can be difficult, although not many NaPTAN nodes have been accidentally attached to ways). several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in the current database. A small proportion of NaPTAN data has gone missing either through personal mapping (people don't want the stops cluttering their map) or because people decided that the stop wasn't present, but never read the bit about leaving the node, marking physically_present=no and not a bus_stop. I've definitely seen the former and there are cases where the latter is the most obvious explanation. One of the things I find missing from the process is actually an audit against the original import, to recover those cases - or to detect deliberate damage to the imported information. Another issue with NaPTAN is stop area names. There is nothing on the ground to identify these, but the actual stop names change relatively frequently as landmarks come and go. Often stops within a stop area have different names. At the moment, this means that as you zoom out of the transport map, the name can change to one that is no longer/not used on the ground. I don't know if a re-merge would help with that, or whether there is a more fundamental problem with stop area names. On the more general issue of maintaining bulk data, I've found I've inherited several high streets where someone takes a photograph, maps it six months later, and never returns to check changes, something which really needs doing at least every three months. I have taken on maintaining those within a couple of kilometres, but I'm aware of other ones which I don't visit often enough to recognize changes, or detect errors in the original mapping. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Recent edits to estate agents / companies adding their own branches to OSM
On 31 July 2014 21:59, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I have occasinally seen people do this because they liked the rendering of building=yes more than that of some other building type. Don't know if this is still an issue. No, the stylesheet has been adapted in the meanwhile so this is no longer an issue. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
I have recently resurveyed all the bus stops in the centre of Nottingham (NG1 area) and quite a few changes have occurred since the NaPTAN import: most often changes to stop names but some more complicated changes to stop layouts too. I think the quality of the NaPTAN data must vary quite a lot between different areas, because I have generally found the position and names of stops in Nottingham to be accurate, other than the inevitable changes that have occurred since the import took place. I do not believe the stop areas should have been imported at all because they are not verifiable on the ground. Also, I am often unable to find much logic in the groupings other than the stops are relatively close together, so I don't think they are really useful. Like others I wouldn't support an automated update. Certainly in areas I've recently mapped, I believe this would be more likely to degrade rather than improve the data. However, it would be great to have better tools to check for discrepancies between the current NaPTAN data and the bus stops in OSM, including an easy way to merge the data on a stop-by-stop basis. Perhaps the NOVAM-Viewer could be extended for this purpose (as others have already suggested). The NaPTAN data was never imported in Derbyshire. When I was systematically surveying all the roads in Erewash (south Derbyshire), I assumed the import was going to occur at some point soon, so I didn't bother recording any bus stops because I wanted to avoid having to deal with duplicates later. I regret not doing so now. I have added them in some of this areas since, but there is still a lot to do. In these areas, where the data was not imported, it would be very useful to have an easy way to import the data over small areas, where local mappers want it to take place. Regards, Will ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
