Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 01/08/14 01:36, Will Phillips wrote: I do not believe the stop areas should have been imported at all because they are not verifiable on the ground. Also, I am often unable to find much logic in the groupings other than the stops are relatively close together, so I don't think they are really useful. This is where having a unique ID for ab object comes into it's own. That is if the data source allows you to access that data using it. All that needs to be in the OSM data is 'bus stop' and it's NaPTAN reference, and anything else comes from a secondary read. Although names and the like may be worth duplicating. Where a source of a data import is readily accessible, then we don't need to duplicate the 'non-mapping' data. It may be for some imports we need a private copy of the data to make this work nicely, but that should be a natural part of the import process anyway. A clean copy of what was imported. What is available and easily accessible is growing daily ... but it does not need to be all imported into one database :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
In Belgium Jo Simoens has done similar things for the public transport import of De Lijn (Flanders) and Tec (Wallonia). He has python scripts to compare OSM data via an external reference of De Lijn to updates in a Postgis DB. He also has scripts to compute the most likely route between bus stops. This information was not in the DB of De Lijn. regards m On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/14 01:36, Will Phillips wrote: I do not believe the stop areas should have been imported at all because they are not verifiable on the ground. Also, I am often unable to find much logic in the groupings other than the stops are relatively close together, so I don't think they are really useful. This is where having a unique ID for ab object comes into it's own. That is if the data source allows you to access that data using it. All that needs to be in the OSM data is 'bus stop' and it's NaPTAN reference, and anything else comes from a secondary read. Although names and the like may be worth duplicating. Where a source of a data import is readily accessible, then we don't need to duplicate the 'non-mapping' data. It may be for some imports we need a private copy of the data to make this work nicely, but that should be a natural part of the import process anyway. A clean copy of what was imported. What is available and easily accessible is growing daily ... but it does not need to be all imported into one database :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] osm 10th birthday: press
OK the press release is looking good, thanks Grant and hive mind! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NJjR5jZTCFR84apn3UoyzXKUyfkAG3-ceQ9rv1Rg6ZA/edit Now: if anyone has ideas of journalists who might be interested, please could you send me an email? Journalists who have written before about OSM, or journalists in mainstream media who you think might like it. Email me offlist to avoid deluging everyone. Send me their contact details, or if you prefer to make the contact yourself then just let me know and I'll send the tidied-up press release PDF to you for forwarding. Dan 2014-07-28 9:55 GMT+01:00 Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com: You are! Or someone else. :) Are you in a position to help? Please add target press to the document if you have any suggestions. I wonder if UCL press office would be interested, since Steve Coast was at UCL when it started, and UCL has been supportive of OSM over the years. Is there a UCL+OSM person who might chat to their press office? Dan 2014-07-28 9:49 GMT+01:00 Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com: Who's going to draw up the target list of press platforms to send this to and more importantly discover the correct contact? Regards Brian On 27 July 2014 23:20, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: Grant, Yes! Thanks for starting this. I've taken the liberty of being very bold. I've changed the tone to how press releases are normally written (essentially, written as if it was a newspaper article by a third party unconnected with osm), and I've even changed two of the paragraphs to appear as verbal quotes from you. I hope that's OK - it may seem a weird thing to do but it's good for press releases, helps give some life to the text and journalists would reuse the quote to give some life to the article. Can anyone help to update the stats please? We have raw stats like number of users, number of ways, but more interesting for journalists would be kilometres of roads etc - see some of the notes in that document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NJjR5jZTCFR84apn3UoyzXKUyfkAG3-ceQ9rv1Rg6ZA/edit?usp=sharing Dan 2014-07-27 13:55 GMT+01:00 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com: Hi All, OK, lets be crazy and try crowd source a 10th Birthday press release: Draft here, be bold, anyone can edit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NJjR5jZTCFR84apn3UoyzXKUyfkAG3-ceQ9rv1Rg6ZA/edit?usp=sharing Kind regards, Grant On 23 July 2014 21:23, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm looking forward to OSM's 10th birthday. It occurred to me that we should perhaps use it as a potential opportunity for some press coverage, ideally to get press coverage outside the usual tech/gis world. To do this we'd need some kind of event which makes a story. There are already plans for OSM birthday celebrations/meetups, and that's all good. I'm NOT talking about a social event but some event, perhaps even just brief, as long as it's got something that might appeal in a soft-news kind of sense. And maybe in London, since London is the birthplace of OSM. A couple of ideas: * We could organise a march following the route of the first ever GPS track (carrying Steve Coast aloft, sitting crosslegged on a splashmap) * We could visit the first ever tea-shop added to OSM, then the first ever park, then of course the first ever pub. We could give a plaque to each place to commemorate its place in history. To make it a press-worthy event, it needs to be something that we can write a press-release about in advance, and it needs to be something photogenic. So let's get more creative... * We could 3D-print a candle in the shape of all the OSM nodes in London! and put it on top of an earth-shaped cake! * We could print out a map of London at 1:1 scale... Anyone interested in working on something? Anyone got crazier ideas than me? Dan ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
OK. Clearly I’m going to have to think on this for a bit longer. I think looking at somewhere like Swanley is a good idea, and also at somewhere like Derbyshire if the stops data hasn’t been imported there. In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Stuart From: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 August 2014 9:12 AM To: Lester Caine Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import In Belgium Jo Simoens has done similar things for the public transport import of De Lijn (Flanders) and Tec (Wallonia). He has python scripts to compare OSM data via an external reference of De Lijn to updates in a Postgis DB. He also has scripts to compute the most likely route between bus stops. This information was not in the DB of De Lijn. regards m On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.ukmailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/14 01:36, Will Phillips wrote: I do not believe the stop areas should have been imported at all because they are not verifiable on the ground. Also, I am often unable to find much logic in the groupings other than the stops are relatively close together, so I don't think they are really useful. This is where having a unique ID for ab object comes into it's own. That is if the data source allows you to access that data using it. All that needs to be in the OSM data is 'bus stop' and it's NaPTAN reference, and anything else comes from a secondary read. Although names and the like may be worth duplicating. Where a source of a data import is readily accessible, then we don't need to duplicate the 'non-mapping' data. It may be for some imports we need a private copy of the data to make this work nicely, but that should be a natural part of the import process anyway. A clean copy of what was imported. What is available and easily accessible is growing daily ... but it does not need to be all imported into one database :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.orgmailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit into this? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Oliver, TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set of bus coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data. Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks until TNDS asks me to. Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street rather than down the main road. Cheers Stuart From: Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 August 2014 1:51 PM To: Stuart Reynolds Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.ukmailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit into this? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery
Hi all, Does anyone know the current status of the 2013 Hampshire County Council aerial imagery? The URLs previously given on this list[1] were for host faffy.openstreetmap.org which suffered from hardware failure during the server move in July. Other services such as os.openstreetmap.org are back up and running but I've been unable to find out what happened to the HCC images. [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2014-May/016027.html -- Regards, Andy Street ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery
Last I had from Grant earlier in the week was that the faffy hardware had been replaced but still needed to be set up. Matt needed and he was AWOL :-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Andy Street [mailto:a...@street.me.uk] Sent: 01 August 2014 15:02 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery Hi all, Does anyone know the current status of the 2013 Hampshire County Council aerial imagery? The URLs previously given on this list[1] were for host faffy.openstreetmap.org which suffered from hardware failure during the server move in July. Other services such as os.openstreetmap.org are back up and running but I've been unable to find out what happened to the HCC images. [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2014-May/016027.html -- Regards, Andy Street ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source. One of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is repair the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which sounds very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if TNDS is indirectly pulling data from OSM itself.. Oliver On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Oliver, TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set of bus coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data. Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks until TNDS asks me to. Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street rather than down the main road. Cheers Stuart *From:* Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* 01 August 2014 1:51 PM *To:* Stuart Reynolds *Cc:* Talk GB *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit into this? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery
Really should be AWL :-) as presumably he booked time off for his hols. On 1 August 2014 15:13, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Last I had from Grant earlier in the week was that the faffy hardware had been replaced but still needed to be set up. Matt needed and he was AWOL :-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Andy Street [mailto:a...@street.me.uk] Sent: 01 August 2014 15:02 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery Hi all, Does anyone know the current status of the 2013 Hampshire County Council aerial imagery? The URLs previously given on this list[1] were for host faffy.openstreetmap.org which suffered from hardware failure during the server move in July. Other services such as os.openstreetmap.org are back up and running but I've been unable to find out what happened to the HCC images. [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2014-May/016027.html -- Regards, Andy Street ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] HantsCC aerial imagery
On Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:13:27 +0100 Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Last I had from Grant earlier in the week was that the faffy hardware had been replaced but still needed to be set up. Matt needed and he was AWOL :-) Thanks for the update. I wasn't sure if faffy was being revived or the services had been relocated to another server and my URLs were out of date. I'll hang fire and wait for the admins to finish their work. -- Regards, Andy Street ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
I see it as being better to put the right hints into the OSM data and the routing algorithm so that they can be automatically chosen from the TNDS data, rather than having the data in OSM, which is hard to represent some complexities such as a few journeys go via a school, some are part route, etc Shaun On 1 Aug 2014, at 15:32, Oliver Jowett oliver.jow...@gmail.com wrote: Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source. One of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is repair the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which sounds very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if TNDS is indirectly pulling data from OSM itself.. Oliver On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Oliver, TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set of bus coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data. Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks until TNDS asks me to. Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street rather than down the main road. Cheers Stuart From: Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 August 2014 1:51 PM To: Stuart Reynolds Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit into this? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
The TNDS data isn't going to be based on what is already in OSM, if I've understood you correctly Oliver. Rather, in our bit, we import the GIS, route on it using proprietary (to our contractor) routing engines and manually adjust where appropriate, and then we can export the track coordinates as OSGR into the TNDS data. I haven't looked at the service tags in any detail, so what I'm about to say may well be there already. But if we want to represent the complexity then we either have to capture the individual departures at a stop or, more likely, try and represent the frequency/regularity of a service on a link. Then renderers could show dotted/thin lines, or put the service number in different colours for infrequent services. Of course, there are plenty of issues around that as well! Stuart From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] Sent: 01 August 2014 3:57 PM To: Oliver Jowett Cc: Stuart Reynolds; Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import I see it as being better to put the right hints into the OSM data and the routing algorithm so that they can be automatically chosen from the TNDS data, rather than having the data in OSM, which is hard to represent some complexities such as a few journeys go via a school, some are part route, etc Shaun On 1 Aug 2014, at 15:32, Oliver Jowett oliver.jow...@gmail.commailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com wrote: Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source. One of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is repair the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which sounds very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if TNDS is indirectly pulling data from OSM itself.. Oliver On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.ukmailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Oliver, TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other's benefit - national set of bus coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data. Certainly from our point of view - and by us I mean the traveline regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those problems have gone away. But I still won't be exporting Tracks until TNDS asks me to. Even then, it still has the issues of is this right. Most of the time it is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street rather than down the main road. Cheers Stuart From: Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.commailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 August 2014 1:51 PM To: Stuart Reynolds Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.ukmailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I'm not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit into this? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.orgmailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 01/08/14 16:37, Stuart Reynolds wrote: I haven’t looked at the service tags in any detail, so what I’m about to say may well be there already. But if we want to represent the complexity then we either have to capture the individual departures at a stop or, more likely, try and represent the frequency/regularity of a service on a link. Then renderers could show dotted/thin lines, or put the service number in different colours for infrequent services. Of course, there are plenty of issues around that as well! Which is one of the targets of the 'transport' layer? I't is certainly nice to hear that OSM is providing a stable base to work from, and since your own data needs to be accurate OSM benefits in return. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Just my tuppence, since I used the Naptan stop data to make a printed map. Electronic version here: http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/busmap/ My memory is that I corrected a lot of minor positional errors, and the occasional name/bearing. I had to add in a few stops that weren't in Naptan. I wouldn't want to lose these changes, but I'd quite like to fill in stuff from Naptan that has been updated/corrected. Perhaps we need a viewer that does comparisons both ways, so both sides can accept changes from the other side if they look better. I created almost all the route relations from scratch (which was painful, but would probably have been easier if I'd used the german editor). Anyway, it basically only has to be done once, and needs human review, so I'd probably recommend doing them by hand, rather than attempting to generate them automatically from a timetable. I used service to distinguish between city/country/express services. I put frequency on the route relation (ie typical off-peak weekday per-hour frequency), such as this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/143161 If it's less than once per hour I put journeys (ie per weekday) on the route relation. Sometimes I put journeys on stops (as a flag for not rendering them). The frequencies can be summed/combined for particular ways, if required. I had to bodge that a bit for my map, but I'll probably do it properly when (if) I update it, since Maperitive now has a python capability. Richard On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: The TNDS data isn’t going to be based on what is already in OSM, if I’ve understood you correctly Oliver. Rather, in our bit, we import the GIS, route on it using proprietary (to our contractor) routing engines and manually adjust where appropriate, and then we can export the track coordinates as OSGR into the TNDS data. I haven’t looked at the service tags in any detail, so what I’m about to say may well be there already. But if we want to represent the complexity then we either have to capture the individual departures at a stop or, more likely, try and represent the frequency/regularity of a service on a link. Then renderers could show dotted/thin lines, or put the service number in different colours for infrequent services. Of course, there are plenty of issues around that as well! Stuart *From:* Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] *Sent:* 01 August 2014 3:57 PM *To:* Oliver Jowett *Cc:* Stuart Reynolds; Talk GB *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import I see it as being better to put the right hints into the OSM data and the routing algorithm so that they can be automatically chosen from the TNDS data, rather than having the data in OSM, which is hard to represent some complexities such as a few journeys go via a school, some are part route, etc Shaun On 1 Aug 2014, at 15:32, Oliver Jowett oliver.jow...@gmail.com wrote: Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source. One of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is repair the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which sounds very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if TNDS is indirectly pulling data from OSM itself.. Oliver On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: Oliver, TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set of bus coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data. Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks until TNDS asks me to. Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street rather than down the main road. Cheers Stuart *From:* Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* 01 August 2014 1:51 PM *To:* Stuart Reynolds *Cc:* Talk GB *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk wrote: In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually! Where does TNDS fit
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
Just a few of my thoughts: 1. Bus routes Stuart wrote: I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that is mapped as one line Here in Coventry we have all the bus routes mapped in OSM (splitting the road as necessary). Check out the render on the Transport layer: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.4056/-1.5172layers=T 2. Novam Viewer I'm pleased to see that people are still using the Novam viewer. Was worth my effort to get it migrated to the new website when we changed our mappa-mercia.org site. :-P The Novam site was set up by OSM user Xoff who is no longer living in the UK (and is no longer actively updating Novam). We would need someone to be willing to take over this if we were to enhance it. http://www.mappa-mercia.org/novam 3. A comparison tool Perhaps we need a viewer that does comparisons both ways, so both sides can accept changes from the other side if they look better. Yes, this is a great test case for building such a tool. Something that could then be used for other imported data would be great. I'm happy to help with testing but have almost no programming experience so cannot help to develop it. Stuart, is this something that you would look to develop yourself? Marc wrote: In Belgium Jo Simoens has done similar things for the public transport import of De Lijn (Flanders) and Tec (Wallonia). This could be a good start. Do we have a link to the code? Regards, R ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Post NaPTAN edits (Cambridge area)
I've been reading the NaPTAN import thread, and saw a reference to the Novam viewer, which thinks that I should fix a few stops round here. Before I do that, I'd like to check that I'm going to do it right! Presumably I should simply update the positions of the stops, if necessary, based on ground survey (actually I've already done that -- I hope that wasn't wrong). I assume I should check the naptan:* tags are accurate and fix them if necessary. I also assume I should add a shelter=(yes|no) tag. But what about route_ref? Should I be setting this to a list such as route_ref=16;17? Some of the colour schemes in Novam complain about a missing route_ref, others don't, and I see the documentation http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bus_stop says Use of the tags 'route_ref'... in no longer recommended. If it makes any difference, route relations seem to have been set up round here (though I haven't checked whether they are complete). Though the stops are only linked to those relations by proximity, I Having done all that, should I simply delete the naptan:verified tag? Or should I leave it there and change it from no to yes? Anything else? -- Cheers, John ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
On 01/08/14 18:32, Richard Mann wrote: I created almost all the route relations from scratch (which was painful, but would probably have been easier if Id used the german editor). Anyway, it basically only has to be done once, and needs human review, so Id probably recommend doing them by hand, rather than attempting to generate them automatically from a timetable. I was going to add route relations, but with dozens of service additions and deletions, and several routes changing each year in my area, Teesside (some routes twice a year when residents find they have no bus service any more and mount a campaign to get it re-routed again) I decided it was going to be onerous to keep them updated, so didnt bother. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
