Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as such. The road here does have signs with the C designation. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016 I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree! Cheers Graham from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!) On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Hi I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local councils etc. It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some such similar. Was this agreed upon? If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit? Cheers Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On 04/05/2015 08:35, Graham Jones wrote: I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as such. The road here does have signs with the C designation. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016 I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree! The concensus I think is that if a road has had a C number added purely as a bookkeeping reference by the council, but doesn't appear on any signage, then a tag such as official_ref or admin_ref makes more sense. See previous discussions here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2013-April/thread.html#14788 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2014-August/thread.html#16392 (and others linked from those threads). http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=ref suggests more traction for official_ref over admin_ref. However yours looks more interesting than the usual OSM C road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25020986/history It looks like it was previously a B road (OOC maps suggest the B1268) and kept its number when it was downgraded. If it's a real ref on a real road sign I don't think that anyone would disagree with it being tagged with a C road ref. I've seen at least one other signposted one in North Yorkshire (north of Castle Howard somewhere - I suspect there are more) so it's not unique. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On 04/05/15 02:18, Dave F. wrote: Hi I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local councils etc. It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some such similar. Was this agreed upon? If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit? Cheers Dave F. If you go back in the archives of this list to 17/3/13 you will find a discussion labelled Refs on Tertiary and Unclassified Roads in Highland. You will perhaps not be surprised to see that there is no definitive outcome of the discussion but there are two suggestions (both seem to me to be perfectly sound) for alternative tags to use instead of ref= for these roads. The suggestions were official:ref= and official_ref=. I made a suggestion that we could use local:ref= but nobody seemed to think this was worth supporting. My reasoning was that these road references are maintained at a local level by Councils and have no national significance. Anyway I think that either of the tags which incorporate the word official seem to be acceptable. bogzab -- Dr Bogumil N Zaba ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On Mon, 2015-05-04 at 08:35 +0100, Graham Jones wrote: I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as such. The road here does have signs with the C designation. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016 I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree! That will probably only last until the council realise and order a new sign, there is government guidance to councils that these numbers should not be used on signs. A satnav saying to turn onto the C when it is not signed makes OSM look quirky to bad to someone who has just downloaded an app from the app store. In this case if you have surveyed it and it is signed then it would be helpful if it was tagged as signed=yes, or something similar. SomeoneElse I think he has used similar tagging for unsigned A roads. One obvious reason for not using C/D/U references is that they are not unique, the number will be reused in different counties which would be confusing. We would end up with a similar problems as France has after turning most of their N (National) roads to D (Departmental) where nearly every route now involves the D1 at some stage. Was so much easier before they changed it. I did do a test edit on changing ref=C/D/U to official_ref, however I reverted it after some problems mostly with path number continuing onto roads (which never happens) and I had not created a wiki page (have no idea how to do that), just had general agreement here. I have been surveying out the ones in Wrexham, but that takes time. I do know that the guy who added them worked for the council, I suspect Norfolk and Pembrokeshire are similar, I did no see any signed C roads in Pembrokeshire last year. I would like to see this issue resolved, obviously surveying is just too big a task for a community of this size, so a mechanical edit is the only way. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
I once saw some friends on Facebook discussing the state of a road local to them in Dorset, and they referred to it by its C number throughout. Personally, I quite like the fact that our map has C numbers on where other maps don't. What I don't like, though, is seeing U numbers for unclassified roads, which are cluttering up the map of my home area (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.42292/0.34775). Steve On 04/05/2015 08:35, Graham Jones wrote: I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as such. The road here does have signs with the C designation. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016 I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree! Cheers Graham from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!) On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Hi I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local councils etc. It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some such similar. Was this agreed upon? If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit? Cheers Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On 04/05/2015 10:50, Philip Barnes wrote: In this case if you have surveyed it and it is signed then it would be helpful if it was tagged as signed=yes, or something similar. SomeoneElse I think he has used similar tagging for unsigned A roads. FWIW I've used name:signed=no and ref:signed=no where appropriate, but there's no concensus around that: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/ref%3Asigned#overview http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/name%3Asigned#overview Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On 04/05/2015 11:10, Steve Doerr wrote: Personally, I quite like the fact that our map has C numbers on where other maps don't. What I don't like, though, is seeing U numbers for unclassified roads, which are cluttering up the map of my home area (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.42292/0.34775). ... what _I_ like is the ability to create a map that shows whatever I want it to show! I certainly don't see the standard style as our map (singular) - it's just one of many and these days isn't particularly useful for what I normally use a map for. That doesn't mean that it isn't a good compromise though - there can't be one perfect style for every possible use. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Road-name oddity in Bath
See also the Comments section here: http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/8203-Victoria-Bridge-passageway-close-weeks/story-23347562-detail/story.html#comments Steve On 04/05/2015 00:37, Dave F. wrote: Hi Andy While what was there before certainly wasn't correct I don't believe Nick Austin's recent edits correct the situation. There certainly is a Stanier Road along that stretch along with an Ivo Peters Rd. Where those two concatenate is uncertain. ITO has no Ivo Peters: http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=350785,152770,380729,171227referrer=area However there is an Ivo Peters road sign. https://goo.gl/maps/Or3TH I've re edited to what I think is the correct layout, but wiling to be proven wrong. Dave F. On 02/05/2015 18:49, Andy Mabbett wrote: Around: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.38137mlon=-2.37016#map=19/51.38137/-2.37016 Stanier Road seems to become Ivo Peters Road, then Stanier Road again Meanwhile, slightly to the NE, there is another Ivo Peters Road. Is something mis-tagged? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
Well, the C refs are are cluttering up the map of my home area ( others, by the sound of it). I recently used a screen grab of the area in my OP. I got more replies about the displaying of the C refs than what I was actually trying to describe - It just confused people. It's not removing the data just reassigning it to a more appropriate tag. A render displaying them can still be created. As I said, if they're just used for authorities internally, then I don't see their relevance on the 'standard' map. Dave F. On 04/05/2015 11:10, Steve Doerr wrote: I once saw some friends on Facebook discussing the state of a road local to them in Dorset, and they referred to it by its C number throughout. Personally, I quite like the fact that our map has C numbers on where other maps don't. What I don't like, though, is seeing U numbers for unclassified roads, which are cluttering up the map of my home area (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.42292/0.34775). Steve On 04/05/2015 08:35, Graham Jones wrote: I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as such. The road here does have signs with the C designation. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016 I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree! Cheers Graham from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!) On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Hi I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local councils etc. It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some such similar. Was this agreed upon? If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit? Cheers Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Avast logo http://www.avast.com/ This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com http://www.avast.com/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?
On 04/05/2015 10:50, Philip Barnes wrote: I did do a test edit on changing ref=C/D/U to official_ref, however I reverted it after some problems mostly with path number continuing onto roads (which never happens) There needs to be adequate verifying which is why it should be done by someone with previous experience of mech edits. Things to test for: Is it a tertiary way Does it have a ref that starts with 'C' Is it followed by a number? Is the number 4 characters (unsure if there are any with 4 digits) Does it already have a 'official_ref' tag? etc If there are tertiary ways that don't meet the above criteria they should be listed in some form of text file for individual editing if appropriate. Dave F. and I had not created a wiki page (have no idea how to do that), just had general agreement here. I have been surveying out the ones in Wrexham, but that takes time. I do know that the guy who added them worked for the council, I suspect Norfolk and Pembrokeshire are similar, I did no see any signed C roads in Pembrokeshire last year. I would like to see this issue resolved, obviously surveying is just too big a task for a community of this size, so a mechanical edit is the only way. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Quarterly Project All things delivery-related - an update
It's now May and the project is a month old and with two months to go, it's time for an update. Robert Whittaker has an excellent site http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postboxes/ monitoring OSM data on postboxes in the UK. Here you can see progress (even a league table of who's contributing). From the history graph you can see there's been an increase in activity since the project got going. Perhaps Robert might provide some data analysis about the effect of the project. Enter a postcode and you can find all the missing and incorrect postboxes nearby. I was amazed at just how many were missing in the areas I map regularly: a great incentive to revisit all kinds of places. In doing so I discovered one of those rarities: an EVIIIR royal cypher(OSM node 448635608). (For non-UK readers King Edward VIII was only on the throne for about 11 months in 1936 before abdicating so there are only about 130 postboxes bearing the royal cypher EVIIIR, these being the ones installed during those 11 months) How many of these are actually recorded in OSM? It would make a great treasure hunt for the rest of the project. From web research I think there are only 2 in Birmingham so my job's done. I've been unable to track down some of the indoor postboxes - two in particular are indicated in Sainsbury's supermarkets near me, but neither exists. This led me to wonder whether Sainsbury's had some kind of agreement with Royal Mail which didn't work out so they were removed. But you can't build a hypothesis on two pieces of data! Does anyone have any knowledge of this? Or replicate my findings? In the West Midlands we've had some fun trying to locate the Coventry ParcelForce depot which is NOT where Google thinks it is. It moved over two years ago and is now mapped in OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.4583/-1.5259 . Thanks must go to our local sleuth: spiffymapper. Parcel Lockers http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom/Parcel_Lockers are poorly mapped - only 8 existed in OSM for the UK at the start of the project. Now there are 11 . It turns out that one of the operators, ByBox, has its national distribution centre in Coventry so time for spiffymapper to get his sleuthing shoes on again! Any other stories on what folk have been up to on this project are welcome. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
