Re: [Talk-GB] Dual Aperture Postboxes

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 2 October 2015 at 23:18, SK53  wrote:
> I noted today a number of post boxes with two apertures, one for stamped
> mail, the other for franked mail. Each side of the box has a separate plate
> & distinct refs.I would have expected these to have been mapped as  "ref=RF1
> 1;RF1 2", with some explanatory text to explain that this is one & the same
> post-box.
>
> I find that one such has been mapped as two nodes placed directly on top of
> each other:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1149760519
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1149765602
>
> This is not wholly unreasonable, there are functionally two different
> posting places located in a single post box. It also shows that the OSM tag
> name which is perfectly accurate about 99.99% of the time, isn't totally
> precise.

I've always mapped dual-aperture boxes as a single node, with ref="RF1
1;RF1 2" (and post_box:apertures=2) as you suggested. I've done this
on the grounds that it's a single physical object, albeit with two
slots that could have different attributes. If the two slots have very
different properties, then I could see there would be a case for
mapping as two nodes, but I think that's probably a bit over the top
in general. e.g. if one slot does first-class and the other second,
then there's really not that much difference as far as users are
concerned between that case and the case of a normal box that just
accepts both mail types in a single slot. However, if there are
different collection times for the different types of mail in the
different slots then it would get harder to tag properly, so we might
need to revisit things if that ever arises...

Robert.

-- 
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http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/

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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Dave F.]

I'm not convinced 'preemptive' edits, especially when the editor appears 
to have no valid maxheight data, is justifiable.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458#map=14/52.4077/-0.9628

Even if he did, the ways are being arbitrarily split only once, often a 
long way from the bridge.


From the wiki:
"only the approximate section of the way which is under the bridge 
should be tagged with maxheight"


Dave F.


On 05/10/2015 16:21, Andy Townsend wrote:

(let's try that again with an actual message)

I did have a bit of a conversation on some of the earliest of their changesets, but didn't really 
get a sense of why the roads were being split. You could argue that splitting a piece out 
"prior to surveying what the height restriction actually is" is ok, but i'd be worried 
that the "surveying" bit wouldn't actually happen. In one of the changeset discussions it 
was suggested to me that I could verify a height restriction by looking at GSV; naturally I 
mentioned that this would be an inappropriate source for OSM (and to be fair, when I last looked a 
few days ago I was unable to see any GSV-sourced heights.
  ‎
I'm away for a few days dodging raindrops in Wales so won't be able to deal 
with it directly, but as ever the best way of bringing it to the DWG's 
attention is the usual ‎d...@osmfoundation.org email address.

Cheers,
Andy (SomeoneElse)
‎

   Original Message
From: Philip Barnes
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2015 12:37
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

Message either SomeoneElse or zool in #talk-gb.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Mon Oct 5 12:31:09 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:

Dataone is at it again. He's not replied to my post.

As each edit is an individual changeset & therefore laborious to revert,
I think a temporary stop should be placed on him (both?) just until
their attentions are grabbed. Is there anyone on this forum able to it
or should I post in the talk forum?

Dave F.

On 05/10/2015 11:21, Tom Hukins wrote:

On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:

Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).

I've left a comment on this changeset. Hopefully this will help us
understand what's going on.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Richard Phillips

[Brian Prangle]

Will

My sincere condolences to you and your family on your loss, and also from
fellow mappers in the West Midlands. Our loss is nowhere near as great as
yours, but a loss nonetheless. Evesham is  a beacon area  on how to map
with OSM and represents many hours of dedicated effort. It's certainy
something we should maintain and not allow to degrade. ( I think I met your
father at the OSM 10th birthday party which we organised in the West
Midlands.)

Regards

Brian

On 5 October 2015 at 14:07, Will Phillips  wrote:

> My father Richard Phillips has recently died. His user page is at
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard%20Phillips
>
> He mapped regularly in the Vale of Evesham area since joining OSM in late
> 2009. His recent mapping interests included rights of way, listed buildings
> and other heritage features, such as plaques and public artwork.
>
> Last year I helped him set up the Evesham Mapped website (
> http://evesham-mapped.org.uk/map/). He gave a talk about this at the
> BCS-SoC Conference in September.
>
> Up to now there have been few other regular mappers in the Evesham area,
> but I hope in time others will appear to maintain and build on the data
> there.
>
> If anybody would like more details, please contact me off list.
>
> Will Phillips
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/will_p/
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Andy Townsend]

(let's try that again with an actual message)

I did have a bit of a conversation on some of the earliest of their changesets, 
but didn't really get a sense of why the roads were being split. You could 
argue that splitting a piece out "prior to surveying what the height 
restriction actually is" is ok, but i'd be worried that the "surveying" bit 
wouldn't actually happen. In one of the changeset discussions it was suggested 
to me that I could verify a height restriction by looking at GSV; naturally I 
mentioned that this would be an inappropriate source for OSM (and to be fair, 
when I last looked a few days ago I was unable to see any GSV-sourced heights.
 ‎
I'm away for a few days dodging raindrops in Wales so won't be able to deal 
with it directly, but as ever the best way of bringing it to the DWG's 
attention is the usual ‎d...@osmfoundation.org email address.

Cheers,
Andy (SomeoneElse)
‎

  Original Message  
From: Philip Barnes
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2015 12:37
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

Message either SomeoneElse or zool in #talk-gb.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Mon Oct 5 12:31:09 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:
> Dataone is at it again. He's not replied to my post.
> 
> As each edit is an individual changeset & therefore laborious to revert, 
> I think a temporary stop should be placed on him (both?) just until 
> their attentions are grabbed. Is there anyone on this forum able to it 
> or should I post in the talk forum?
> 
> Dave F.
> 
> On 05/10/2015 11:21, Tom Hukins wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:
> >> Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
> >> user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
> > I've left a comment on this changeset. Hopefully this will help us
> > understand what's going on.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ___
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[Talk-GB] Missing Nature Reserves: umap

[SK53]

I've had a quick go using the Natural England & Scottish Natural Heritage
files to identify potentially missing (or missing bits of) Nature Reserves
in England & Scotland. (Welsh data is definitely not open).

All I did was check to see if the centroid of a nature reserve from one of
the national datasets fell inside an OSM polygon. Works most of the time,
but not for the odd funny shaped reserves. The files were polygons so
complex NRs which are missing appear multiple times (see St Kilda, Rum etc).

National Nature Reserves I've shown in red, Local ones in blue.
umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/potential-missing-local-nature-reserves-on-osm_55319#10/51.5933/-0.1744

There are a few large ones which it should be easy to sort out (Richmond
Park for instance), but many others will require a bit of sleuthing to
identify their boundaries without using the shape files. Personally I'd
rather see boundaries based on surveys, particularly when the boundary
corresponds to other on-the-ground features.

Jerry
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Philip Barnes]

Message either SomeoneElse or zool in #talk-gb.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Mon Oct 5 12:31:09 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:
> Dataone is at it again. He's not replied to my post.
> 
> As each edit is an individual changeset & therefore laborious to revert, 
> I think a temporary stop should be placed on him (both?) just until 
> their attentions are grabbed. Is there anyone on this forum able to it 
> or should I post in the talk forum?
> 
> Dave F.
> 
> On 05/10/2015 11:21, Tom Hukins wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:
> >> Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
> >> user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
> > I've left a comment on this changeset.  Hopefully this will help us
> > understand what's going on.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Dave F.]

Dataone is at it again. He's not replied to my post.

As each edit is an individual changeset & therefore laborious to revert, 
I think a temporary stop should be placed on him (both?) just until 
their attentions are grabbed. Is there anyone on this forum able to it 
or should I post in the talk forum?


Dave F.

On 05/10/2015 11:21, Tom Hukins wrote:

On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:

Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).

I've left a comment on this changeset.  Hopefully this will help us
understand what's going on.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Tom Hukins]

On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:
> Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
> user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).

I've left a comment on this changeset.  Hopefully this will help us
understand what's going on.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Dan S]

Hi all,

I might be able to help with Lea Valley - especially the central
London end of it. I've been mostly too busy for OSM this year, but
should try and get to some of the NRs...

Best
Dan


2015-10-05 10:43 GMT+01:00 SK53 :
> Hi Steve,
>
> The local hotspot around you is the Lea Valley. Various patches along the
> river & navigation will be nature reserves. It's a well known haunt of
> Bitterns in the Winter.
>
> Otherwise Middlesex is a bit thin. You can just make out LNRs & SSSIs on
> this map I made from OS Open Data designed to assist biological recording.
> They are shown as a diagonal or cross-hatch. There seem to be a couple up
> near Barnet, and some big ones missing N of Stanmore in Middlesex, and the
> Welsh Harp reservoir isn't shown as one.
>
> The usual sources for finding nature reserves and other places of wildlife
> interest which I use are;
>
> local Wildilife Trust. Usually the organisation with most reserves in a
> given county or group of counties. In your case these are London, Herts  &
> Essex Wildlife Trusts. It's not a bad idea to target getting all the WT
> reserves done.
> local Council. For Country Parks & LNRs.
> local Bird Club. Most bird club websites have quite good accounts of popular
> birding locations. Many of these will be nature reserves.
> local natural history books. Try the local studies section of a public
> library. For instance Herts WT have published very detailed volumes about
> Moths & Plants quite recently. These usually have a good account of
> significant sites which will be more likely than not nature reserves.
> local field club or natural history society. These don't exist everywhere,
> but where they do you are likely to find people extremely familiar with not
> just nature reserves but lots of detail of local topography.
> other conservation orgs: RSPB, Wildlife Trust, WWT, Buglife, Plant Life etc.
> Natural England (lists of LNRs, SSSIs)
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On 5 October 2015 at 09:56, Steve Chilton  wrote:
>>
>> Can you point me to a source for identifying NRs near me (L B of Enfield),
>> and I will try to get out to them and do a bit of boundary and path network
>> mapping where possible?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> From: SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 05 October 2015 09:29
>> To: Brian Prangle
>> Cc: Talk GB
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite
>> difficult to find actual boundaries.
>>
>> Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on
>> Saturday and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is
>> difficult. Similarly, over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging
>> emails with NT Eastern Office about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much
>> new land over the past few years that they dont have a ready to use map of
>> the reserve. Another one is the new RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey,
>> which is the site of a massive managed retreat and new sea wall breach. This
>> was brought to my attention by Liz Scott (@birdmaps). Lastly, I haven't even
>> resolved the bounds of Attenborough NR: the staff now manage the area in
>> Derbyshire labelled Erewash Field on OSM. I don't know if it has been
>> formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the current mapping is a
>> sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust operate a
>> reserve in Derbyshire).
>>
>> There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs.
>> I think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry
>> inspire data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always
>> treated them as not fully open. Some local authorities have open data
>> showing boundaries of LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not
>> coincident. NRs depend on either landowner agreement, or willingness to sell
>> land; SSSIs are based on conservation importance. And of course, some NRs
>> have geological SSSIs in their midst which are much smaller than the NR.
>>
>> The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks
>> and access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start
>> mapping the things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but
>> not sufficient condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from
>> this point of view (including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such
>> as Wappenbury & Ryton, the last of which I visited at end of August.
>> Similarly both Wyre Forest & Werneth Low which I visited in September lack
>> many paths.
>>
>> There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for
>> the blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
>>
>> My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details
>> of NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks
>> (there are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
>>
>> One other ple

Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[SK53]

Hi Steve,

The local hotspot around you is the Lea Valley. Various patches along the
river & navigation will be nature reserves. It's a well known haunt of
Bitterns in the Winter.

Otherwise Middlesex is a bit thin. You can just make out LNRs & SSSIs on
this map  I made from OS Open Data designed to
assist biological recording. They are shown as a diagonal or cross-hatch.
There seem to be a couple up near Barnet, and some big ones missing N of
Stanmore in Middlesex, and the Welsh Harp reservoir isn't shown as one.

The usual sources for finding nature reserves and other places of wildlife
interest which I use are;

   - local Wildilife Trust. Usually the organisation with most reserves in
   a given county or group of counties. In your case these are London
   , Herts
   & Essex
   Wildlife Trusts. It's not a bad idea to
   target getting all the WT reserves done.
   - local Council. For Country Parks & LNRs.
   - local Bird Club. Most bird club websites have quite good accounts of
   popular birding locations. Many of these will be nature reserves.
   - local natural history books. Try the local studies section of a public
   library. For instance Herts WT have published very detailed volumes about
   Moths & Plants quite recently. These usually have a good account of
   significant sites which will be more likely than not nature reserves.
   - local field club or natural history society. These don't exist
   everywhere, but where they do you are likely to find people extremely
   familiar with not just nature reserves but lots of detail of local
   topography.
   - other conservation orgs: RSPB, Wildlife Trust, WWT, Buglife, Plant
   Life etc.
   - Natural England (lists of LNRs, SSSIs)

Jerry

On 5 October 2015 at 09:56, Steve Chilton  wrote:

> Can you point me to a source for identifying NRs near me (L B of Enfield),
> and I will try to get out to them and do a bit of boundary and path network
> mapping where possible?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 05 October 2015 09:29
> *To:* Brian Prangle
> *Cc:* Talk GB
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015
>
>
>
> I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite
> difficult to find actual boundaries.
>
> Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on
> Saturday and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is
> difficult. Similarly, over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging
> emails with NT Eastern Office about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much
> new land over the past few years that they dont have a ready to use map of
> the reserve. Another one is the new RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey,
> which is the site of a massive managed retreat and new sea wall breach.
> This was brought to my attention by Liz Scott (@birdmaps). Lastly, I
> haven't even resolved the bounds of Attenborough NR: the staff now manage
> the area in Derbyshire labelled Erewash Field
>  on OSM. I don't know if it
> has been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the current mapping is
> a sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust operate a
> reserve in Derbyshire).
>
> There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs.
> I think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry
> inspire data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always
> treated them as not fully open. Some local authorities have open data
> showing boundaries of LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not
> coincident. NRs depend on either landowner agreement, or willingness to
> sell land; SSSIs are based on conservation importance. And of course, some
> NRs have geological SSSIs in their midst which are much smaller than the NR.
>
> The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks
> and access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start
> mapping the things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but
> not sufficient condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from
> this point of view (including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such
> as Wappenbury & Ryton, the last of which I visited at end of August.
> Similarly both Wyre Forest & Werneth Low which I visited in September lack
> many paths.
>
> There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for
> the blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
>
> My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details
> of NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks
> (there are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
>
> One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know
> them to be meadows: Dudley wrote someth

Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[David Fisher]

Hi all,

Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
The only thing that occurred to me is that all the edits involved ways
passing over or under railway lines... although like Dave F I can't
see what the actual improvement is.

Both "dataOne" and "Zain Ahmad Hashmi" joined Sep 15th, 2015, and seem
to have done nothing other than a large number of similar edits.
Either they're the same person/bot, or there's some source somewhere
that is encouraging such edits for whatever reason.

Thanks,
David. (user Pgd81)



On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:56 PM, David Woolley
 wrote:
> On 02/10/15 20:26, Philip Barnes wrote:
>>
>> On Fri Oct 2 14:47:05 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> A new editor has started splitting roads in my locale, but from what I
>>> can see making no tagging amendments. Am I missing something? If not I'd
>>> like to halt him before there's too much damage.
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dataOne/history#map=11/51.2981/-1.9753
>>>
>>> I've sent a message asking for clarification.
>>>
>> I can see nothing othet than the splits, don't think you have missed
>> anything.
>>
>
> Even if this is a botched attempt at legitimate changes, the scale of the
> process makes it look like an un-sourced bulk import, possibly from an
> ineligible source.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Steve Chilton]

Ok, a quick search suggests that there is only one in Enfield (Covert Way) – 
which I have details for now from the NE site.
I am surprised, considering how ‘green’ the west side of the Borough seems.
Maybe I need to check the Lea Valley Park for status of the constituents parts 
of that.

Cheers
Steve

From: Steve Chilton [mailto:s.l.chil...@mdx.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 October 2015 09:57
To: SK53; Brian Prangle
Cc: Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

Can you point me to a source for identifying NRs near me (L B of Enfield), and 
I will try to get out to them and do a bit of boundary and path network mapping 
where possible?

Cheers
Steve

From: SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com]
Sent: 05 October 2015 09:29
To: Brian Prangle
Cc: Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite 
difficult to find actual boundaries.
Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on Saturday 
and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is difficult. Similarly, 
over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging emails with NT Eastern Office 
about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much new land over the past few years 
that they dont have a ready to use map of the reserve. Another one is the new 
RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey, which is the site of a massive managed 
retreat and new sea wall breach. This was brought to my attention by Liz Scott 
(@birdmaps). Lastly, I haven't even resolved the bounds of Attenborough NR: the 
staff now manage the area in Derbyshire labelled Erewash 
Field on OSM. I don't know if it 
has been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the current mapping is a 
sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust operate a reserve 
in Derbyshire).
There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs. I 
think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry inspire 
data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always treated them as 
not fully open. Some local authorities have open data showing boundaries of 
LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not coincident. NRs depend on 
either landowner agreement, or willingness to sell land; SSSIs are based on 
conservation importance. And of course, some NRs have geological SSSIs in their 
midst which are much smaller than the NR.
The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks and 
access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start mapping the 
things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but not sufficient 
condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from this point of view 
(including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such as Wappenbury & Ryton, 
the last of which I visited at end of August. Similarly both Wyre Forest & 
Werneth Low which I visited in September lack many paths.
There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for the 
blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details of 
NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks (there 
are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know them 
to be meadows: Dudley wrote something about this in the past.
Regards,
Jerry

On 5 October 2015 at 08:39, Brian Prangle 
mailto:bpran...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi everyone
For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves
Regards
Brian

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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Steve Chilton]

Can you point me to a source for identifying NRs near me (L B of Enfield), and 
I will try to get out to them and do a bit of boundary and path network mapping 
where possible?

Cheers
Steve

From: SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com]
Sent: 05 October 2015 09:29
To: Brian Prangle
Cc: Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite 
difficult to find actual boundaries.
Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on Saturday 
and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is difficult. Similarly, 
over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging emails with NT Eastern Office 
about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much new land over the past few years 
that they dont have a ready to use map of the reserve. Another one is the new 
RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey, which is the site of a massive managed 
retreat and new sea wall breach. This was brought to my attention by Liz Scott 
(@birdmaps). Lastly, I haven't even resolved the bounds of Attenborough NR: the 
staff now manage the area in Derbyshire labelled Erewash 
Field on OSM. I don't know if it 
has been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the current mapping is a 
sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust operate a reserve 
in Derbyshire).
There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs. I 
think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry inspire 
data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always treated them as 
not fully open. Some local authorities have open data showing boundaries of 
LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not coincident. NRs depend on 
either landowner agreement, or willingness to sell land; SSSIs are based on 
conservation importance. And of course, some NRs have geological SSSIs in their 
midst which are much smaller than the NR.
The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks and 
access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start mapping the 
things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but not sufficient 
condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from this point of view 
(including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such as Wappenbury & Ryton, 
the last of which I visited at end of August. Similarly both Wyre Forest & 
Werneth Low which I visited in September lack many paths.
There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for the 
blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details of 
NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks (there 
are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know them 
to be meadows: Dudley wrote something about this in the past.
Regards,
Jerry

On 5 October 2015 at 08:39, Brian Prangle 
mailto:bpran...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi everyone
For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves
Regards
Brian

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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Shaun McDonald]

A number of different boundaries such as SSSIs, national parks, and nature 
reserves are available from 
http://www.geostore.com/environment-agency/WebStore?xml=environment-agency/xml/ogcDataDownload.xml
 


Shaun

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 09:29, SK53  wrote:
> 
> I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite 
> difficult to find actual boundaries.
> 
> Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on 
> Saturday and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is difficult. 
> Similarly, over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging emails with NT 
> Eastern Office about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much new land over 
> the past few years that they dont have a ready to use map of the reserve. 
> Another one is the new RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey, which is the 
> site of a massive managed retreat and new sea wall breach. This was brought 
> to my attention by Liz Scott (@birdmaps). Lastly, I haven't even resolved the 
> bounds of Attenborough NR: the staff now manage the area in Derbyshire 
> labelled Erewash Field  on OSM. I 
> don't know if it has been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the 
> current mapping is a sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife 
> Trust operate a reserve in Derbyshire).
> 
> There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs. I 
> think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry inspire 
> data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always treated them 
> as not fully open. Some local authorities have open data showing boundaries 
> of LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not coincident. NRs depend 
> on either landowner agreement, or willingness to sell land; SSSIs are based 
> on conservation importance. And of course, some NRs have geological SSSIs in 
> their midst which are much smaller than the NR.
> 
> The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks 
> and access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start 
> mapping the things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but 
> not sufficient condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from 
> this point of view (including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such 
> as Wappenbury & Ryton, the last of which I visited at end of August. 
> Similarly both Wyre Forest & Werneth Low which I visited in September lack 
> many paths.
> 
> There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for the 
> blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
> 
> My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details of 
> NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks (there 
> are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
> 
> One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know 
> them to be meadows: Dudley wrote something about this in the past.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> On 5 October 2015 at 08:39, Brian Prangle  > wrote:
> Hi everyone
> 
> For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[SK53]

I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite
difficult to find actual boundaries.

Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on
Saturday and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is
difficult. Similarly, over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging
emails with NT Eastern Office about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much
new land over the past few years that they dont have a ready to use map of
the reserve. Another one is the new RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey,
which is the site of a massive managed retreat and new sea wall breach.
This was brought to my attention by Liz Scott (@birdmaps). Lastly, I
haven't even resolved the bounds of Attenborough NR: the staff now manage
the area in Derbyshire labelled Erewash Field
 on OSM. I don't know if it has
been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the current mapping is a
sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust operate a
reserve in Derbyshire).

There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs. I
think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry
inspire data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always
treated them as not fully open. Some local authorities have open data
showing boundaries of LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not
coincident. NRs depend on either landowner agreement, or willingness to
sell land; SSSIs are based on conservation importance. And of course, some
NRs have geological SSSIs in their midst which are much smaller than the NR.

The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks
and access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start
mapping the things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but
not sufficient condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from
this point of view (including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such
as Wappenbury & Ryton, the last of which I visited at end of August.
Similarly both Wyre Forest & Werneth Low which I visited in September lack
many paths.

There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for the
blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.

My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details
of NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks
(there are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).

One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know
them to be meadows: Dudley wrote something about this in the past.

Regards,

Jerry

On 5 October 2015 at 08:39, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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>
>
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[Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves

Regards

Brian
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