Re: [Talk-GB] RFC: Solar panel mapping in the UK
On Wed, 1 May 2019 at 11:36, Jez Nicholson wrote: > BTW...shouldn't the points on the map reduce when I filter? They should but I'm still working on that feature. -- Russ Garrett r...@garrett.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] RFC: Solar panel mapping in the UK
...using Simon Willison's datasette + your map plugin, I gather. https://repd.ru.dev/repd/repd?solar_mounting_type__exact=Ground_status__exact=Operational_type__exact=Solar+Photovoltaics BTW...shouldn't the points on the map reduce when I filter? On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:07 AM Russ Garrett wrote: > I've made the REPD dataset browsable on a map here, which should make > it easier to correlate with OSM: https://repd.ru.dev/repd/repd > > Russ > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 11:00, SK53 wrote: > > > > I'll quickly add my responses on the thread: > > > > REPD issues. All of Rob's points taken, but we mustn't forget that OSM > data have always been acquired and refined iteratively. Of course data from > REPD has to be taken with a pinch of salt, but at least for now it's very > useful for hunting for missing installations. In practice I've found most > REPD installations relatively easy to resolve (but see below for an > exception). Russ does compute a power output for those sites which don't > have the output explicitly tagged, so there is the potential to compare the > REPD output and a computed value based on area. > > ML & Solar Farms. Tyler Busby has been working to identify rooftop solar > using machine learning. He has a MapRoulette challenge running for Austn > Texas at the moment. I imagine it might be possible to reuse some of his > techniques to identify individual rows of panels within solar farms, which > could improve power estimation from OSM data. > > Sections in Installations. Exceptions, such as single installations > with multiple sites certainly exist too. I recently mapped panels on the > site of the former Asfordby super pit. There are two groups of panels which > a Geograph photographer calls, on the basis of photos of ancillary > electrical plant, Asfordby A and Asfordby B. There are also photos of > Asfordby C. As usual more can be learned from on-the-ground visits, but as > above this is for future refinement. > > Rooftop angles. I had a futile attempt to try & calculate roof angles > from Lidar data. The 1 m resolution doesn't seem to be adequate. Maximum > roof height is more reliable (available for instance via the dataset). > Estimating the height of eaves can be done from Lidar, but it's fairly > fuzzy. I think using rules of thumb for different periods of construction > may be just as fruitful (perhaps 9 foot ceilings for pre-WWII, 8 foot for > interwar housing, and 7 foot 6 thereafter, with 1-1.5 feet between floors). > Counting courses of bricks would give a more precise measure and only needs > to be done for basic ranges of housing. Most local archives are likely to > have architects drawings for houses built as council housing which is > perhaps a third of the total stock. However a basic estimation of eave > level from 5-6 m will not be hugely out. See next bullet for a suitable tag. > > Other tags. After much faffing about, and on Russ' advice, I have now > moved to using location=roof instead of generator:place or > generator:location. This doesn't work if the generator tags are placed on > the building as is the case for some places in the West Midlands, but as > these result in gross over-estimation of likely output I'd regard this as > an interim stage of mapping. I'm still using generator:orientation, but > this may also be more unwieldy than required, and obviously relates to > solar installations only. Modules are tagged generator:solar:modules which > at least unambiguously shows that it relates to the panels, so despite the > unwieldiness something similar for angle would be clear. (As an aside I > don't think we have any UK solar farms with panels mounted on heliostats, > but they certainly exist in Spain, for instance at Almaraz). > > Power tagging. One thing which has become clear is in mapping groups of > panels within a solar farm and retagging the outline as power=plant isthat > the use of generator: and plant: tags is unfortunate. Most of them would > work just fine as they were originally with power. > > Solar arrays vs solar panels. The current tagging largely seems to fail > to distinguish between a large array of solar panels and single panels > consisting of a few modules. I really don't think we want to end up having > to map each group of panels individually so it would be nice to have a > better way of distinguishing them other than location=roof and overall > area. Perhaps less than half the area of an array of panels will be the > actual footprint of panels. Also I'd be unsurprised if some don't map > solar-powered rubbish bins, parking meters, road signs with power=generator > too. > > > > Lastly big thanks to Jez, Dan, and especially Russ for his updates to > OpenInfraMap which really help with the mapping. > > > > Jerry > > > > On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 23:01, Dan S wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> Thanks for the comments on solar panel mapping. (Plenty of mapping > >> happening already: thousands of UK solar panels added to the
Re: [Talk-GB] RFC: Solar panel mapping in the UK
I've made the REPD dataset browsable on a map here, which should make it easier to correlate with OSM: https://repd.ru.dev/repd/repd Russ On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 11:00, SK53 wrote: > > I'll quickly add my responses on the thread: > > REPD issues. All of Rob's points taken, but we mustn't forget that OSM data > have always been acquired and refined iteratively. Of course data from REPD > has to be taken with a pinch of salt, but at least for now it's very useful > for hunting for missing installations. In practice I've found most REPD > installations relatively easy to resolve (but see below for an exception). > Russ does compute a power output for those sites which don't have the output > explicitly tagged, so there is the potential to compare the REPD output and a > computed value based on area. > ML & Solar Farms. Tyler Busby has been working to identify rooftop solar > using machine learning. He has a MapRoulette challenge running for Austn > Texas at the moment. I imagine it might be possible to reuse some of his > techniques to identify individual rows of panels within solar farms, which > could improve power estimation from OSM data. > Sections in Installations. Exceptions, such as single installations with > multiple sites certainly exist too. I recently mapped panels on the site of > the former Asfordby super pit. There are two groups of panels which a > Geograph photographer calls, on the basis of photos of ancillary electrical > plant, Asfordby A and Asfordby B. There are also photos of Asfordby C. As > usual more can be learned from on-the-ground visits, but as above this is for > future refinement. > Rooftop angles. I had a futile attempt to try & calculate roof angles from > Lidar data. The 1 m resolution doesn't seem to be adequate. Maximum roof > height is more reliable (available for instance via the dataset). Estimating > the height of eaves can be done from Lidar, but it's fairly fuzzy. I think > using rules of thumb for different periods of construction may be just as > fruitful (perhaps 9 foot ceilings for pre-WWII, 8 foot for interwar housing, > and 7 foot 6 thereafter, with 1-1.5 feet between floors). Counting courses of > bricks would give a more precise measure and only needs to be done for basic > ranges of housing. Most local archives are likely to have architects drawings > for houses built as council housing which is perhaps a third of the total > stock. However a basic estimation of eave level from 5-6 m will not be hugely > out. See next bullet for a suitable tag. > Other tags. After much faffing about, and on Russ' advice, I have now moved > to using location=roof instead of generator:place or generator:location. This > doesn't work if the generator tags are placed on the building as is the case > for some places in the West Midlands, but as these result in gross > over-estimation of likely output I'd regard this as an interim stage of > mapping. I'm still using generator:orientation, but this may also be more > unwieldy than required, and obviously relates to solar installations only. > Modules are tagged generator:solar:modules which at least unambiguously shows > that it relates to the panels, so despite the unwieldiness something similar > for angle would be clear. (As an aside I don't think we have any UK solar > farms with panels mounted on heliostats, but they certainly exist in Spain, > for instance at Almaraz). > Power tagging. One thing which has become clear is in mapping groups of > panels within a solar farm and retagging the outline as power=plant isthat > the use of generator: and plant: tags is unfortunate. Most of them would work > just fine as they were originally with power. > Solar arrays vs solar panels. The current tagging largely seems to fail to > distinguish between a large array of solar panels and single panels > consisting of a few modules. I really don't think we want to end up having to > map each group of panels individually so it would be nice to have a better > way of distinguishing them other than location=roof and overall area. Perhaps > less than half the area of an array of panels will be the actual footprint of > panels. Also I'd be unsurprised if some don't map solar-powered rubbish bins, > parking meters, road signs with power=generator too. > > Lastly big thanks to Jez, Dan, and especially Russ for his updates to > OpenInfraMap which really help with the mapping. > > Jerry > > On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 23:01, Dan S wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Thanks for the comments on solar panel mapping. (Plenty of mapping >> happening already: thousands of UK solar panels added to the database >> in the past month.) A few small responses: >> >> SOLAR FARMS: >> >> I'll defer to Russ's tagging advice about solar farms: power=plant >> polygon (or sometimes multipolygon) as the outline of a solar farm, >> with power=generator areas contained within it for the blocks of >> panels. Previously, I was
