Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 14 February 2011 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html I've tried to emulate your work, but my fences aren't rendering: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.551978lon=-1.891105zoom=18layers=M what have I missed/ done wrong? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Looks like you fixed it? Perhaps just needs to be rerendered. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Andy Mabbett [mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk] Sent: 16 February 2011 3:50 PM To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap On 14 February 2011 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html I've tried to emulate your work, but my fences aren't rendering: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.551978lon=- 1.891105zoom=18layers=M what have I missed/ done wrong? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3446 - Release Date: 02/15/11 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
In the last few minutes; yes, thanks - I'd used boundary:fence instead of barrier:fence - doh! On 16 February 2011 16:13, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like you fixed it? Perhaps just needs to be rerendered. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Andy Mabbett [mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk] Sent: 16 February 2011 3:50 PM To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap On 14 February 2011 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html I've tried to emulate your work, but my fences aren't rendering: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.551978lon=- 1.891105zoom=18layers=M what have I missed/ done wrong? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 16 February 2011 16:33, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: In the last few minutes; yes, thanks - I'd used boundary:fence instead of barrier:fence - doh! There is a slight problem under mapnik with this use of barrier=* http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3395 At the moment its only true for barrier=hedge. As I mention in the ticket rendering of area barriers is now inconsistent, and at least that inconsistency needs to be resolved. At the moment I think reversion would be best. I've certainly made plenty of use of barrier=wall as a boundary. http://osm.org/go/eutD1wknt-(I must get around to adding postcodes based on the method outlined in the thread) Tangentially, I have had some discussion with another mapper (achadwick) in Oxford about the correct way to tag residential gardens; which lead to another mapnik ticket: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3302 I don't really have a strong position on this, but neither leisure=garden+access=private or landuse=residential+residential=garden, seem satisfactory. I'm not happy with these as extending them to handle other types of garden is really not elegant, e.g.: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80833972 Any thoughts? Cheers, Craig ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 14 February 2011 21:15, Laurence Penney l...@lorp.org wrote: One rambling question for now... As one maps an area in such detail, what kind of principle do you operate when you encounter useful information that can't yet usefully[1] go into OSM for now. The blurry lines between pub, bar, cafe, restaurant and fast food are well-known examples, that I am often tempted to represent using the semicolon. Buildings with multiple uses, such as art centres with galleries, cinemas and cafe-bars, are another common complexity for which multiple nodes feels like a hack that will cause too much information, or at least too much text, on most renderers. And you mention the issue of multiple floors - Bristol's new Cabot Circus shopping centre is a scary mapping prospect on that score alone. Maybe in other words I'm asking: how often and with what methodology do you use the 'note' key? I've had the same problem. As a rule of thumb for the bar/cafe/restaurant scenario I just go with the main use. Most restaurants have bars, most cafes serve some sort of food, we have to decide at some point which kind of amenity it is. For places like art centres I similarly assume that if it's big it probably has a bar or cafe, etc. If you see an arts centre on a map, chances are you know if it has a bar or at least you can ask at reception. The main problem with this is where somebody wants to pull off data for bars and they don't get a really well loved bar in an arts centre. Data, rather than map, users are unlikely to use judgement quite so well for each individual case. The solution would be something like the toilets tag, but that could end up simply turning amenity=cafe into cafe=yes for every amenity tag! Multi-floor buildings are tricky. Most are homes on top of a shop, which I ignore, but if there is for example a separate cafe on top of a shop I'd put a duplicate polygon on top. Now I have two reasons to be glad for the lack of shopping malls round my way! Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 15 Feb 2011, at 11:56, Tom Chance wrote: On 14 February 2011 21:15, Laurence Penney l...@lorp.org wrote: One rambling question for now... As one maps an area in such detail, what kind of principle do you operate when you encounter useful information that can't yet usefully[1] go into OSM for now. The blurry lines between pub, bar, cafe, restaurant and fast food are well-known examples, that I am often tempted to represent using the semicolon. Buildings with multiple uses, such as art centres with galleries, cinemas and cafe-bars, are another common complexity for which multiple nodes feels like a hack that will cause too much information, or at least too much text, on most renderers. And you mention the issue of multiple floors - Bristol's new Cabot Circus shopping centre is a scary mapping prospect on that score alone. Maybe in other words I'm asking: how often and with what methodology do you use the 'note' key? I've had the same problem. As a rule of thumb for the bar/cafe/restaurant scenario I just go with the main use. Most restaurants have bars, most cafes serve some sort of food, we have to decide at some point which kind of amenity it is. We have to... Why? If there are things that are undoubtedly cafe-bars in the world, with its main use depending whether you're a pensioner or a hipster (Bristol has at least 10 such on Gloucester Road alone), why on earth can they not be mapped? Even if Mapnik doesn't like semicolons, it might still accept the string cafe;bar (and bar;cafe), or cafe-bar. In France there are tens of thousands of cafe-bar-tabacs - currently they're mapped with a random value from that lot, which is crazy. What I hate most of all is the loss of information that occurs at the have to decide at some point stage. The note field could save some of this usefully, even if unstructured in form. Sorry for the rant! - L ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 15 February 2011 13:36, Laurence Penney l...@lorp.org wrote: We have to... Why? If there are things that are undoubtedly cafe-bars in the world, with its main use depending whether you're a pensioner or a hipster (Bristol has at least 10 such on Gloucester Road alone), why on earth can they not be mapped? Even if Mapnik doesn't like semicolons, it might still accept the string cafe;bar (and bar;cafe), or cafe-bar. In France there are tens of thousands of cafe-bar-tabacs - currently they're mapped with a random value from that lot, which is crazy. Yes, fair enough. What I hate most of all is the loss of information that occurs at the have to decide at some point stage. The note field could save some of this usefully, even if unstructured in form. I'd appeal against using note for anything other than notes to fellow mappers, e.g. as a reminder to go back and add both cafe/bar uses when we work out the tagging. It's not much use when processing data. Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists ajrlists@... writes: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Great work! How can you tell when you have every postcode and is there some way of checking them against the OS OpenData postcode centroids? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Laurence Penney l...@lorp.org wrote: Even if Mapnik doesn't like semicolons, Urggh, *I* don't like semi-colons, and I'd suggest that any solutions involving them are simply workarounds! Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Hi Lawrence, I tend to try and tag stuff with its primary purpose. If I really do think its more than one then I either split the object up (eg separate retail outlets within one building) or occasionally use a semicolon (like on bus stops to denote the multitude of route_ref's). Anything more complicated I ignore (though I may have made a note) on the basis that the low hanging fruit rule ok! I use the note tag mostly for some piece of information I want to convey to the next person visiting the object. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Laurence Penney [mailto:l...@lorp.org] Sent: 14 February 2011 9:15 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap Stunning work, Andy. I've recently been pointing people to Sutton Coldfield as an example of the standard to which we Bristolians should be aspiring. One rambling question for now... As one maps an area in such detail, what kind of principle do you operate when you encounter useful information that can't yet usefully[1] go into OSM for now. The blurry lines between pub, bar, cafe, restaurant and fast food are well-known examples, that I am often tempted to represent using the semicolon. Buildings with multiple uses, such as art centres with galleries, cinemas and cafe-bars, are another common complexity for which multiple nodes feels like a hack that will cause too much information, or at least too much text, on most renderers. And you mention the issue of multiple floors - Bristol's new Cabot Circus shopping centre is a scary mapping prospect on that score alone. Maybe in other words I'm asking: how often and with what methodology do you use the 'note' key? - L [1] i.e. render, or be useful in other well-known OSM-powered services... or at least be added without confusing simple-minded renderers that can't handle amenity=cafe;bar On 14 Feb 2011, at 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3444 - Release Date: 02/14/11 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 15/02/2011 15:32, Ed Avis wrote: Andy Robinson (blackadder-listsajrlists@... writes: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Great work! How can you tell when you have every postcode and is there some way of checking them against the OS OpenData postcode centroids? I did do a little experiment some time ago (but you do need postcodes assigned to buildings): http://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/5333098864 I was going to write up some more but Chris Hill http://chris-osm.blogspot.com/2011/01/using-gb-postcodes.html beat me to it. Jerry ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Lawrence, One thing I forgot to add. On occasion where it's difficult to add stuff without it conflicting with something else (like a snooker hall over shops for example) I might make closed ways for the retail units and then simply add a node for the snooker hall. Better than ignoring the data completely. In a couple of occasions this week I have tried overlapping closed ways over each other (some shared boundaries some not) to represent diffent uses at different levels. It sort of works in the model ok but it doesn't render well. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Laurence Penney [mailto:l...@lorp.org] Sent: 14 February 2011 9:15 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap Stunning work, Andy. I've recently been pointing people to Sutton Coldfield as an example of the standard to which we Bristolians should be aspiring. One rambling question for now... As one maps an area in such detail, what kind of principle do you operate when you encounter useful information that can't yet usefully[1] go into OSM for now. The blurry lines between pub, bar, cafe, restaurant and fast food are well-known examples, that I am often tempted to represent using the semicolon. Buildings with multiple uses, such as art centres with galleries, cinemas and cafe-bars, are another common complexity for which multiple nodes feels like a hack that will cause too much information, or at least too much text, on most renderers. And you mention the issue of multiple floors - Bristol's new Cabot Circus shopping centre is a scary mapping prospect on that score alone. Maybe in other words I'm asking: how often and with what methodology do you use the 'note' key? - L [1] i.e. render, or be useful in other well-known OSM-powered services... or at least be added without confusing simple-minded renderers that can't handle amenity=cafe;bar On 14 Feb 2011, at 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3444 - Release Date: 02/14/11 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Ed Avis [mailto:e...@waniasset.com] wrote: Sent: 15 February 2011 3:32 PM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists ajrlists@... writes: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Great work! How can you tell when you have every postcode and is there some way of checking them against the OS OpenData postcode centroids? Just by being systematic. If you have Chillly's codepoint postcode layer sitting over BING its easy in the editor to assign the postcodes as you see them when adding buildings. In retail areas things go awry a bit (like many traditional banks seeming to have a unique postcode) but its easy enough to check the main retail chain's websites for their correct addresses to make sure you have used the right postcode and other than for larger buildings mostly even runs of retail units share the same postcode, even in my local shopping mall. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
On 15/02/11 16:42, Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM wrote: I did do a little experiment some time ago (but you do need postcodes assigned to buildings): http://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/5333098864 I was going to write up some more but Chris Hill http://chris-osm.blogspot.com/2011/01/using-gb-postcodes.html beat me to it. I have only loaded the post code areas people have requested. If anyone needs extra areas loading just email me with the postcode area (e.g. HU) you would like to see. These work as overlays in PL2 JOSM from zoom level 15 up. I may have to change this to display from zoom level 16 up. I think this doesn't affect the usefulness because the more detailed levels are most use, but does anyone disagree? -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] B72 is a wrap
Stunning work, Andy. I've recently been pointing people to Sutton Coldfield as an example of the standard to which we Bristolians should be aspiring. One rambling question for now... As one maps an area in such detail, what kind of principle do you operate when you encounter useful information that can't yet usefully[1] go into OSM for now. The blurry lines between pub, bar, cafe, restaurant and fast food are well-known examples, that I am often tempted to represent using the semicolon. Buildings with multiple uses, such as art centres with galleries, cinemas and cafe-bars, are another common complexity for which multiple nodes feels like a hack that will cause too much information, or at least too much text, on most renderers. And you mention the issue of multiple floors - Bristol's new Cabot Circus shopping centre is a scary mapping prospect on that score alone. Maybe in other words I'm asking: how often and with what methodology do you use the 'note' key? - L [1] i.e. render, or be useful in other well-known OSM-powered services... or at least be added without confusing simple-minded renderers that can't handle amenity=cafe;bar On 14 Feb 2011, at 13:31, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2011/02/whats-in-postcode.html Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
